Hamelin Tactica: Drown them in Rats

[Patzer]

A couple of questions for all you Hamliners out there.

 

How do you play Hamelin in Reckoning?

 

If Make Them Suffer is in the pool (it is your opponents favorite for scheme arguments sake so you know she will take it) does it changes your game plan?

[IntereoVivo]

I love Hamelin in Reckonning. I run him with Taylor, Friekorps Libby, Convict Gunslingers, Trappers, Killjoy and the like. I take no rats and only summon Stolen when I am feeling pretty safe to turn them into Rat Kings. Then I use Obey/Pipes to smash my opponent into oblivion while holding the center of the board. I do try and play the denial game (eating scheme markers) and try to get my own schemes, but mostly I focus on winning the team fight.

 

When Make Them Suffer is on the board I tend to run a more standard Hamelin list and work to avoid allowing my opponent to kill my models. Things like Infectious Melodies are pretty good for denying them the kill in a pinch and Hamelin has a lot of ways to recycle models.

[Patzer]

I love Hamelin in Reckonning. I run him with Taylor, Friekorps Libby, Convict Gunslingers, Trappers, Killjoy and the like. I take no rats and only summon Stolen when I am feeling pretty safe to turn them into Rat Kings. Then I use Obey/Pipes to smash my opponent into oblivion while holding the center of the board. I do try and play the denial game (eating scheme markers) and try to get my own schemes, but mostly I focus on winning the team fight.

 

When Make Them Suffer is on the board I tend to run a more standard Hamelin list and work to avoid allowing my opponent to kill my models. Things like Infectious Melodies are pretty good for denying them the kill in a pinch and Hamelin has a lot of ways to recycle models.

 

In Reckoning, are you keeping your distance with Hamelin in order to not summon any rats with his aura?

 

Malifaux Child could be nice for an extra Obey and some healing if you are not using the Stolen that heavily.

 

Infectious might be nice when MTS is around for sure. What do you mean by "work to avoid allowing my opponent to kill my models"? My guess is that you are referring to create angles, like hiding behind bigger models, where the opponent cannot get to your puny models easily (and might over extend while go after them).

[Ausplosions]

In the large number of games I've played with Hamelin in M2E I think I've given up a total of 3 Reckoning points to my opponent. It's not as big a problem as it appears. Hamelin sacrifices more of his models than an opponent Kill s I've found.

[IntereoVivo]

Yeah, creating angles, spreading myself out and other things like that.

 

Hamelin doesn't need to worry about rat creation so much as generally by that time your opponent has bigger problems then trying to kill rats.

[nishi]

propably just a stupid question of mine. But if i sacrifice Stolen up near Hamelin/Rat Catcher i do get 1 Rat out of Voracious Rats, and 2 Rats out of Inevitable Fate, so 3 in total?

[PraetorDragoon]

propably just a stupid question of mine. But if i sacrifice Stolen up near Hamelin/Rat Catcher i do get 1 Rat out of Voracious Rats, and 2 Rats out of Inevitable Fate, so 3 in total?

 

No, Voracious Rats only summons rats when something is Killed. Inevitable Fate sacrifices the Stolen. Sacrifcing isn't the same thing as killing in malifaux. 

[Patzer]

Have anyone got any use from the Tools of The Tyrant upgrade? I have tried twice, with very mixed feelings. The aura has been really good, especially in the game of Squatter's I used it in. The triggers for the Blackstaff have never done much for me. My main reason for this is that I don't like to have Hamelin in combat with multiple enemies. I find that kind of play doesn't play to Hamelin's strengths at all. It is a lot more useful to separate one enemy model and drag them into your crew. Hamelin sport a laughable damage track so he needs to get that target reach Blighted +3, which grants additional damage from the Black Death trigger. That can be done by brining the Plague upgrade or using the Taint trigger on the staff. So I am already using two triggers which I feel Hamelin needs to be effective.

 

My 2 cents In short. The aura is nice, while the triggers doesn't seem to bring enough to justify it being a 2ss upgrade. Especially if you compare it to Hamelin's other two 2ss upgrades.

[Rathnard]

I'm surprised people haven't rated Iggy all that highly. I like him mainly for the Incite, which adds immensely to the activation control - target something useless that's already activated and you can then make them your opponent's first activation. Burning is okay (it can get around an enemy Frame For Murder Scheme) but the -2Wp Aura should be great for Hamelin as well, especially if you're trying to get his Bleeding Disease spell off. 

 

I gave him a run in my first Hamelin game against Kadeton (with Tara) last week. I lost (lack of experience with him, plus I went for a Blight-focused crew), but Iggy proved to be the star of the show. Granted his incite is much more powerful against Tara's crew, but it left me convinced that he's well worth taking with Hamelin. 

 

In any case, thanks for the thread. It's been a good read and has given me some good ideas on how best to use Ham-dog next time I pull him out.

[Patzer]

Iggy is great. Paired up with Candy makes up for a half decent Pandora. Incite can be really strong, as well as his other (0). Martyr is a great list line defence for keeping Kade and Candy safe. For 5ss, he is a bargain!

[hypoking]

Couple thoughts on Hamelin following a tourney yesterday.

 

Dude is an absurd tank. I know it has been mentioned before here but it kind of bears repeating. At one point Lilith was standing next to him and swinging for the fences and my only real concern was if she was going to start bleeding over everything. Took survivalist every match, don't anticipate ever not taking it. The ability to use a zero to drop enough pseudo health on the table to absorb a couple of activations is probably his best feature. With a couple of rats and maybe the wretch Hamelin's capable of holding down a flank.

 

Hamelin's a master of moving the goal post. The opponent starts thinking that they have to deal with the stolen you just brought in before they cough over everything and convert to rats. So they send something to kill them, and you kill whatever that was and because the stolen were still giving you rats anyway your opponent has to deal with the new rat king. So they spend an activation attacking the thing, while you're inconspicuously ginning up the next one mind you, so you just have the damaged king gobble up a few pals and get back over four wounds or it takes a few half heated swings and converts it into a rat catcher. Then after a few turns of attrition against the swarm Hamelin and the kiddies start vaporizing models with bleeding disease. You can take this a step further if you want to bring up Hollow. If your opponent suspects you're going to be bringing Hamelin they might try to pack in some aoe but for two points you can just shrug and say it as wasted effort within a fairly large radius. The upgrade's definitely worth thinking about even if you don't plan on using dogs.

 

Ronin seem particularly good with Hamelin. He burns through his stones at a consistent rate thanks to mesmerize so really anyway to get them back mid game tends to help. Their own charge denial mechanic also means you can keep up the denial game and continue to frustrate your opponents even from outside of Hamelin's bubble. Great models for being wherever Hamelin isn't.

 

Crooligan's are great objective runners but outside of stake a claim I think void wretches would fill the disposable scheme piece slot better.

 

I'm in love with rat kings. Thanks to one ap charges they get to be relevant as soon as they come in and get an appreciable damage spike out of the odd obey. Remarkable pieces for engaging the usual cheap marker droppers and trivializing their impact on the game if they don't just kill them outright.

 

Fair bit of bookkeeping involved but honestly that's the hardest part about playing him.

[lusciousmccabe]

Don't forget about the Rat King's gnaw ability. Your opponent breaks away from your mass of stuff to drop some scheme marker and swing the game? Oh, they're just gone now, with Infectious melodies you can gobble them up from 20" away even.

 

Moving the goalposts indeed.

[Patzer]

Hypoking, thanks for the report. What did you use for beaters and how do you feel about Hamelin's own offensive capability?

[hypoking]

Not so much beaty as grindy for the most part. I brought in Taelor in the last round but that had more to do with playing ressers.

 

Hamelin didn't do a lot of damage himself. Spent most of his ap walking around and shouting at various things to do various things. There was a moment in game two where he flailed at Kaeris a bit but felt more annoyed than anything when he had to do his own attacking.

[Virtus]

Any tips on which Lost models to hire with Hamelin with the Sewer King upgrade? As it stands right now, I have three Crooligans in a 50 SS game, and am considering hiring a fourth, but is it worth it? Should I hire a different Lost model to max out on Iniltration (Lost), or just save those soulstones for rats and such?

[EnternalVoid]

There are two a couple other decent losts models to consider but two that have stood out from playing against Hamelin have been Bady Kade and Iggy.  Kade is a pretty cheat high damage model set up correctly.  He also had a solid defense and a lowish but still useful Lure.  His biggest problem is a lowish Wd count with no defensive abilities outside a mid to low range Manipulative.  Iggy on the other hand is a cheap enforcer, odd attack as it does no actual damage but can really stack burning.  His biggest benefit in my opinion is the addition of Incite as it can really throw your opponent's plans for a loop.  Also if you take him and Kade he can use Martyr to take a wound for Kade to extend his lifespan a little.  His Throwing a Fit and Playing with Fire can also throw some enemy plans for a loop too.

 

 

I am not sure if you need 3 or more Crooligans unless you really have alot of Schemes that use markers.  Having even 1 or 2 might be enough.  So it realy depends on the Strategy, scheme pool, and what else you plan to take.

[lusciousmccabe]

I played a few games with Candy in a Hamelin crew today and was quite happy with how she performed. I mostly wanted her for healing because I had a lot of Hard to Kill models but the range is so short on it she only healed herself but she was pretty good for tanking and locking models down with her massive engagement range so I'll definitely use her again.

 

Kade I used as well but he was less useful because the scenario was reckoning and I was worried about him getting killed easily. He did manage to gank a witchling stalker that Hamelin pulled over with pipes while maintaining his manipulative though, and his really long charge range kept my opponent wary when moving his ranged attackers, so he did fairly alright I suppose.

 

I don't think maxing out the availability of lost models is a priority, depending on the scenario it could be worth it just for a Crooligan or two or Candy on her own. The (0) it gives you is also pretty nice for reckoning since you can use it to sacrifice your own weakened models to deny your opponent points.

[Thegg]

Hi folks, getting into the game after a huge break from any mini or card games (7 years or so?) Restarted MtG, warhammer is being reborn at the store I play at, but we are looking at a skirmish game and for me this seems to be the ticket.

I was (and to a bit still am) a bit unsure where to start. I really liked levi the best out of the starter boxes I could see, but overall outcasts seemed pretty meh. Neverborn seemed to be awesome, starting Pandora and then getting the dreamer, teddy and doppelganger was the plan. Then I started research on the other masters than have no plastic kits. While the Neverborn dont seem to get much, the Outcast on my eyes go from only having levi as a cool master to being awesome with tara, jack, levi and the very own rat master hamelin. When I saw hamelin can get Candy and Baby Kade, my choice is now made. I'll start Pandora, and start building Hamelin. (from then on, keep getting a few outcasts: levi first and after jack, tara later and the neverborn I want the most (lord chompy bits and doppelganger, candy and baby, mostly).

So, where to start with Hamelin? What to get? Mandatory units? I'm aiming at 50SS, using both candy and the baby. I was looking into buying Hamelin and Nix (I do not like the dog too much though, and I still did not understand if I can use more than one Henchmen, if not, I'll go Candy), convert a crapload of rats, rat kings and rat catchers from skaven minis. I was also thinking about the Malifaux child as a totem, easier to get. Obedient wretch is not that easy to get, is it a must have? I can order her from US (ain't seen her in Europe). Killjoy and Hodgepodge are also reasonable to buy. Since I do not like the dogs, I'll ignore canine remains and guild dogs. Crooligan and Iggy aren't easy to find, so I'll skip those too. Pullmyfinger mentions Ashes and Dust, and I think I can convert some proxy for those, and since it is also mentioned on levi builds, seems like a nice addition.

Does this seem like a good plan to start? Can someone make an eyeball list better than this (11 points for either some kind of rats/rat catcher/rat king/upgrades):
 

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Hamelin -- 7 Pool

+Sewer King [1]

 

Malifaux Child [2]

Baby Kade [7]

Candy [9]

Hodgepodge Effigy [4]

Killjoy [12]

Obedient Wretch [4]

 

With this, day 1 I have a Pandora starter to play, and as I get models I start using Hamelin. I'd start with Hamelin himself, and order hodgepodge and Wretch and convert the rats, then get killjoy and create Ashes and Dust, maybe even Iggy (seems a simple conversion) and maybe some The Stolen.
Also, how many rats, rat kings and rat catchers to make? Are there other summons one must have for him (I do not have his full rules, but since I see dogs mentioned, I wonder)?

[Adran]

Welcome to Malifaux

 

To answer your questions

Yes you can have multiple henchmen in a list.

I would not get Malifaux child. Hamlins totem is is the Stolen, and they are his extra lives. You will want them. he can only hire 1 but can have up to 3 on the table at once.

Likewise Leveticus won't use the Child and his totems are his extra lives.

The Obedient wretch is good and if you can get a copy it will probably make evry list with Hamelin, but you can play perfectly happy with out it.

 

Otherwise the list seems like a reasonable start to understanding Hamlin.

 

I would Suggest oathkeeper as an upgrade. On as many people as you can afford (its rare 3)

I'd also consider putting Survivalist on Hamelin. It makes him really hard to kill, as they have to get him to 1 wound, then hurt him again, when he can just sacrifice a stolen to heal back to 4 wounds. so they need at least 2 more hits to get him to 0 wounds again.

Once you get a better understandign of what you are doing, you might well find that you prefere hamlins other upgrades more, but as you learn, a nearly ukillable master helps cover up mistakes you might make.

[PraetorDragoon]

Welcome Thegg.

 

First thing I do want to note is that Hamelin is a more tricky master to play than others, so it might take a bit to get him. The infamous Malifaux Rat Shuffle might be annoying to do for both players, so having a smaller amount of rats and having a plan with them might be better in most situations that mindlessly spamming those. 

 

Aside from having a  "Plague Core", Hamelin doesn't have much mandatory models. I usually take Nix and a Obedient Wretch for this, but I suppose an Obedient Wretch and a Rat Catcher might work too. I am personally going a bit away from the Obedient Wretch and going to take Nix and a Rat Catcher next time. 

 

Unless you have tricky tactical plans that require a Malifaux Child, don't bother with them for Hamelin for now. They are a good choice for many casting masters. Stolen are lifelines and simpely very good, albeit squishy. Either hire one at the start, or summon two in turn 1. (preferbly with a stone)

 

Dogs are good, make no mistake. But it's not nescessary to take those. 

 

You only need to have 2 rat catchers, due to them being rare 2. About 8 rats would be plenty, and 2-3 rat kings would be what you need.

 

Speaking of stones, I usually run 4-5 cache, so you need to calculate that in. This usually brings up my Hamelin setup to 9(!)ss, so that is something to keep in mind. 

 

Adran added a good point for Survialist. It really helps making Hamelin more survivable. Another upgrade that is very good for general utility is The Piper. Obey is a awesome generalist action, and the no charge aura it generates makes it a must have choice Oathkeeper is a good upgrade to take on other models. (My Hamelin slots tend to be full, usually)

 

 

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Hamelin -- 7 Pool

+Sewer King [1]

 

•  

• Malifaux Child [2]

• Baby Kade [7]

• Candy [9]

• Hodgepodge Effigy [4]

• Killjoy [12]

• Obedient Wretch [4]

 

Based on this list, and what you want, I would build the following.

 

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Hamelin -- 6 Pool

 +Sewer King [1]

 +Survivalist [1]

 +The Piper [2]

 

The Stolen [2]

Baby Kade [7]

 +Oath Keeper [1]

Candy [9]

 +Oath Keeper [1]

Hodgepodge Effigy [4]

Killjoy [12]

 +Oath Keeper [1]

Obedient Wretch [4]

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

(I also see I need to update the tactica a bit. I see I haven't done Iggy justice. Take bodyguard on Iggy once, and see the look on opponent's faces when they realize a scrawny kid is the bodyguard. Hilarious).

[Thegg]

I ordered one hodgepodge, and talking to some sellers about his box to see if I can get reasonable shipping to Portugal. Unfortunately, the box doesnt seem to have Obedient Wretch, which might require a separate purchase. It seems an easy conversion though, one can easily use some children miniatures from whatever to make a wretch and the stolen, which kinda invalidate the point of his box if I only need Hamelin and Nix. 

Currently figuring it out to have a decent bang for my buck, maybe even just hamelin with the dog on a leash, and some conversion work can get me to separate the two, using the small dog as Nix in the meanwhile, using converted the stolen and Wretch. Iggy also looks like an easy conversion, need a kiddo, a scarf and some flames.

[Ausplosions]

Wait for his plastic box.

[Thegg]

Will that be soon^tm?

[PraetorDragoon]

Will that be soon^tm?

 

Exactly.

 

Speaking of which, what are the guesses for Hamelin's crew box? Hamelin, Nix, 3 Stolen, 4 rats? (Maybe Obedient Wretch)

[Kalkris]

I'm thinking, since they would be so small, 6-8 Rats, and a Rat King as well as the other aforementioned models, at a $60 price tag. Rats would come in one piece and so would all be on a single sprue (or two, barring that).

 

~Lil Kalki