Lack of Last Blossoms?

[The Zinc Lich]

So, We have seen pretty much all the new models we're going to see for a very, very long time, and the only Last Blossom models out there are Yamaziko, Ototo, Torakage, and Oiran, yes? That means that they are the only TT sub-faction that takes nothing from its master's second faction. Last Blossom infiltration does nothing for TT Misaki, and the Outcasts are the only ones who don't get to play with any of their infiltrating master's toys.

 

/end whining

 

I suppose that the idea is that the Last Blossoms are supposed to be mercenaries, so any faction can hire them if they pay the surcharge. The Outcast mercenary-specific upgrades do work on the two minion LBs, as well. Its not all bad. How do people feel about it coming from the Ten Thunders side of things?

[MasterDisaster]

Originally there were others during the 2nd wave beta. Namely Katanaka Snipers (Ansatsu Sha at the time) and the Ten Thunders Brothers but due to various interactions with the Smoke and Shadows upgrade and possibly other things as well they were removed.

 

Can you imagine a Katanaka Sniper stealth into your face for deployment, blast your master then throw some Smoke Bombs and bugger off to safety with a Shadow Stride? Then Imagine doing it with 2-3 of them, not particularly fun or balanced.

 

I'll admit though I've no idea why the Brothers lost it. During the 2nd wave there was talk of changing the Ronin to be Last Blossom but then that steals thunder from the Vik's fluff and the cards had already be completed and released during and after the Wave 1 Beta. 

[Arli]

I'll admit that I wish the TT Brothers still had the Last Blossom.  The snipers did not need to keep it, they are almost too good as is.  

 

Maybe there is a need for a generic upgrade that would allow Last Blossom to be applied to models such as TT Brothers or TT Archers.  I would not want it on the Katanaka Sniper though.

[MasterDisaster]

I agree with you, I read back in 1.5 that Misaki loved the Brothers and they often worked together so it's such a shame that they aren't Last Blossom now. Still, nothing stopping Misaki from taking them when shes declared 10T though. 

[Grim]

Wish she could take the 10T bros when she plays Outcast

[MasterDisaster]

Wish she could take the 10T bros when she plays Outcast

 

You n me both! It's a shame they weren't made Mercs or had an upgrade for Misaki given her Infiltrate Ten Thunders Brother or something. Still, the current Last Blossom options are pretty good and there's lots of new guys for her to wreak havoc with within 10T and Outcasts. It would have been nice to have a few extra in-theme models for her but with a little imagination you can quite happily see the fluff behind the Dawn Serpent or Lone Swordsman tagging along with her. 

[Vile the mad]

They should give her avatar the ability to hire thunder bros regardless of faction, aswell as something from outcast side (maybe ronin?) so she can benifit either way she builds.

[The Zinc Lich]

You n me both! It's a shame they weren't made Mercs or had an upgrade for Misaki given her Infiltrate Ten Thunders Brother or something. Still, the current Last Blossom options are pretty good and there's lots of new guys for her to wreak havoc with within 10T and Outcasts. It would have been nice to have a few extra in-theme models for her but with a little imagination you can quite happily see the fluff behind the Dawn Serpent or Lone Swordsman tagging along with her. 

 

Well, the Torakage are good. I've yet to hear of someone having a good experience with Oiran, and neither of the henchmen really impress me too much, aside from the smoke bomb shenanigans. How Foundry/Retainer/Darkened/Tri-chi/Black Sheep models are there? 2 Henchmen and 2 minions seems really... low to me.

 

It sounds like the Last Blossom crew will forever be haunted by Smoke and Shadows. Smoke bombs and shadow step are apparently too good to have easy access to...

[Lucidicide]

I don't think Last Blossom are really haunted by it. I think historical model placement is what we've suffered through.

 

In the beta, I advocated for removing LB from a few 10T models in order to provide more incentive to take Misaki as 10T. Essentially, everything she wanted to take was gaining LB so why not take her as an Outcast? Which is silly, because she's 10T first.

 

Since everything released is essentially a reprint and models like 10T Brothers moved to 10T, we didn't really see any Outcast additions. I imagine that upcoming releases will see new LB models in the Outcast faction, finally giving Misaki something to take away from her dual faction.

 

Oiran are terrible, terrible models. Torakage are good. I don't like Yamaziko, but some people do. Ototo is a beast and has proved it time and time again, as long as you can keep him away from Wp duels.

 

But when you're looking at the options Misaki has vs someone like Mei or Jakob, it's also worth keeping in mind that many 10T Masters need a core crew more than her. She doesn't need models of a specific type (like Construct) or want to abuse a condition (like Under the Influence). Because of that, LB doesn't need to be nearly as prevalent for her to work, and let's face it, the more out of faction hiring the harder the balancing.

[quiche]

The Smoke upgrade is possibly why the brothers didn't get Last Blossom. Protect our holdings plus the potential to move large distances, plus defensive stance... May have been too good for 5ss.

[The Zinc Lich]

I don't think Last Blossom are really haunted by it. I think historical model placement is what we've suffered through.

 

In the beta, I advocated for removing LB from a few 10T models in order to provide more incentive to take Misaki as 10T. Essentially, everything she wanted to take was gaining LB so why not take her as an Outcast? Which is silly, because she's 10T first.

 

Since everything released is essentially a reprint and models like 10T Brothers moved to 10T, we didn't really see any Outcast additions. I imagine that upcoming releases will see new LB models in the Outcast faction, finally giving Misaki something to take away from her dual faction.

 

Oiran are terrible, terrible models. Torakage are good. I don't like Yamaziko, but some people do. Ototo is a beast and has proved it time and time again, as long as you can keep him away from Wp duels.

 

But when you're looking at the options Misaki has vs someone like Mei or Jakob, it's also worth keeping in mind that many 10T Masters need a core crew more than her. She doesn't need models of a specific type (like Construct) or want to abuse a condition (like Under the Influence). Because of that, LB doesn't need to be nearly as prevalent for her to work, and let's face it, the more out of faction hiring the harder the balancing.

 

I'm not actually sure we will be seeing much, if any, LB in the outcast faction. Everyone but the Henchmen are mercenaries, so you are able to take them regardless of who your master is. I suppose that removing the 1ss tax on hiring mercs would be good, but it seems like the limited LB options are a deliberate design decision that Wyrd has made for Misaki's crew.

 

This is a bit off topic, but as someone who is a fan of Ototo, how well do you think he fairs without his unique upgrade? I had a whole Outcast Misaki list packed with slowing abilities planned out before my opponent pointed out I wouldn't be able to use Thunderstrike as an Outcast...

[Lucidicide]

I've mostly taken Misaki as an Outcast, being an Outcast player for years. I have no issue using Ototo without his upgrade. I always wanted to take it in the list, but honestly had no issues with his performance without it. I find Misaki crews tend to be fast and a bit squishy, so Ototo really helps me hold down a position so I can best utilize my hit and run models. I use almost every soulstone I take on him to make sure he stays in the fight.

[Drool_bucket]

Oiran are terrible, terrible models.

 

Am I the only person who likes a single Oiran in many circumstances?  Heck, I've paid six for one in a Viks crew more than once and been happy to have it.

 

Lure is just that good, especially when you are running the Sisters!

[The Godlyness]

The oiran hate really needs to stop. The model is quite solid. It was clutch in a few of my games luring things like izamu into range to die. Luring Misaki into range to die buffing wp so I can pass terror tests. The model is not a shining auto take like Cisco is with any master. But she is a solid model. Stop the hate.

[tadaka]

Orian hate will continue as the units are crap. Sorry but its true. Both of you go just pointed out the only thing they have going for them lure. They have nothing but a second rate lure at that.

[The Godlyness]

Yet they win games clearly a trash model that I have seen brought in Collette crews once in a Dora crew few times in guild. I guess I get more mileage out of them than most people. Them being on the table makes them either high priority due to the chance lure or ignored due to thst chance lure. Either way they are a solid model for 5 stones. But just because you get 0 miles out of them does not mean it's a bad model as a whole.

[Drool_bucket]

Orian hate will continue as the units are crap. Sorry but its true. Both of you go just pointed out the only thing they have going for them lure. They have nothing but a second rate lure at that.

 

Pretty sure they generate 2 AP every turn...  and they can accomplish schemes and objectives with a reasonable move. 

 

They buff WP and they also get double mileage out of Defensive Stance... 

 

I agree that they are not "good at one thing" models because of suit-dependent Lures and lacking offensive attacks...  and I agree that taking more than a single one may not be the best spent Stones, but a single one has proven itself useful multiple times for me.  I have replaced a Ronin, considered a top 6 SS minion, with Oiran before and used them effectively, frustrating my opponents.

[Grim]

I will try the Oiran for Ronin swap in one of my future games. All my Ronins do anyway is schemes. It's weird how they are not a target for my opponents. I am afraid that if I switch an Oiran for a Ronin, the Lure might prove to be a big bullseye.

 

EDIT: for the same cost you can get a Performer though....

[Ratty]

I was chatting to a Misaki player at Salute, he is a long term Malifaux Player, and he felt they were really useful. His general feeling was that they are *NOT* lurebots but add a lot of other useful abilities to the pot. Including the ability to tie down a model so they can't attack important parts of your crew.

[The Zinc Lich]

I certainly don't have the experience to hate on the Oiran, but my big stumbling point is how card intensive it is for a "mere" 5 point minion. It needs suits for its 1 melee, it needs high cards for its 2 melee, it needs suits for Lure, and it needs a card to take advantage of Reading the Stone. If you need it to do something cool, you can get it to do it, but the resources you have to pump into it are atrociously inefficient.

 

Compare it to the Performer, who is also a five point merc. The Oiran has better Wp, Wounds, and a charge speed, but the Showgirls 1 melee does twice the poison, has higher MI, and a better damage spread. Siren Call has a shorter range and a lower Ca, but better triggers and doesn't need a suit. Instead of Reading the Stone, you get a nice, solid Manipulative, which doesn't need cards to take into effect. Instead of the janky 2-melee attack, you get the ability to destroy scheme markers at range along with a crippling debuff pulse. You trade a +1 wp aura for a situational reactivate, which I view as a wash. I'll let you draw your own conclusions, but as an Outcast player, I know which of the two models attracts me more.

 

Honestly, I see the Oiran as being the most useful in Collette lists, where their melee trigger can totally shut a model down.

[Grim]

If the Oiran's Ml weapon had a 2" reach, I think it would be better at "entertaining" enemy models and keeping them occupied

[MasterDisaster]

I use Oiran from time to time with Misaki, in fact I almost always include one. Their +1 Wp buff is real useful, they can't be charged and gain Def +2 when taking Def stance. This makes them pretty good at holding objectives for a turn or two without support. Their Concealed Weapon attack is pretty good but their (2) just plain sucks. I've never had it work more than twice in a row. Overall they aren't the best 5ss minion in the game but they sure as hell aren't the worst either. They are a jack of all trades utility piece so it's natural other models that specialize in their particular field will out shine Oiran, this doesn't make them bad though. 

[The Zinc Lich]

I use Oiran from time to time with Misaki, in fact I almost always include one. Their +1 Wp buff is real useful, they can't be charged and gain Def +2 when taking Def stance. This makes them pretty good at holding objectives for a turn or two without support. Their Concealed Weapon attack is pretty good but their (2) just plain sucks. I've never had it work more than twice in a row. Overall they aren't the best 5ss minion in the game but they sure as hell aren't the worst either. They are a jack of all trades utility piece so it's natural other models that specialize in their particular field will out shine Oiran, this doesn't make them bad though. 

 

I'm curious, then; what IS the worst 5ss minion choice? Even if we agree that the Oiran is situationally useful, someone has to be the worst, and I can't think of anything lower on the totem poll.

 

Once the TT Bros start making the rounds as defensive pieces for 5ss, the last niche where the Oiran is getting used is going to disappear.

[Drool_bucket]

Interesting question, very valid with the TTBro out there.

 

But I do see things this way still... TTBro are "offensive" defensive models, if that makes sense.  You can use them aggressively because they are much better at the defense thing *and* can offer up some offense.

 

Oiran, instead, are support pieces that don't die that easy.  When I have an Oiran that is closed upon I usually won't attack with it, instead I make use of Defensive Stance and such...

 

And one more comment on suit-less Lure.  I find it much more useful even without the built in crow because of the nature of the game.  With Stat 8 you are often winning the duel.  The opponent then has to make the decision, cheat or not.  And depending on what you are pulling and what is waiting for it (my Sisters waiting for a key model for instance) can cause your opponent some frustrations. 

 

and low crows are very useful for moving your own models.

 

anyways, just saying.

[Ratty]

Also they are not Last Blossom, so they can't drop Smoke Walls. which is definitely a count against them in a Misaki crew.