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Dreamer sans summoner


StaticVortex

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Dreamer has been my only master.  In M2e, I have grown more and more in love with him, yet have settled into a summoner play style.  Not particularly bad, but he has more depth than that.  Here I will explore Dreamer's adventures; having left the Dreams of Pain upgrade at home.

 

If I'm leaving Dreams of Pain at home, that means I'm putting on Restless Dreams.  I am not sure that tantrum will be worth taking...it will allow me to bring Chompy out on successful hits, and I will be able to summon Alps and daydreams to pull it off.  Status: maybe.

 

The 'Nightmares like Woe' list:  50SS (4SS cache)

 

Dreamer (+Restless Dreams)

2x Daydreams

2x Insidious Madness

Coppelius

Baby Kade (+depression)

Doppleganger

Widow Weaver

 

With this type of list, I would expect to use Dreamer to bring out a couple Alps, but more of a support master, moving, healing, etc while Insidious Madness runs off after objectives.  Coppelius may benefit from On Dreaming Wings to give him better movement ability to snipe easy targets for early eyes.  Widow Weaver to sprinkle her webs all over while Baby Kade and Doppleganger go hang out together, using his lure to pounce with +2dmg.  I thought about taking the twins, but they're such a staple I thought the change might be nice.  Thoughts?

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You might be misising out on some damage if you dont take a least one beatstick like Teddy?

- I am a complete Dreamer noob though, so might be wrong ^^

 

I know at least from other masters that you will have a problem if you only have controle-models, and even more so when you only have fragile controle-models :)

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As always preparing an all-comers list isn't the way Malifaux is designed to work. The benefit to the Dreamer is he can summon what he needs so this can mitigate that. Overall though I have to agree with Ikvar. You could probably do with some heavy hitters, maybe a Teddy or something along those lines just to give you the hitting power you might need should you face somebody like Izamu who often needs Tactical Nuking to bring down. 

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You have good models there but you shouldn't really use a pre-made list as has been said. 

 

Insidious Madness' are good for scheme running so you should keep those in mind when such schemes arise. Do you feel that Kade and Doppelganger are tough enough together? As if one of them folds your offense drops a lot, no more +dmg from Kade and nothing to Mimic for the Doppelganger. What's the role of Coppelius and the Widow for you in general? You should utilize Daydreams more, summon in the 3rd one when possible, they are amazing. 

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I have no desire to make an all-comers list, I just find myself taking the same list time and time again, and I'd really like to know the options my master has better so I can adapt more quickly.  I understand how Dreamer summons via Dreams of Pain, and use him to great effect that way.  I was considering Chompy my beatstick...and was thinking Baby can dish out quite a number of wounds, mimic'd by Doppleganger, who can interact while engaged for added objective VP.  Of course, I may be completely off track there.  It is stuff like that, which I am looking to learn.  This list is meant to focus on a theme - being all the models are either nightmares or woes.

 

I love taking Teddy with Baby and would likely swap out Widow Weaver for him.  For raw power and some staying ability, I have been considering hiring Killjoy.  I just picked up the model and will be painting him over the next few days before a game.  He is expensive, but will have to play him to really know if it is worth it.  If I took him, I will have to adjust what models I am trying to put out, maybe take some Stitched Togethers rather than Coppelius.

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You have good models there but you shouldn't really use a pre-made list as has been said. 

 

Insidious Madness' are good for scheme running so you should keep those in mind when such schemes arise. Do you feel that Kade and Doppelganger are tough enough together? As if one of them folds your offense drops a lot, no more +dmg from Kade and nothing to Mimic for the Doppelganger. What's the role of Coppelius and the Widow for you in general? You should utilize Daydreams more, summon in the 3rd one when possible, they are amazing. 

Coppelius and Widow would hang out with the Daydreams for -WP shenanigans, giving paralyzed, and taking eyeballs.  Hopefully enough outside engagement to interact when needed.

 

This isn't so much of a pre-made list, as it is thinking out synergy, considering what may or may not work well together; so that when I see the strategy and scheme pool, I'll have more options available to try and accomplish them.

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Chompy is a good beatstick no doubt with Melee Expert. And when you use the Daydreams as a Chompy Delivery System so that Chompy can use all his AP's on beating it will be beating not fast forgotten. Insidious' are really good models for 5ss I think. Baby Kade can also bring in some pain. Doppelganger is a great addition as it can Mimic most, either Kade or Chompy. Also you get the ability to cheat in Initiave, which might be game changing. You do have a good list, I am in no way saying that you don't. As most of those models are what I like to use as well :D 

 

I think that when they have Nightmare characteristics Dreamer's gonna have a fun day. I have been mostly using Summoning path as well with the Kid. That's why I like the conversation on the Chompy path. I do like it though, Disembowel can be terrible for your opponent on the 4th-5th turn when the SS pool is depleted and if you activate Chompy late so the opponents hand is depleted as well. 

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I am planning on getting back into the dreamer, my first malifaux master, and was NOT planning on playing him as a summoner. :)

My starting point for an initial crew build, which I will try to see what it can do and what it can't, is:

Dreamer (restless dreams, tantrum)

1 daydream

2 insidious madness

2 teddies

Widow weaver (dreaming wings)

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I have been looking to pick up a second Teddy; waiting for the new sculpt.  Though, that 22 cost for two models is quite pricey...granted, I could go the summoner route and generate nightmares galore, though that defeats my current experiment.  

 

Would it be better, do you think, to place (dreaming wings) on teddy, rather than widow?

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I find rpteddies to be mobile enough without needing the upgrade due to sheer amount of pushing they can do, and daydreams and dreamer only add to this.

I don't mind pushing a teddy down someone'a throat. The widow is a very different model, but I've found that having her at Wk6 makes a big difference to the range she can throw web markers out.

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Widow Weaver makes it into almost every one of my Dreamer lists. The web markers alone help everyone in the crew that has Horror on them and against crews such as Pandora with Wp vs Wp duels aplenty, they are game changers. I've been playing with Kade in the crew when I run any Teddies and am having mixed results.

 

I think I'll try a Beckoner with him instead of Kade or maybe both. A dedicated lure bot may really help Teddy smash.

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I've found the temptation to run restless dreams and tantrum together fairly overwhelming. The end result is a mosh pit of WP debuffs and slow as I spend Dreamers AP either popping out Alps/daydreams or blasting people with the SH action off Tantrum. Add in some sorrows and the whole thing gets a bit silly.

It does squatters rights and other "camping" style objectives VERY well.

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I've found the temptation to run restless dreams and tantrum together fairly overwhelming. The end result is a mosh pit of WP debuffs and slow as I spend Dreamers AP either popping out Alps/daydreams or blasting people with the SH action off Tantrum. Add in some sorrows and the whole thing gets a bit silly.

It does squatters rights and other "camping" style objectives VERY well.

 

Any chance I can get you to make a list with that crew?

- just what you would generally use with a strategy like that.

 

Would a list like this be a bit to much investment in that one strategy?

 

Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap
 
The Dreamer -- 4 Pool
 +Restless Dreams [1]
 +Tantrum [2]
 
Daydream X 3 [6]
Insidious Madness [5]
Insidious Madness [5]
Sorrow [5]
Sorrow [5]
Teddy [11]
Widow Weaver [8]
 
And then use the first 2 turns to summon alps, before LCB comes out to play :)
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I've found the temptation to run restless dreams and tantrum together fairly overwhelming. The end result is a mosh pit of WP debuffs and slow as I spend Dreamers AP either popping out Alps/daydreams or blasting people with the SH action off Tantrum. Add in some sorrows and the whole thing gets a bit silly.

It does squatters rights and other "camping" style objectives VERY well.

Sorrows are on my short list of models to buy next, for that very reason.  Pair them up with some daydreams and alps with a widow or coppelius nearby for some tantrum damage.

 

I tend to struggle with squatters rights and have found myself trying to get stitched togethers out for the VP.  I will have to try and play this style, see what happens.

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