M2e Kaeris

[Flippin' Wyrd George]

10 minutes ago, Fictor said:

Thats the reason, ok, I think it rigth.

Poor argument to take the Child for me, I doesn't finish to apreciate Kaeris mechanics...

The child copies flaming halo on positive to give burning to Howard Langston, then uses low time to trigger action again giving burning on Slate Ridge Mauler.

You now have flying Howard Langston & Mauler that drop a scheme marker at the end of their activation. Very mobile, very good.

 

Or he makes two other models burning and Kaeris draws two cards. AND he can heal with spare AP if needed. Not bad activation for 3 stone investment.

For me, hiring child has has taken Kaeris from a poor never used master to useful in many situations because you have easy cheap way to get the crew going 

[Fictor]

The problem are the limited upgrades, for me the best is G&D, so we doesn't have access to fly with burning, the best option is use to set burning on our models to draw cards, is a cheap activation and can heal, it's nice.

I speak all time in competitive play, I play Kaeris with friends a lot to test combinations, but, for a tournament doesn't are an option for me.

[WWHSD]

20 minutes ago, Fictor said:

The problem are the limited upgrades, for me the best is G&D, so we doesn't have access to fly with burning, the best option is use to set burning on our models to draw cards, is a cheap activation and can heal, it's nice.

And without Purifying Fire Kaeris or Grab and Drop Kaeris doesn't have any sort of protection from Burning, which is kind of funny.

[Adran]

9 minutes ago, Fictor said:

The problem are the limited upgrades, for me the best is G&D, so we doesn't have access to fly with burning, the best option is use to set burning on our models to draw cards, is a cheap activation and can heal, it's nice.

I speak all time in competitive play, I play Kaeris with friends a lot to test combinations, but, for a tournament doesn't are an option for me.

Grab and drop is the upgrade with wings of fire, so if you take that you can make your beaters fly with burning. 

Edit -And Hollingydale is certainly talking competitive play as well, he nearly won the UK nationals last year (If I remember right he would have won if he beat Jamie in the last round), and I know he used Kaeris in some of those games becasue I lost to his kaeris

[Squirrelich]

1 hour ago, Jinn said:

Unfortunately Incinerating Swoop is a Wk action for some reason, meaning the child can't take it.

son of a ...! Thank you for correcting me on this. Excuse me while I go apologize for to a 4 or 5 opponents and contemplate another missed opportunity for Kaeris.

Time to go back to Carlos blowing up a scheme marker again to hand out mass burning before Kaeris activates (needs low cards to cheat down on the duels sometimes though cause you can relent simple duels.)

[retnab]

There is another reason to take the Child: Accelerant. In the late game when you don't need Wings of Fire to go off and are trying to kill your opponent, having the Child walk up and drop an extra Accelerant on the enemy can be very nice.

[Mr Janje]

4 hours ago, Hollingydale said:

She has a (0) on her card to remove burning from all models within 3 and draw as many cards as models that removed burning, up to a maximum of 3.

Ah fair enough!

Don't even play Arcanists, just handy for me to know ^^!

[Danatolievich]

Hello!

I bought Kaeris starter and Carlos Vasquez. Now I'm thinking of buying the Rail golem. is this a good idea?

[Dereikt]

Not particularly, I've found the Rail Golem, like the Ice Golem, is far too dependant on armour as it's only source of protection, and also unreliable as a damage dealer. Defence 4 and ten wounds isn't quite as terrible as the ice Golem's defence 2, but it's still awful for an eleven soulstone model, and even if your opponent isn't ignoring armour, it's still just not a good defence. You always take at least one damage, so it doesn't prevent attrition from small hits, but since it only does a fixed, small amount of reduction it also doesn't help much against the big hits. On offence, it has great potential, but the melee 5 makes it unreliable, especially against high defence targets which can simply cheat in a big card and avoid the hit. On a cheaper model, this wouldn't be so bad, but for eleven soulstones you really need to be able to rely on doing damage.

Also, it doesn't synergise very well with Kaeris. It depends on building up burning for use with locomotion, so it's a big drawback to be losing burning due to grab and drop, and because it ignores damage from burning it can't be healed with purifying fire. So, her support abilities either do nothing or are actually bad.

Mostly though, its the lack of defence that really keeps it from being worth its soulstone cost.

[retnab]

It's a perfectly workable model and it's ideal place is with Kaeris since you can give it plenty of Burning.  As the above post says you shouldn't ever have him start an activation within 6" of Kaeris if she has the Grab & Drop upgrade unless you really need the Flight and don't mind losing all your Burning after its turn, but otherwise the only limitation it has is its low walk (which Locomotion can get around) and its need for 's in Locomotion to really be damage efficient.

[Adran]

Personally I don't like the golem with Kaeris. People look at it, and think great more burning for Kaeris, but its almost never needed for you to put extra burning on the rail golem unless you are using its (0) action to spread burning, rather than Locomotion. Tomes are the limiting factor for locomotion. And Kaeris is very good at removing burning from her own crew as a byproduct, which is bad for the rail golem, because whilkst it rarely needs more than 2-3 burning, it does want to have those. The golem itself I find is a tricky model to rate. It either works as well as a 7 ss model or as well as a 14 ss model, but not inbetween. I  will use it with several other masters, but when I do use it with Kaeris I have to be careful in how I set up. 

[Squirrelich]

I like the Rail Golem more with Kaeris than any other master for what that is worth. The main reason is Kaeris can draw cards to dig for s and then not immediately spend them so they can be spent on the Rail Golem's Locomotion instead. Has little to do with burning shenanigans, though its other (0) is one of the good ways to spread burning to most of the crew for grab and drop turn 1. That being said I rarely take it and when I do it is as a gimmick because, as stated by others, it is not consistent and has a few short comings.
I've had games where I drew 23 cards and gotten 1 tome for locomotion and games where I've gotten 6 tomes in about 18 cards, so be prepared for that swingy-ness cause those locomotion attacks are what it is all about.

[bluepanther]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:31 AM, Hollingydale said:

The child copies flaming halo on positive to give burning to Howard Langston, then uses low time to trigger action again giving burning on Slate Ridge Mauler.

You now have flying Howard Langston & Mauler that drop a scheme marker at the end of their activation. Very mobile, very good.

 

Or he makes two other models burning and Kaeris draws two cards. AND he can heal with spare AP if needed. Not bad activation for 3 stone investment.

For me, hiring child has has taken Kaeris from a poor never used master to useful in many situations because you have easy cheap way to get the crew going 

I'm curious what Kaeris typically does for you in a game? Does she attack, just pass out burning to teammates in order to draw cards, scheme? 

I played my first game with her and I am a bit disappointed in how it went. I felt I got nothing out of her. To be fair it was in part the way I played and I get that but I just don't see what she does in a typical game. As much as people rate Grab and drop I don't see how it is that great of an ability. She is typically only 1 above them stat wise for the duel. Am I missing something, is its main use for moving a model out of position?

Also, flying Howard/Mauler seems cool but what are they doing? I mean the Mauler just moves up to start getting attacked? Howard nimble walks, and attacks something after popping imbued energies? I guess set up is a good scheme for her but I feel like it becomes obvious once you end the activation with the first model and then the opponent can potentially read it easily and get their model out of there. 

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, bluepanther said:

 As much as people rate Grab and drop I don't see how it is that great of an ability. She is typically only 1 above them stat wise for the duel. Am I missing something, is its main use for moving a model out of position?

 

I think there’s two parts to why Grab & Drop is a highly rated upgrade for Kaeris. 

The first is giving her crew members Flight and free scheme markers. This is more valuable in scheme pools that require a lot of scheme markers but the added mobility from Flight add a lot of possible charge lanes for your models.

The second is the movement from the Grab and Drop attack. The 5 inch place on an enemy is nice and 2 place for Kaeris works out to be about 8 inches of displacment when she’s targetting a 30mm model.The damage is secondary though it does have the advantage of ignoring Df/Wp triggers and there’s not much that gets  flips to Ht.

[bluepanther]

4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I think there’s two parts to why Grab & Drop is a highly rated upgrade for Kaeris. 

The first is giving her crew members Flight and free scheme markers. This is more valuable in scheme pools that require a lot of scheme markers but the added mobility from Flight add a lot of possible charge lanes for your models.

The second is the movement from the Grab and Drop attack. The 5 inch place on an enemy is nice and 2 place for Kaeris works out to be about 8 inches of displacment when she’s targetting a 30mm model.The damage is secondary though it does have the advantage of ignoring Df/Wp triggers. 

So she just gives friendly models burning all game? I used the child to give burning which helped. Just wondering about her activation in general. Does she pick off small models?

The game was ply and afterwards I realized I should used grab and drop to get model back in my crew that I could just sit there and ply. 

[Jinn]

47 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

The damage is secondary though it does have the advantage of ignoring Df/Wp triggers and there’s not much that gets  flips to Ht.

Also, models with flight take no damage from it. So don't try any aerial duels against Zipp.

[KingCrow]

Question about the Grab and Drop: if you place the model on a piece of terrain that cannot hold the model and so the model would fall farther, does it take the additional falling damage? 

I bet there's some rule in the placement rules that stops it from working like that, eh? Something that says it has to be placed in a legal spot or some such?

[WWHSD]

14 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

Question about the Grab and Drop: if you place the model on a piece of terrain that cannot hold the model and so the model would fall farther, does it take the additional falling damage? 

I bet there's some rule in the placement rules that stops it from working like that, eh? Something that says it has to be placed in a legal spot or some such?

Do you mean you drop them with half their base hanging off of a Ht3 building?

 

As far as I know there’s no rule that covers that. Some people play by “if it fits, it sits” but that’s just going to be local custom tgat fills an apparent gap in the rules.

[KingCrow]

1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

Do you mean you drop them with half their base hanging off of a Ht3 building?

 

As far as I know there’s no rule that covers that. Some people play by “if it fits, it sits” but that’s just going to be local custom tgat fills an apparent gap in the rules.

Aye, that is exactly what I mean.  Also, if you were to encounter this, would you consider it an unsportsmanlike move or a legit strategy? if legal, I'd almost consider this a good strategy as you're taking advantage of the terrain and such.  But it's also something that I could see as bending the rules and is looked down upon even if it is legal.

[solkan]

50 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

Aye, that is exactly what I mean.  Also, if you were to encounter this, would you consider it an unsportsmanlike move or a legit strategy? if legal, I'd almost consider this a good strategy as you're taking advantage of the terrain and such.  But it's also something that I could see as bending the rules and is looked down upon even if it is legal.

Consider this:

  Suppose you picked the model up, held it a foot above the table, said "I'm placing it here" and let go of the model.  Now, do the same thing and place the model where half of its base is physically supported but it's going to topple over when released.

Is someone who does that ever going to play another game?

 

[KingCrow]

17 minutes ago, solkan said:

Consider this:

  Suppose you picked the model up, held it a foot above the table, said "I'm placing it here" and let go of the model.  Now, do the same thing and place the model where half of its base is physically supported but it's going to topple over when released.

Is someone who does that ever going to play another game?

 

The difference is that the base is still making contact with the terrain, it is just the placement is off enough to displace the model.  Thank you for your help but the question has been answered in a very thorough way in another post. 😁 

For those curious about the answer, the answer was that since the model is placed and the model is not moved, fall damage cannot occur. Fall damage only occurs during movement and a place is not a movement.  

[Fetid Strumpet]

I’m not seeing it even if it was a move.

Im puzzled so if you could explain, why would any one consider they would mechanically fall if any part of there base still overlapped the elevated terrain?

[WWHSD]

5 hours ago, KingCrow said:

Aye, that is exactly what I mean.  Also, if you were to encounter this, would you consider it an unsportsmanlike move or a legit strategy? if legal, I'd almost consider this a good strategy as you're taking advantage of the terrain and such.  But it's also something that I could see as bending the rules and is looked down upon even if it is legal.

If I were to encounter this I’d ask where the rules say that having a base overhanging a ledge means that the model falls. 

I’d also point out that the Grab and Drop ability is pretty clear on how long the fall you flip damage for is. There’s no real provision for adding additional height to this.

[bluepanther]

You can’t place a model somewhere it will fall. That’s literally the same a placing a model in the air as mentioned above. If it is climbable terrain you could in theory place them halfway up the terrain but that still doesn’t mean they fall. The FAQ mentions that a model can be halfway up a building at the end of a movement. 

12 hours ago, WWHSD said:

If I were to encounter this I’d ask where the rules say that having a base overhanging a ledge means that the model falls. 

I’d also point out that the Grab and Drop ability is pretty clear on how long the fall you flip damage for is. There’s no real provision for adding additional height to this.

You don’t flip damage for G&D. It’s based off the initial duel. You can’t add height to the “fall” cause it’s a place effect. You place them and then they suffer damage as if they had fallen.

You could place them one top of a building so that when they activate they’d have to take falling damage to get off the building. 

[KingCrow]

3 hours ago, bluepanther said:

You could place them one top of a building so that when they activate they’d have to take falling damage to get off the building. 

Going with this thought on placement effects, and the fact that Malifaux is measured from top-down view, Kaeris wouldn't have to be on the same level as the enemy model upon placement, right? Just as long as she is 2 inches away from the model in the top-down view.  Or does she have to be within the 2 inches in all ranges/planes?