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How much value do you guys generally get out of a Rat Catcher? Personally, I mainly use his actions to walk, interact while engaged, 0 action and moldy cheese a rat. Or focus and moldy cheese a rat king to get that 8 to reach the TN. I don't usually attack with him. That being said...

I've recently been trying to focus on charging with rat catchers but generally don't find it all that useful. Automatic triggers are nice, but starting at Ml 5 isn't that reliable. Although a neat trick against Gremlins which squeal is that if you do Catch and Release trigger and place the rat right behind them, they can't squeal away and make you waste your second charge attack. Catch and Release is triggered on success whereas squeal is triggered after damage has been dealt, and since our trigger is automatic, they may waste a card in their hand to get their trigger for nothing. Rusted Shut trigger is nice. Quarantine trigger is what it is. If you charge a model with blighted two on turn two (you just have to blight somebody once on turn one), you can do minimum 4 damage on a charge- assuming both attacks from the charge hit. Meh.

So, pretty much, I don't see why Rat Catchers are rare 2.

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I haven't much used Rat Catchers, when I have it's been as emergency scheme runners, with their ability to interact while engaged, rather than because I planned to have them. What you can do is charge a Blighted model with a Rat King, get your two attacks, then sacrifice the Rat King for a Rat Catcher and rat. With Armour +1 from the rat (Armour +2 if you manage to summon a rat by attacking the enemy model) they're pretty durable.

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I think rat catchers are great, they are the kind of schemes you "don't mind" throwing in the thick of it. They can deal +2 damage on a trigger to blighted models. hey summon rats by enemies dieing and or hitting them, are kind of durable with up to armor 3 AND they can reactivate your winged plague. And a winged plague with walk 6 and 4 Ap is alot.

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  • 2 weeks later...
53 minutes ago, Cedar said:

I have a question - how to face hoffmann or ramos as hamelin? I have bad experience against them and I'm looking for crew capable of winning against them.

It depends on schemes and table (shooting lanes etc.)

I would try to focus on things like:
- Blasts from Lazarus or Specialist + obey from Hamelin to walk one model out of cover
- Multiple DF duels and Scrap eating from A&D

Both things are SS expensive. Try one at time ;)
Ronin and Bishop will be good choice also, both can ignore armor.


I am not good Hamelin player, so it's probably not best solution


 

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1 hour ago, Cedar said:

I have a question - how to face hoffmann or ramos as hamelin? I have bad experience against them and I'm looking for crew capable of winning against them.

Ignoring armor annoys me but removing my innate suits really ruins my day and those of my stompybots, and I hear Outcasts are rich in suit removing models. Haaaaate librarians.

Naturally, I'm more interested in hearing what they did to you....;)

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Abominations strip suits and (0) actions from models within 2", and Librarians (and Hannah) strip suits in a 4" aura.

Ronin ignore armour, Bishop can ignore armour. Taelor and Johan have relic hammers that get ++ damage flips against Constructs. Taelor can also ignore armour and hard to kill with her :tome trigger, although it isn't built in. We certainly have the tools to cause problems for a Hoffman crew, although they can obviously do the same to us. Hamelin's no-charge aura from The Piper can keep enemies away, and if you have the stones Nix with Hollow can provide some protection from blasts, auras, and pulses. If I recall correctly there aren't a huge amount of Ca attacks in a typical Hoffman crew, so Nix's incorporeal might be useful.

It's likely a typical Hamelin crew will also quickly outnumber a Hoffman crew. As I've said I like summoning Rat Kings and I usually have about two or three on the board by the end of the game. They're probably not that effective against models with a lot of armour, but free models never hurt.

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I played against vary typical Ramos crew (Ramos box, Lazarus, Toolkit), And even with Taelor/Johan/Ronins i lost due to buffs from Arcing screen and very high damage profile. In case of Hoffman, Power loop is very hard to deal with, same goes for new Guardian or Peacekeeper and Ryle is just killing machine against Rats. I have no idea how to face them - maybe I'll try Hans for his armor piercing shots.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Anyone else having trouble with Gremlins? I'm thinking about running Scout the Field on a Specialist, outactivate them turn 1, then obey walk the Specialist 3 times with Hamelin and focus shoot a slop hauler on the Specialist's activation. Cheat in a severe to kill him and have two blasts. The problem with this idea is that the Specialist will probably die at the start of turn two since the Gremlin player will probably have Trixiebelle. 

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15 hours ago, Virtus said:

Anyone else having trouble with Gremlins? I'm thinking about running Scout the Field on a Specialist, outactivate them turn 1, then obey walk the Specialist 3 times with Hamelin and focus shoot a slop hauler on the Specialist's activation. Cheat in a severe to kill him and have two blasts. The problem with this idea is that the Specialist will probably die at the start of turn two since the Gremlin player will probably have Trixiebelle. 

If you only want to kill slop hauler, you can take Hans with "Scout the field" and someone with upgrade "I pay better", and kill slop hauler in first activation. (you need 2 x focus to take care of hard cover)

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47 minutes ago, Jafar said:

If you only want to kill slop hauler, you can take Hans with "Scout the field" and someone with upgrade "I pay better", and kill slop hauler in first activation. (you need 2 x focus to take care of hard cover)

Not really, a single Focus will negate all cover 

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Just now, Seadhna said:

Could you point me at the rules that say you can't?

I was not clear and exact. Hard cover gives :-fate to attack and dmg flip. If you use 1 focus, it will be not easy to make straight dmg flip. In case of 2 focuses, you can easily cheat dmg if you won attack duel.

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I have a question on Lure Malifaux Citizen. If I was to focus or soulstone for a plus flip and hit the Mesmerize trigger, would the trigger retain the modifier? I'm assuming yes because Mesmerize states to take "this" action again and "this" action had a modifier.

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Don't you only count the suit of the card you actually choose to use for the summon? I saw people talk about flipping double criticals at some point and the same question popped into my head.

If you flip a 10:mask and a 10:tome you still only count one or the other, not both. That's why you have to burn a soulstone for the second suit.

If you flip a 13:ram and a 10:ram on a model with Critical Strike you still only count one of the :ram for the +1 damage, any others having to come from either being built in, stoned for, or coming from an ability like Bishop's Adaptive.

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16 minutes ago, Freman said:

Don't you only count the suit of the card you actually choose to use for the summon? I saw people talk about flipping double criticals at some point and the same question popped into my head.

If you flip a 10:mask and a 10:tome you still only count one or the other, not both. That's why you have to burn a soulstone for the second suit.

If you flip a 13:ram and a 10:ram on a model with Critical Strike you still only count one of the :ram for the +1 damage, any others having to come from either being built in, stoned for, or coming from an ability like Bishop's Adaptive.

I understand that. Please allow me to rephrase where I'm coming from.

Say you are on a turn you want to make two Stolen. You look at your hand and only see one card which is 8+ with either a mask or a tome. Every other card is less than the 8 required to hit the TN. You aren't worried about flipping into the black joker for whatever reason. So you tell yourself that you can focus before you 0 action, since that will be your only time to do so. You declare using focus for Lure Malifaux Citizen and soulstone for the suit that you need and try your luck at flipping well. You aren't worried about missing the Mesmerize trigger because you have the card required in hand to get it. Say you don't flip lucky, so you use the card in your hand to get Mesmerize and now you have no 8+ card in hand left for this extra action. Here lies my question. Would the focus I just used carry over to flip into any 8+ required, or am I supposed to save the focus before and declare using it now?

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Focused +1: This model may remove this Condition when declaring an Action to
gain a number of + to the Action’s duel and damage flip equal to the value of the
Focused Condition removed.

When the trigger tells you to take the action again, it is a new action. Focus does not apply to any new actions generated by the action. 

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2 hours ago, Adran said:

Focused +1: This model may remove this Condition when declaring an Action to
gain a number of + to the Action’s duel and damage flip equal to the value of the
Focused Condition removed.

When the trigger tells you to take the action again, it is a new action. Focus does not apply to any new actions generated by the action. 

I wasn't sure if it was a new action because it says to take "this" action again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Played my first game with Hamelin today

 

Used Killjoy bomb, Emissary and Nix as my primary models

Killjoy did mostly fuck-all (he only hit once off an Oath Keepered charge on Hannah, but managed to kill her Turn 2, only to die from A&D)

Nix one-shot Lazarus turn 5 with Bleeding Disease

Rat Kings and Rat Catchers were boss and fun to play

 

Probably shouldn't pick Claim Jump in Corner Deployment if I ever want my Rat Kings to do something valuable

All in all, was an enjoyable game

looks like the rat engine doesn't really slow things down if you know what you're doing

 

any advice on using Hamelin himself?

I ran him with Piper, Infectuous Melodies and Survivalist, but he spent the entire game summoning Stolen, Walking and failing Obeys because the enemy had already drained my hand. He still managed to kill a half-dead Leviticus at the top of Turn 4 with his staff though.

 

Also, any advice on using the Killjoy bomb? I've found it hard to choose proper targets (well, my opponent had Leviticus, Hannah, Lazarus and A&D, I figured Hannah was the best shot)

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I think that a rule of thumb is "don't charge anything that will require more than two successful minimum damage hits to kill" because unless your hand is good you can't even guarantee that. Also Killjoy is rather squishy when he doesn't have an opportunity to heal.

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17 minutes ago, Freman said:

I think that a rule of thumb is "don't charge anything that will require more than two successful minimum damage hits to kill" because unless your hand is good you can't even guarantee that. Also Killjoy is rather squishy when he doesn't have an opportunity to heal.

so basically, don't use Killjoy

i wouldn't want 12SS to only be able to kill 8Wd worth of unarmoured models

he's still a great FfM model, though

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