Jordan275 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Hi all This is my first post on the forums, and i'm (as the title suggests) quite new to malifaux. I purchased two crews for The Guild faction, Lady J and her Death Marshals and Criid and her Witchling Stalkers (purely based on looks, i mean, cowboy Ghost Riders? who could pass them up!). I go into the game with my older brother, who bought various crews for various factions (Lilith, Mei-Feng, Rasputina and soon to be getting Freikorps). I've played roughly 6 games, a few with him, and a few at my games club that roped me into the game. I've got most of the rules down, and can play full games with little reference to the rulebook, but im having extreme difficulty actually doing well. In fact, i've not won a game yet XD. Partly due to luck, (i've pulled red joker once out of my 6-7 games, and had some awful hands at really important times ) but mostly due to the same thing every game; other crews seem to be able to do some crazy trick im just unable to counter that wins them the game. I got quite frustrated playing against a more experienced player using guild lawyers who held my entire crew up almost all game whilst Lucius sat claiming objectives (Lady J couldnt kill a 4 wound model) . I've also had a problem with Lady J been torn apart by EVERY single thing she has EVER engaged (she hasnt killed a single model yet). Quite frustrated with these dirty tricks, i've come to see my crews as no-where near as good as these tricky crews, as i just cant play them effectively enough to counter them, even when i know what they are doing sometimes. I really just need some help with general tactics and nasty combos to get me started with the crews i have, as playing is fun, but when im annihilated every game by pretty huge margins, its kinda frustrating. Everyone seems to say that The Guild are Jack of all trades, but i'm not really seeing that as a strength when i'm going up against these crews that can always seem to out trick me. If i try to out-shoot, they just move faster than me and close the gap. If i try and melee, i always fluff draws and fail to kill people (Case number 1: Lady J) Some general help would be nice, from anyone more experinced and/or tactically minded, as im signed up for a friendly malifaux tournament set up by the local henchman at my club, and if im gonna do this bad in it, i might as well take my own wooden spoon . Quite a lengthy post, but thanks in advance to anyone who can be bothered to read i and can help me XD Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Welcome aboard! I know the feeling, my track record (not counting beta testing, where things were crazy power) is an unbroken string of losses It can get pretty demoralising, but hang in there - knowing the ins and outs of your crews takes time, and knowing what the enemy can do can be more tricky. The first key to Malifaux is to only engage the enemy if you have to for your strategy and schemes. I found that if I focussed on schemes and didn't get distracted by killing, I went from 8-2 to 8-5 on average. Still losing, but much closer... Others will no doubt have more detailed advice, but that was the thing that lifted me from getting thrashed to just losing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Thanks Mako, it was the more detailed advice i was looking for unfortunately, as i more or less know what my crews do, (I have 6 games under the belt) i just have a ridiculously hard time doing well them unfortunately . Last game I played wasn't even close ( 0-7 ) as i focused on objectives and staying alive, but just got wiped by Lilith and her (by this point due to her upgrades) 2 mature nephilim from the purchased one and grown one. I also got wiped before fulfilling a single objecive... though i did get lilith with sonnia in combat (ironic that my spell user beats Justice's equal in combat given my track record with justice ) As i've said, i know how my crews work, sonnias crew distribute burning and shoot guys up, and death marshals are a bit trickier in that they can pine box and go for objectives, it just seems every game i get stuck with a crew with one dirty trick or stupid advantage that im either too slow, too weak or too unlucky to counter Im pretty good at WH and WH40k, i just cant seem to do well, let alone win! XD I was hoping for some combo's or a general way to do well with such an all rounder crew like the death marshals, and theres little to no battle reports on youtube i can watch for help It seems placing markers is the way to go in malifaux but most of my guys dont live past the second turn to do so Again, thanks for the advice and boost of confidence i guess Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I can't give much detailed advice either, but I generally agree with Mako. Hang in there. A Malifaux crew can have a lot of moving parts......getting to grips with it can take several games. If another player has learned their chosen master....well, the first couple times you face them you'll probably get trounced.....because everything will be a surprise.....but once you know what you're facing you'll do better. Think of it as Sun Tzu's The Art of War: (badly paraphrased) If you know yourself but not the enemy you will lose half the time......if you know the enemy but not yourself you will lose half the time.......if you know neither yourself or the enemy, you will lose every time. Right now you're just learning yourself and you don't know any of the enemy.....so obviously you're going to lose. If you're used to playing other games, it can be a pretty difficult transition also. Again, as Mako said, stay focused on your objectives....killing is a major part of the game, but killing is generally not what wins you the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Giving specific advice is very tough sometimes, because the game can be so different.....different enemies, different objectives, different terrain, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Haha, The Art of War isn't a bad paraphrase at all, what you're saying makes perfect sense, I guess ill give it some more games and see how things work out, unfortunately my next games wont be until another week or so. I'll admit, everyone i've played minus one person has had quite a bit more experience than me at the game, and one or two have been kind of close, but on the whole, i'll take your advice into account on thursday when i play my next few games. I'll try the objective over kills method next game again and see if that fares better than a balance of kill and place. I think my main problem is im too afraid of losing models due to my horrific luck to send people like Lady J in, who as i have said, hasn't killed a single person and has died every game... Rail Golems and Liliths with red jokers now haunt my nightmares! Anyways, thnx for the help guys, i appreciate the support! Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Well, if you are looking for detailed advice, it would help to get a batrep up. there are a few tricks you can run with any given master, but any specifics are going to be very hard to give, since every game is so different from the last, and every opponent plays differently. I will say it sounds like you may have either not taken certain things with Lady J, or not applied some of her triggers. She should be able to kill models fairly easily, assuming decent luck. I'd recommend when going up against enemeies that take her down consistently you bring Gaurdian and/or Fransisco. Fransisco gives her +2wp and Df if she starts within 2 of him, and the gaurdian has a (0) that gives her a defensive +2 and can heal on a trigger. Either or both of those greatly enhances her ability to survive through a round or two. Sonnia doesn't need all that many witchlings, and actually, it might be better bringing along the witchling handler and some death martials if you want to go with ranged burning. Her flame wall and reincarnation upgrades are magnificent, as well. Against Lilith and her general crews, armor helps a lot, since they tend not to have much that goes through it. Also, agaisnt her minions, the death martial charge)2 pine boxes) can often bury her bigger models. Dont forget to add in pushes for Lady J charging as well. General advice: You pick strategies and schemes before you pick crew. Make sure you pick crew that is going to be helpful for the strategy and schemes you end up with. Reconnoiter tends to do better with more, weaker models, because model count is the name of the game. Reckoning tends to be best with fewer, much harder models, since you get points by removing the opponents models. Schemes that require marker drops can be completed by models with sepcial abilities. The austringers can give you a push and interact, the death martials drop a scheme marker when they die, etc. Also, having a smaller, faster model for schemes is often useful. Look at watcher, or two guild hounds. Everything you do should be with one of two goals in mind: getting VP for yourself, and denying VP to your enemy. There are four basic ways in which this is done: Interacts:these usually require a 1 action, so you can't move very far and do it. In addition, they generally are not allowed in combat. So getting into combat with models can prevent them from interacting. Territory holding: big, hard to kill models with large melee ranges, often called tarpits, whcih can keep other models form interacting, or easily moving through an area. This lets you protect your own markers, and slow down or stop your opponent. Buffing/debuffing: altering your, or your opponts crew, in order to make it easier or more difficult to carry out plans. Things like paralyze, slow, etc. can really make your opponents plan fall apart, because they lose resources they need. in addition, you can make your own crew better at handling those things which come your way. and killing: it prevents your enemy from getting use out of their model. In addition, there are a few strategies and schemes which require it. Basicially, you need to evaluate your crew for which of those it does, and what you need in those categories to fulfill your objectives. Guild has a lot of tools in those arenas. Make sure you pick your crew for the situation, and don't just bring the same crew because you get how they work. and I know how you feel about luck. I have pretty rotten luck too. Thing is, with Malifaux, you have a lot of control over your luck. you know if you have gone through half the deck and not seen a card over 6, that what is left in the deck is probably pretty good. In addition, you have a lot of opportunities to improve your odds by manipulating the :=fates you get. Don't forget to use Lady J's :=fate on the attack when not charging. and Focus actions to get around cover. Defensive stance is awesom if you have a low card to discard, and focus is pretty darn good all on it's own. Also, soulstones are useful.When you are drawing 2-3 cards on the attack, you have much better odds of Lady J hitting with her 7ml, for instance, or Sonnia on her 9Ca. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I have to reiterate one specific point: Just hang in there. Lady Justice and Sonnia are both great at killing. Rotten luck won't hold forever. Your opponents are a great fount of wisdom. After each game, ask them how the game went. At what point where they afraid of losing a fight, and what tactic of yours got them sweating? If your game streak holds, ask someone to trade crews for a rematch. Look how your own crew is from the opposite side. General advice on how to play Sonnia or Justice is available in the Guild section of the forums. There are a lot of threads, some rather recent. Have a good read and see if you missed something. Note however, that such discussions either are about a specific model or tactic, or they are very general. It's the nature of the game. Oh, and use the Pine Box. It's awesome. Seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Also keep in mind pinebox can be used on a charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 cheers for the advice i often use pine box to deny enemies objectives and take big, scary things out for a turn or two, but with my rotten luck and terrible hands, nothing stays in there for more than a turn , so i try not to rely on it. As for Dracomax, i'll keep all of that in mind for my next game, and i'll post back after my next game to tell you how it's gone . hopefully it'll be close, or, heck lets be optimistic, i might even win . Thanks alot guys! Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you pine box them before they activate it's as good as a paralyze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Your opponents are a great fount of wisdom. After each game, ask them how the game went. At what point where they afraid of losing a fight, and what tactic of yours got them sweating? If your game streak holds, ask someone to trade crews for a rematch. Look how your own crew is from the opposite side. These are really good advices, the post game talk is a great way to learn as you get instant feedback on the game. You just need to remember it next time Also seconding the Pinebox a lot of models, a good way to learn the power of the Box is to just look at the stats. They have ml5, you can use that many times before a model leaves the table, with the Box the model leaves the table instantly. After that getting out of the box is a bit tougher, you get the wp vs wp duel if the model gets out it's your activation so 2 new AP's to Box the model back. Seriously the box is amazing. Guardin also might be a good addition, haven't yet tried it myself as I just got it painted and I am just going to start playing Justice. But the possibility to heal and with the defensive +2 lets you draw 3 cards and use the best one, it works as a deterrent as well, as it's 3 cards to get Riposte off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 just bought some riflemen and guild hounds, along with the stat deck and some red bases for objectives, and they should be here for next game. ive pretty much had post game feedback of either "god... your luck is horrendous" or "im suprised you took those objectives, that one would have been better" so i just think next game, try going for the objectives much more, and hopefully, the movement of guild hounds and added ranged threat might help with flexibility. After that, ill have stat cards for everything, so will be able to check up things like combos and synergy alot easier. Other than that, thnx guys. Not really much more i can say till the next game, but ill post afterwards. Thnx all Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 A little more advice: don't chop and change the crew about too much, model wise, but do take a good look at the upgrades. If justice is having a hard time killing things, then 1) you might be squandering cards in the wrong places 2) you might be picking the wrong targets 3) you might be picking the right targets, but timing your offense wrong 4) you might not be using soulstones well. With malifaux, like the morcambe and wise version of the greig piano concerto, you can be playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. Getting that right takes time and practice. Suggestion: Next game take ladyJ with just her badge of office upgrade and a full SS cache of 7. On a turn in which you wish to go on the offence with her, spend a soulstone to filter cards and be prepared to spend more to boost a duel. Do not, ever, count on riposte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 haha, i never count on riposte, tbh, j hasnt killed a thing yet. I think thats down to rotten luck however XD (i couldnt kill a ronin with her on a full activation of melee attacks) Badge of Office is definitely an upgrade i've considered after i saw it in the book the other day (i dont have a rulebook yet, but the guild arsenal deck is coming in the post shortly) and i feel it may have helped on numerous occasions, when J has taken 9-10 dmg from a total red joker fluke from lilith (right after my opponent used it the previous turn to save said lilith from being overkilled IMMENSELY) and cost me my first and only win (my opponent admitted he would have lost after the game had he not had stupid luck when he most needed it XD). Thats probably been the only close game i've had though . My brother and regular opponent told me that soul stone usage at key points is what i struggle with the most, so i'm trying to get the hang of all the different uses of them, such as to prevent jokers and add suits. In all honesty, im just lacking in experience and knowing the rules like the back of my hand. I also think my luck has me feeling im worse than i perhaps am XD. My next game is tomorrow, and i'll post all the details shortly after. It's against Von Schill. Im also debating whether to show off my crews in the miniatures section of the forums, as im quite pleased with the way everything is coming together in terms of colour schemes. Hope I win! Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Good luck! Definitely show off your crews, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 aha, im afraid they're nowhere near as mind blowingly epic as your crews, Mako. Your minis are the ones that made me go "erm... i dont think mine are good enough for this XD". Your kirai crew with the sculpted dragon heads was the first thing i saw and I was like "this guy is on another level... oh, thats the guy who just posted on my topic :D" Unfortunately, it's 2am in England atm, and i dont feel like waking the parents up to take some pics, and the lighting isnt ideal either XD, but i'll definitely take some tomorrow after they get their heads caved in by Von Schill and his Freikorpsmen, and i'll link you the topic (if you can do that? I'm new ). On an off topic, I just saw an awesome Lady J and sonnia crew by praetorian or andy i think, and they were pretty awesome, they're a very cool style . Nyways, ty for the advice Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 aha, im afraid they're nowhere near as mind blowingly epic as your crews, Mako. Your minis are the ones that made me go "erm... i dont think mine are good enough for this XD". Your kirai crew with the sculpted dragon heads was the first thing i saw and I was like "this guy is on another level... oh, thats the guy who just posted on my topic :D" Unfortunately, it's 2am in England atm, and i dont feel like waking the parents up to take some pics, and the lighting isnt ideal either XD, but i'll definitely take some tomorrow after they get their heads caved in by Von Schill and his Freikorpsmen, and i'll link you the topic (if you can do that? I'm new ). On an off topic, I just saw an awesome Lady J and sonnia crew by praetorian or andy i think, and they were pretty awesome, they're a very cool style . Nyways, ty for the advice Jordan DOn't be intimidated by Mako's crews. Mako does that to just about everyone. Post them up. if nothing else, you will get advice on what you can do better on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Haha, yh, mako's crews are awesome . Overall, Im counting my game against von schill a resounding success. Heres why: Turn 1 score- 0-0 (obviously) Turn 2 score- 4-1 to me Turn 3 score- 5-2 to me Turn 4 score- 6-6 :/ Turn 5 score- 7-7 :S End game score- 8-10 to him I managed to force my opponent into a position where he was forced to let me "Spring the trap" and gain full victory points from that scheme! I also had Von Schill, or as we called him, either Hulk Hogan or Revolver Ocelot XD, stuck in combat with one death marshall, Lady Justice, and within charging distance of my remaining crew. All in one turn from one pull by Stand for Judgement, into some well placed scheme markers. The following turn.... My deck was a crapchute . I had burned a soulstone to both redraw and reflip for initiative, meaning i had 1 ss left, and i redrew an ace for initiative (on a side note, my opponent won initiative every turn of the game while drawing an eight for all but one flip) and 3 for my hand, leaving me with one face card, and everything else below 5 :/. Just to rub it in my face, my opponent managed to deal a massive amount of damage to the judge with only one shooting attack, by pulling a red joker, having two rams for critical strike already... and still having another shooting activation after that :/. He was reduced to one wound, and the librarian finished him off. Lady J was activated to deliver the pain to Hogan... and she did, suprisingly, batter him senseles. He was on one wound with hard to kill, and i had two death marshalls waiing to clean up, despite the hand . And thats when he tore off his shirt and paralyzed THE ENTIRETY of my remaining crew, before tearing the skinny lady J in half with an astonishing amount of face cards and a leg drop XD. He really bought the pain... my opponent was amazed at his luck during our game, and admitted in the post game chat we had that I just got really, really unlucky, and to make things worse, he got really, really lucky after my lead early on XD Overall, I lost through sheer bad luck, but i still think this game showed a lot of improvement over the last, and the fact i had a 3 point lead,when had no scheme markers down by turn 2, is a new record for me as for pics of my crew, i'll post them shortly 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sparks Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Don't mean to impose, but WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN THE SCHILL RUNS WILD ON YOU? But in all seriousness, that pull from the judge in the last game is the type of thing you need to look out for more often. I don't think that could have been timed better I should have maybe taken that as well instead of relying on a last turn fluke 3vp from plant evidence... Also don't be too disheartened by luck - there's no way in hell my korpsman is gonna be able to pull all three face crows & a face ram on a triple negative damage flip again (I used my Joker to Leg Drop Justice the turn before ). I'm sure that'll come back to bite me in another game >< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHero Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't really have any more to add, just wanted to say I think everyone did a great job summing up everything and gave some great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan275 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ahaha, how did i know that was you in the first sentence!? Was it the hogan reference? Or the rocket raccoon profile pic? Good to see ur on the forums I hope it does come back to bite you after all, you cant have good luck forever... just I never seem to have good luck at all . Couldn't remember the exact hands of that game, all i remember is Lady J got her spleen handed to her by "The Hulk " Btw, if u wanted to email me those stat cards for Thursday to print off, my email is on my profile I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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