Spike0738 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Do people tend to put many upgrades on characters like Firestarter, Johan or Mechanical Rider??? I know some people really like using Warding Runes on Firestarter, but have people had a lot of success doing so? What are some of people's favorites to run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I only put IE on the Firestarter when I need an extra AP for Deliver a Message, Entourage, maybe Bodyguard. Otherwise I think SS have better uses. Same goes for Johan: IE or Bleeding Edge Tech goes on him sometimes, but it's never a priority. In my eyes both are expendable models to some degree, so generally I don't like to spend extra SS on them.I had never before put any upgrades on the Rider, never thought it necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Yeah, I will only occasionally stick Imbued Energies on the Firestarter. One of the local players here took Imbued Protection a few times, but it was never that noticeable of an improvement (he still died every time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Arcanists have some truly great upgrades, but this often leads to a danger of us 'over-upgrading' models. Imbued Protection is a real point sink if used inappropriately. As others have said sometimes IE or BET on The Firestarter or Johan. Personally I've never seen a need to upgrade the Mech Rider, it's great enough naked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah, I will only occasionally stick Imbued Energies on the Firestarter. One of the local players here took Imbued Protection a few times, but it was never that noticeable of an improvement (he still died every time).I rather like Imbued Protection against heavily targeted models, but I understand the point sink it can be... Defense 7 is rather strong. I like making the opponent use more AP than they normally would for certain models. Firestarter, maybe not, but certainly on guys like The Captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Played a 2 day 5 game tournament this year where the middle 3 games all had assasinate. Kaeris was df7 all three games and didn't take a scratch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 For other models Imbued energies can get spammed but other than that I don't regularly take any other upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I like Imbued Energies on both Johanna and the Firestarter. Johanna gets it by default because of her (2) actions, Firestarter gets it for turn one plant explosives, turn two deliver the message, or some other specific (scheme related) purpose. Having four ap on a model with flight is great for so many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Tried the Rail Worker and Union Miner in a Kaeris list yesterday. I really have fallen in love with these models, with a Kaeris crew... They bring so much to the table with their burning potential, especially when you can cause dmg and not remove a model's burning. For 5ss, you really can't complain about the Rail Worker. He has Armor 1, a great defensive trigger AND H2K. Rail Workers have essentially replaced the Metal Gamin(s) in my list. I also find they are very useful against Rezzers, as you can drop Scrap markers on death instead. Union Miners are less cool, but I find having the extra burning potential and the cool scheme drop ability they have to be very useful at times. I find myself just summoning Fire/Metal Gamin with the Mechanical Rider, instead of taking them in the main list, if I really need to spread more burning or running / defend schemes. Edited December 18, 2015 by Spike0738 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 i do like Kaeris damage output vs ressers. get equal on a draw and they say thats triple negative, then you dont care, put burning on and cast again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I haven't seen this mentioned much at all but does anyone recommend using the (0) Truth In Flame much? I was thinking it'd be very easy to use turns 1 and 2 with the Rail Golem using (0) Vent Boiler before Kaeris activates for a stronger hand, has anyone tried this? I'm thinking specifically of trying it in a crew like: Kaeris (Arcane Reservoir, Blinding Flame, G&D) Eternal Flame Firestarter (Imbued Energies) Rail Golem 2x Gunsmiths 2x Rail Workers Seems like a decent mix of defense and offense, with a bit of ranged in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 Probably ok turn 1 but turn 2 onwards you really want the rail golem to have burning and be able to use locomotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 I got my Kaeris box yesterday so hope to be getting in some games with her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted December 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 On 12/26/2015 at 4:34 PM, bertmac said: Probably ok turn 1 but turn 2 onwards you really want the rail golem to have burning and be able to use locomotion. I'm with Bertmac on this. For turn one it's a worthwhile play, after that I'd avoid it. It's something I've used a few times and it's not without it's uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordid Strumpet Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 51 minutes ago, mythicFOX said: I'm with Bertmac on this. For turn one it's a worthwhile play, after that I'd avoid it. It's something I've used a few times and it's not without it's uses. Is this truth in flame and the rail golem specifically or just truth in flame generally? I'm liking the (theoretical) idea of having a few fire gamin hang out near Kaeris taking advantage of powered by flame and shooting stuff for extra burning. Then keep the Malifaux Child nearby as well for 3 burning models. Of course this is assuming there's no danger of blasts hitting that group. Alternatively, have the arcane effigy hang out near her too. Of course she doesn't damage all that often but I think the condition removal is far more valuable than the 0-action burn. And a walk 5 hard to kill Df6 significant minion is never a bad thing if there is a need for interacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think I would rather take Johana over the effigy with Kaeris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 hour ago, Sybarite said: I think I would rather take Johana over the effigy with Kaeris Isn't the effigy only 4 points? I'm confused how sacrificing a 4pt model in your list will make room for Johana/Johan. It would seem like you would replace a Gamin or 5pt model for the Effigy instead... I agree that Johan is a much better model overall, but a 4pt Effigy is a damn good buy for Kaeris, with the condition removal AND +1 Burning or discarding. Especially if you have a Mechanical Rider in the list to summon Fire Gamin. I find myself using far less upgrades with a Kaeris crew, to make up the difference in points, but that's just personal preference. The only problem I have with the Effigy is the 2" condition removal is very situational, since most of my Kaeris crews are fairly mobile and not sticking within 2" of anything friendly. The 8" +1 burning or Discard boost is fantastic though... The ability to use Immolate and still add an additional +1, is damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 On 12/26/2015 at 10:17 AM, retnab said: I haven't seen this mentioned much at all but does anyone recommend using the (0) Truth In Flame much? I was thinking it'd be very easy to use turns 1 and 2 with the Rail Golem using (0) Vent Boiler before Kaeris activates for a stronger hand, has anyone tried this? I'm thinking specifically of trying it in a crew like: Kaeris (Arcane Reservoir, Blinding Flame, G&D) Eternal Flame Firestarter (Imbued Energies) Rail Golem 2x Gunsmiths 2x Rail Workers Seems like a decent mix of defense and offense, with a bit of ranged in there too. Eternal Flame is the worst totem in the game, IMO... I've used it once and will probably never ever use it again. I personally wouldn't use 2x Gunsmiths, only because Johan or a December Acolyte would probably be much more effective for various schemes than a 2nd gunsmith would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 6 minutes ago, Spike0738 said: Eternal Flame is the worst totem in the game, IMO... I've used it once and will probably never ever use it again. I don't know. It faces some pretty tough competition from Poltergeist, Governor's Proxy and Mouse... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 2 minutes ago, Myyrä said: I don't know. It faces some pretty tough competition from Poltergeist, Governor's Proxy and Mouse... At least Mouse has a pull and a potential heal... Not to mention he's got H2K. At the very best case scenario, Eternal Flame is bottom 3. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breng77 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yeah I have a hard time declaring a 2 point model the worst totem I the game. a 2 point activation is rarely bad. That said I never really take totems very often with most masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 3 minutes ago, Spike0738 said: At least Mouse has a pull and a potential heal... Not to mention he's got H2K. At the very best case scenario, Eternal Flame is bottom 3. lol Eternal Flame has a heal too and it can immediately resolve burning on target with pretty high Ca... Not to mention it has armor +3 and costs only 2ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 1 minute ago, Myyrä said: Eternal Flame has a heal too and it can immediately resolve burning on target with pretty high Ca... Not to mention it has armor +3 and costs only 2ss. Yeah, it has nothing on the Proxy in pure badness. It's not even half bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I just find the Eternal Flame completely useless, and can easily work against you if you don't put in effort to create a list that it can work with... I'd rather put Imbued Energies or another 2pt upgrade on someone and just leave it out. A major problem with Eternal Flame is that it has no offensive capabilities if it can't keep up with Firestarter or Kaeris... So it's activation is fairly predictable and the model itself can be easily ignored. With no charge, and no Ml action it can't even keep someone engaged with that +3 armor. I also prefer to use G&D for scheme stuff, so I'm not benefiting at all from the lack of immunity to burning. I would rather take IE on something for kill schemes, since the instant burning can be done with Rail Workers too, while keeping the burning stat on the model. I mean, I'm sure it's not the actual worst in the game, but it definitely is for me personally. I find it hard to take an insignificant model, that can actualyl work against me if I'm not planning for it. I don't like planning around an insignificant totem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike0738 Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 29 minutes ago, Breng77 said: Yeah I have a hard time declaring a 2 point model the worst totem I the game. a 2 point activation is rarely bad. That said I never really take totems very often with most masters. Hmm, Idk... I use totems often enough. Especially with Ironsides, Ramos and Rasputina. I also find Ophelia's Young Lacroix and Som'er's Skeeters to be very useful. Certainly, I don't always do it, but I think EF is the only one that I actively avoid using at all costs. In his list above, Gunsmiths and Rail Workers wont benefit from Eternal Flame at all, and he's using G&D so the Rail Golem can't even heal with the totem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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