Hamelin Tactica: Drown them in Rats

[Cedar]

6 hours ago, Freman said:

He can do the activation control game by summoning Stolen, in the following turn turning them into rats, turning the rats into Rat Kings, then turning the Rat Kings into Rat Catchers, and doing what he wants to do when the opponent has run out of activations. 

For myself I don't bother, it's a bit boring. Instead I focus on summoning Rat Kings, I have five models, two plastic Rat Kings and three Twisted Apparitions, that I could potentially get onto the board over the course of a game. It's not the huge summoning power of Nicodem or Molly, but it's a relentless progression that can land you an extra forty stones worth of models over the course of a game. If one gets badly damaged use Obey to sacrifice it and turn it into a Rat Catcher (and rat of course, that +1 armour can be surprisingly handy).

My core with Hamelin is The Piper, The Plague, a Stolen, and the Obedient Wretch. The Wretch can use any low crow to summon a rat, provided there's a model around to throw rats at. Even another rat will do, just don't hit one more than once. You can potentially kill one with unlucky damage flips. The Rat Catcher actually has his crow built in, which makes him handy for summoning in melee, but I prefer to summon the Catcher rather than hire them.

Ashes and Dust is awesome with Hamelin, just Obey him to cast Industrial Age three times, then cast it another three times with AaD's activation, and that's a great way to suck cards out of your opponent's hand.

Nix I haven't used much. He's reasonably resilient, within his three inch aura of "no severe damage" effect, and the ability to spam Bleeding Disease can make your opponent very unhappy when there's a lot of Blight on the table. That said he's competing with the rest of our 8-10 stone range and we have a lot of good models made even better by an Obey master.

Among the nasty tricks are using Pipes to draw an enemy model in, using the trigger from The Plague to give them blighted, then obeying a nearby Rat King to charge them as a 1AP action. Every time you inflict damage with the King, hit the trigger to up its blighted by 1. When it's high enough hit the model with bleeding disease to kill it.

Winged Plague are probably the best in faction scheming model available to us, and again they're great for handing out blighted. I always take at least one.

Hamelin is a top tier Outcast master. Make no mistake about that.

I never thought about using Pipes and Obey in a way you described, many thanks.

Same feelings for using Nix- his auras are nice, especially against Sonnia or Raspy, but in most cases hiring Sue/Strongarm/Johan/Hannah is better option. Since Plagues, Rats, Rat Kings and Catchers (plus sometimes Emissary) put blight on enemies, Nix isn't necessary. His great advantage is Bleeding Disease, but you'll probably score reasonable damage from it around turn 3.

A good target for Wretch throwing rats are other rats or in a first turn- Johan since he can heal damage dealt to him. 

My crew uses mostly Killjoy as big beatstick. What are other good options? I know about Ashes and Dust plus Sewer King, but I'm not big fan of this tactics (it's similar to Levi using his (0) Action). Kade seems nice, since he can lure enemies and Hamelin has no problem of scoring +2 damage with engaged targets. Desolation Engine can easily heal from rats and obeys, but it doesn't look like DE is better than Killjoy. Are any other models worth considering?

[Freman]

I've had better luck with Ashes than with Killjoy. I don't take Sewer King, although I can see how that would work.

I haven't tried my full range of models with Hamelin yet. I have used Desolation Engine with Jack, and that was fun.

Dual Trappers, I Pay Better, and four focused shots a turn is doable, and very annoying for the opponent. Librarians can be Obeyed for five rounds of healing a turn (if you want to be silly). Lazarus works like a Trapper albeit much closer. Strongarm and Bishop are also handy. I'm thinking of trying out Bert Jebsen and Gracie when I get them painted up. Obviously Taelor and Johan make much smacky with their hammers and Obey.

Basically when you combine an extra 3AP with the variety of beaters and utility pieces that Outcasts can bring, it adds up to extreme brutality.

[Cedar]

Thanks for answer. I was thinking about using Gracie or McTavish in case if I would need more resilient model or additional sniper. Killjoy works great for me and i'm a bit scared of using other model since it could be eliminated before damaging a single enemy, and killjoy with oathkeeper have possibility of killing enemy big beater or even master.

[TeddyBear]

sorry for this other silly question (i'm evaluating if purchase Hamelin) surely someone has already answered

Blighted condition, increase by 1 at the end of turn for each instance of blighted on the model?

For example: enemy model have blighted +2 on it, at end of turn blighted will become +4 (+1+1/+1+1) or only +3?

blighted condition can be removed only by models that can remove conditions, is that correct?

 

[daniello_s]

2 hours ago, TeddyBear said:

sorry for this other silly question (i'm evaluating if purchase Hamelin) surely someone has already answered

Blighted condition, increase by 1 at the end of turn for each instance of blighted on the model?

For example: enemy model have blighted +2 on it, at end of turn blighted will become +4 (+1+1/+1+1) or only +3?

blighted condition can be removed only by models that can remove conditions, is that correct?

At the end of the turn it goes always +1 only so in your example it will be +3 total.

Blighted can be removed by the actions which normally remove any condition.

[TeddyBear]

5 hours ago, daniello_s said:

Blighted can be removed by the actions which normally remove any condition.

like burning? or from models like  witchling stalkers, monks of the low river, or chiaki?

[daniello_s]

23 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

like burning? or from models like  witchling stalkers, monks of the low river, or chiaki?

Yes, exactly this.

[TeddyBear]

3 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Yes, exactly this.

But where i find the rule that says with an interact action i can remove blighted? (within 2"??)

thanks again, and sorry for all questions 

[daniello_s]

3 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

But where i find the rule that says with an interact action i can remove blighted? (within 2"??)

thanks again, and sorry for all questions 

I thought you were asking if you can remove it like burning with models which have condition removal action

Blighted cannot be removed light burning by interact action. You need to remove it with models you mentioned before, Johan etc.

[Cedar]

4 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

But where i find the rule that says with an interact action i can remove blighted? (within 2"??)

thanks again, and sorry for all questions 

No, you can't remove Blight by taking Interact action. @daniello_s was talking about actions like Johans Rebell Yell or Stalkers Dispell magic. Only Burning may be removed by interacts unless text of the condition states otherwise. 

[TeddyBear]

another question please: when a rat, gains fast from "infectious melodies" upg. and it gains also reactivate; how it can move up to 20"/25"?

After it moves 2/(3 with fast) times should it be sacrifeced?

(In the next few days I should receive hamelin but no one use it where i play)

 

 

[Freman]

2 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

another question please: when a rat, gains fast from "infectious melodies" upg. and it gains also reactivate; how it can move up to 20"/25"?

After it moves 2/(3 with fast) times should it be sacrifeced?

(In the next few days I should receive hamelin but no one use it where i play)

 

 

Taking on "Fast" is an option for a minion or peon model with line of sight to the model with Infectious Melodies, so the Ratcatcher gives it the Reactivate condition, it moves twice, then it activates again, choosing to gain "Fast" and moves three more times for a total of 25 inches movement. Then, due to the rules of Infectious Melodies, it is sacrificed. The model with Infectious Melodies doesn't actually do anything, the model being activated chooses to gain fast, with the price that it dies afterwards.

[TeddyBear]

21 minutes ago, Freman said:

Taking on "Fast" is an option for a minion or peon model with line of sight to the model with Infectious Melodies, so the Ratcatcher gives it the Reactivate condition, it moves twice, then it activates again, choosing to gain "Fast" and moves three more times for a total of 25 inches movement. Then, due to the rules of Infectious Melodies, it is sacrificed. The model with Infectious Melodies doesn't actually do anything, the model being activated chooses to gain fast, with the price that it dies afterwards.

aah ok thanks Freman, then rat move first for two times (10") then after it gains fast (from upgr.)and reactivate (from ratcatcher) so, if i want to put the rat as close at possible between opposing crew models, i need the model with (I.M. upgrade) already at 10" (to be in range for the upgrade)?

edit.  it needs only LoS, sorry i don't have book i not remeber well the upgrade  (i thought "infectious melodies" had a range) many thanks

[Freman]

Remember that Reactivate is a condition. You can put it on a model before its first activation and it'll still be there afterwards.

It's why if you're going to use Alyce's Burn Out on Lazarus, you should do it before his first activation so he can heal twice that turn.

[TeddyBear]

1 hour ago, Freman said:

Remember that Reactivate is a condition. You can put it on a model before its first activation and it'll still be there afterwards.

It's why if you're going to use Alyce's Burn Out on Lazarus, you should do it before his first activation so he can heal twice that turn.

Thank you.

[Freman]

At the moment I'm pondering if it's worth taking a Rat Catcher instead of an Obedient Wretch when starting the game. While the Wretch is two stones cheaper, her Throw Rats requires me to flip or cheat in crows to summon rats with. The Rat Catcher's melee attack comes with the crow built in for summoning, so anything I flip or cheat is fine. Obviously a downside is that I'd have a Rat Catcher tied up as part of the summon engine, limiting the times I can break up a Rat King, but then my goal is to summon Rat Kings, not Catchers, anyway. He also has the ability to reactivate a summoned Rat King, or a hired Winged Plague, with an eight, which gives me more activations and increased utility from those models.

EDIT: My bad. Rat Catcher can only summon a Rat once per turn, and only from an enemy model. Obedient Wretch it is.

[Freman]

Curious. All Lost models are height 1.

[Adran]

8 hours ago, Freman said:

Curious. All Lost models are height 1.

The lost keyword appears to be models that are effected by the pied piper,  who made the children follow him, so  it is largely fluff based.

[TeddyBear]

Finally today arrived my Hamelin and BoR boxes!!

I'm done now to build, how difficult!! i did not think they were so small

I'd like to try it as way that all you think is boring.. (doing wasting ap for opponents)

Would you have some good advices or explanation to use it best? (is the first time I'll use it)

I also thought this list:

 

Hamelin (5ss pool)

sewer king (1ss)

the piper (2ss)

infectious melodies (1ss)

Stolen (2ss)

A&D (13ss)

the bigger they are (1ss)

Killjoy (12ss)

oath keeper (1ss)

Big Jake (5ss)

Obedient Wretch (4ss)

2 Rats (2ss+2ss)

 

i also wanted to put inside Plague Upgrade, but i wouldn't know what to remove.. sewer king and piper are too interesting with a&d and i.m. for ratjoy the same..

The rat engine is best to using during first round?

then what is best to do?

[Freman]

Well at the moment you're taking Sewer King solely to sacrifice models. I wouldn't bother unless you're taking Lost models.

The Plague and The Piper are non-negotiable in my crew selection, the third option depends on what I'm trying to do. It switches between I Pay Better, Survivalist, Sewer King, Infectious Melodies, or nothing at all.

If you want to play the time wasting game, four rats, 8 stones, buys you eight activations that leave you with a Rat Catcher and a rat. Place them so that one rat is three inches from the others but they're not within three inches of each other, a T shape works, then just count round then activate the one in the centre to turn it into a Rat King, then turn the Rat King into a Rat Catcher and rat, then reactivate the Rat with Mouldy Cheese. You can do the same with The Stolen replacing two of the rats giving 9 activations for 6 stones.

[TeddyBear]

11 hours ago, Freman said:

Well at the moment you're taking Sewer King solely to sacrifice models. I wouldn't bother unless you're taking Lost models.

The Plague and The Piper are non-negotiable in my crew selection, the third option depends on what I'm trying to do. It switches between I Pay Better, Survivalist, Sewer King, Infectious Melodies, or nothing at all.

If you want to play the time wasting game, four rats, 8 stones, buys you eight activations that leave you with a Rat Catcher and a rat. Place them so that one rat is three inches from the others but they're not within three inches of each other, a T shape works, then just count round then activate the one in the centre to turn it into a Rat King, then turn the Rat King into a Rat Catcher and rat, then reactivate the Rat with Mouldy Cheese. You can do the same with The Stolen replacing two of the rats giving 9 activations for 6 stones.

thanks for the advices,

after these i thought about changing my list (in fact the plague and the piper as you say, are too important)

maybe take off big jake, put inside nix with infectious melodies 1 stolen insted off obedient wretch, and 3 malifaux rat.. with a 3 ss pool total..

in fact, i add sewer king upgrade for use it with A&D (add two pieces) at the end of every turn..

[Freman]

You already have one The Stolen in your list, and you can only hire one (rules for Totems) so taking a second isn't an option. The Rare 3 limit is for summoning purposes.

My basic list for Hamelin is.

Hamelin, The Piper, The Plague 6SS cache (7 if I can squeeze it)

The Stolen

Obedient Wretch

Winged Plague (2 if I can fit an extra in)

That leaves me with 35 stones to build my list around. I do like Ashes and Dust, as his immunity to conditions and being buried fit in well with Hamelin's Nihilism. If you throw in Nix (he's not a must take for me) that gives you three models who are either immune to conditions, or can choose not to take them if they don't feel like it. I'm going to be trying out Big Jake myself, as his ability to count as two models for the strategy can be handy, when the mission calls for it.

I try to always carry a lot of stones in cache because in the first four turns I'm going to be adding either a  or  to Hamelin's Lure Malifaux Citizen in order to get the opportunity to cast it twice (as long as I have the cards in hand). Then I sometimes need to stone for cards. Hamelin can drive his summon cycle himself from the second turn on, summon two The Stolen, next turn sacrifice them into rats, combine those rats into a Rat King, generally I stop there because I like Rat Kings (one day I will have five on the table). The Obedient Wretch turns any low crows I draw into more rats. I don't stress about making a Rat King on the first turn, sometimes I end up making two on the second. Given how easy it is to generate more models with Hamelin, I don't stress too much about the starting activations. If I get two low crows then that'll be another five activations in the first turn (sacrifice The Stolen, throw rat for two more rats, produce Rat King) meaning a fairly elite crew can still be run successfully.

[Virtus]

How much mileage have people gotten out of a Freikorps Specialist in a Hamelin crew? I've recently been keen on running him with Scramble along with another Malifaux Rat instead of either 12 points for three Crooligans (along with one point for Sewer King) or 12 points for Killjoy. Crooligans and Killjoy are good, but they make it more obvious what my schemes are.

My current list I like messing around with:

7 SS Cache
Hamelin- The Piper, The Plague, Sewer King
Nix- Hollow, Infectious Melodies
Freikorps Specialist- Scramble
The Stolen
Rat Catcher
Obedient Wretch
Malifaux Rat
Malifaux Rat
Malifaux Rat

The idea behind this list is to not only remove slow from your summoned models, but to also give them 3 AP with Infectious Melodies. A fast Rat King charging with 1 AP charges on blighted models (through something like Nix's 0 Tactical action) is awesome, especially since the Rat King will probably have + to attack flips on turn one. I feel like 7 soulstones is important for Hamelin, because he can use them to draw into suits his crew needs, spend a stone for a plus flip, or spend a stone for Mesmerize trigger. Thoughts on my lists appreciated. Specifically looking for input on what my activation order should look like.

[Freman]

Winged Plague have basically made Crooligans redundant in my opinion.

[Starrius]

My current main list use rusty and desolation engine

 

Rats are good snacks for the engine for healing