Viks plans

[Joel]

Hi,

Last edition I had a single list viks crew that I used for all games - some were harder than others as a result, but it was a list I really enjoyed, and those more difficult games were fun challenges.

With wave 2 now out, I'm looking to resurrect my old list - and, while it won't do exactly the same thing anymore, I think I've come up with a version that should be fun to try, so I thought I'd post it up here. Maybe you guys will have some good suggestions.

My old edition list (at 35ss) was:

The Viks

Vanessa

Sue

Freikorps Librarian

Ronin

Desperate Merc

7ss

And played around with lots of card drawing (Vanessa and sue) to keep the viks stocked up on good cards to do their thing. The healing kept Sue, and sometimes the others, in the game while the ronin did stuff and became soulstones.

The 2.0 version planned (at 50ss) is:

Vik of ash (tally sheet, survivalist, sisters of fury)

Vik of blood (tally sheet, oathkeeper)

Vanessa (oathkeeper)

Sue (oathkeeper)

Ronin

2 freikorps librarians

Malifaux child

5ss

The child is in there to free up vik of ash vp for the fury spell, but could be dropped (should I?) for more soulstones.

Again, the list plays with healing and card drawing and the viks are meant to run in different areas of the board. In a pinch, all main models can have 3ap.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome,

Joel

[Kadeton]

Man, that's a ton of healing. My main concern would be that everyone there is still pretty fragile, so in a bad situation they will go from full health to dead before you get a chance to heal them... but if you can keep them all up and running it should be pretty effective. I'd keep the Child in there - it's useful as another activation if you're trying to delay the Viks, and having it cast SiF is a great way to make your opponent nervous (and it means there's even more healing going around).

 

Heavily armoured beater lists might give you some trouble.

[Joel]

Thanks for the feedback

I'm hopeful that the extra damage from sisters in fury will bypass the armour of most models, but it'll need some testing.

The crew is low on wounds, that' s true, so careful placement will be key. Thankfully most of the models also have ranged attacks

[Drool_bucket]

I rarely take to the field with less than 7 stones with the Viks.  The reason why is simple, any time they take 2 or more wnds from a hit, I prevent.  Everytime.  As Kadeton points out, their issue (and really the issue with your list as I see it) is that many opposing players can take care of most of your models with one or two smart activations.

 

During the Beta I did try the "spread apart" Viks to see what they could do.  And I did drop the SoC for the MC for a bit, then no totem.  The problem is that the Viks really do rely on each other in many instances.  Not the least is getting Melee Expert on Bloody Vik.  Where I play LoS is often blocked by the time you get 1/2 across the board.  Further, Vik of Ashes is extremely, extremely killable early in the turn.  You don't generally want to activate her to ger her +1 Df  up (and you need a nearby Sister) so she will sit with Df 5, no pos. to Df/Wp flip and just 7 wounds.  Any heavy hitter will kill her without serious stone use and some luck, even with Survivalist.  (which is an upgrade I do take frequently with her)

 

With only 7 activations you are on the light side of things.  Against this crew the first thing I would do is eliminate one or two of the minion models and force the Viks to do things they don't want too, often leaving themselves out of place.

 

I think you should reconsider Sister In Spirit and the concept of the Vikkies working together.  If I wanted to play the Viks as separate I would instead use Misaki as a Master, she is much better at it.  The M2e Viks are really good and are two sides of the same coin, relying on each other to be most effective.  PeregrineFalco (CheatedFates Adam) coined the phrase "Helicopter Sisters" and he is spot on. 

 

And during the Beta I did try the MC as a totem, for the Healing (there was no Librarian or Vanessa) and I just found the Student of Conflict so much better.  And Vanessa adds a ton more to the SoC's effectiveness.  Previously you would never take the time or effort to get that thing Healed unless it was on Bloody's First Blood abiliy.  But with Vanessa having her own healing and the Librarians, Armor +1 and 5 wounds, she can hold on for a while to anything not dedicated to killing her.

 

Couple of things to consider.  Vanessa can hold the upgrade that gives paired weapons and accomplice, but she can't hold Sisters of Fury  (+2 damage).   Don't underestimate pairing the Sister's attack, in particular Ashes.  It makes her gun slightly more useful in early turns as you get into position and makes her near as effective as killing as Bloody Vik.

 

Mark of Shez'ula or whatever its actually called.  That upgrade is pure gold.  Viks never want to leave anything standing and that basically insures a kill against almost everything in the game and allows the Viks to go from picking on 8ss or less models to killying all but the hardest things.  And even then, you deal with the hardest things in the game with the Sister's (2) actions, Dragon's Bite and Flight.  I would take that over Tally Sheet.

 

anyways, I am dying to hear your take on the Viks.  These are just some of my own observations.  Just happy to see the Outcasts get a little test driving from the 'Fools...  haven't found a Podcasts that takes us too serious.

[clockworkspide]

I don't play the Viks at all, but I can imagine Ressers & Jack Daw being potentially problematic due to the Hanged's ability to block healing (and in the case of Ressers, the Decaying Aura upgrade).

[Joel]

yes, those would both be an issue - I'd have to go in fast onto a Hanged and kill it quickly.  Also, Sue's -ve flip on Ca actions aura would prove useful as a form of protection from the hanged's spells.

[Mouseketeer]

Rule of thumb from me.

 

Mark of Shez'ul. Always. 

Survivalist is god on ash, but not amazing.

Healing by killing stuff with pokey negates some of the necessity to stock up on extra healing models.. I find a single Libby / Vanessa enough.

Separating the Viks mean they die. 

A couple of dedicated scheme runners can be handy.. Void wretches, desperate mercs.. something cheap.

I don't find many more than 4-5 stones are necessary... You can prevent a lot of damage with movement / not being in range / +ve Df flips / +1Df bubble etc...

I really like a second beatstick in a lot of games. Means you can push something scary in people's faces, make them react, and then sling Pokey in later.

 

Mouse

[daniello_s]

I played so far 3 games with my Viks crew (and 3 games in Malifaux in total ) and I can clearly see that:

 

- Viks are hard hitters but are quite fragile so healing support is a must (Vanessa, Freikorps Librarian)

- Viks HAVE to stay together, otherwise they are dead

- shooting support is always welcome and that's why I'll have Vanessa + Lazarus combo with me almost every time I run Viks

- depends on the mood I'll swap Taelor for either Desolation Engine (cause non-direct area damage is so sweet and auto-healing on the direct damage is even more sweet), Strongarm (cause mobilty backed up with good melee and shooting is always in price) or Rusty Alyce (shooting anyone?)

[Malicte]

I have to agree on the effectiveness of Vanessa + Lazarus.  It's basically an auto include in just about every Viks game.  Vanessa for obvious reasons of sister synergy, Lazarus because he's great and getting 1 more AP out of him every round makes Auto Fire hilarious.

[daniello_s]

After few games my crew would look like this:

 

For 35SS games:

 

- Viki of Ashes - Sisters in Fury, Oath Keeper

- Viki of Blood - Mark of Shez'uui, Oath Keeper

- Vanessa

- Lazarus

- Freikorps Strongarm

 

3SS in pool

 

For 50SS games:

 

- Viki of Ashes - Sisters in Fury, Oath Keeper

- Viki of Blood - Mark of Shez'uui, Oath Keeper

- Vanessa

- Lazarus

- Freikorps Strongarm or Taelor

- Freikorps Librarian

- Ronin

 

5SS in pool

 

In reserves are: Rusty Alyce, 2x Ronin, Desolation Engine, Student of Conflict

 

Generally I'll use only Outcast girl models with Constructs or Beasts support if possible.

 

No male models - guys, we say thank you. (*)

 

 

(*) - with exception of Strongarm cause his model is to awesome and I can claim he (she) is a girl in disguise

[Mouseketeer]

See, I don't massively rate the strongarm suit, and lax is either here nor there.. he gets a run, I just don't find him amazing.

Generally my go to is bishop.. but trying out killjoy, ama no zako, the desolation engine, taelor for games where an extra henchman is handy, or against summoning crews..

Haven't tried rusty yet, but that could be on the cards..

I tend to play something like:

Viks

Bishop + oathkeeper

Librarian

Freikorps trapper

2 void wretches

Ronin

Mouse

[Malicte]

These days I feel like Taelor rarely earns her points except against summoning crews.  I have questions about her mobility and her somewhat deceptive fragility with that low Df unless you're willing to pump extra stones into her.  But at that point, with upgrades, you're starting to get very expensive very quickly.

 

Granted, part of the problem is that the one thing the Viks aren't short on is damage output, so she tends to get less of a look unless I anticipate getting use out of Welcome To Malifaux.

 

In the 10+ stone range, I find myself more partial to Bishop, Killjoy, and Ashes and Dust, since they all have ways to solve some of the problems I run into with Taelor.

[The Zinc Lich]

For everyone who is talking about Vanessa and Lazarus, I agree it is awesome, but I wouldn't discount the synergy between Vanessa and the Hodgepodge Effigy. For four points, you get a very tough objective grabber, and Vanessa can Obey it to either get the soft cover aura, which is very helpful for your delicate masters against shooty lists, or you can give it defensive stance and really frustrate your opponents with the Effigy's Df 6.

 

The Loyalty to the Coin action can also net you a fairly big soulstone return if you manage to sling VoA into a good whirlwind zone.

[Kadeton]

I've found Taelor with Scramble is well worth her stones if you're looking for a hard-hitting, resilient area-control piece. Whether you want such a thing is largely dependent on the Strategy and Schemes. If you need more mobility, you're usually much better off going with Bishop, but not all scenarios require that level of speed.

[Drool_bucket]

So many options...  Ama No Zako controls like Taelor... doesn't hit as hard but controls better.

 

Bishop moves around so well and has stats to back him up... but can't use Stones and can get focus-killed...

 

Hannah supports better than Rusty but Rusty can do it all.

 

Ronin run objectives really well but Friekorpsman can do it better if there is Severe Terrain around.

 

Hans cherry-picks, Trappers are steady, Sue does so much but a CGS is cheaper and hits just a tad more often.

 

 

 

Can't we just agree that Outcasts are the best faction and no matter what you are doing, as long as you are winning, you're doing it right?  ;P

[Malicte]

I've found Taelor with Scramble is well worth her stones if you're looking for a hard-hitting, resilient area-control piece. Whether you want such a thing is largely dependent on the Strategy and Schemes. If you need more mobility, you're usually much better off going with Bishop, but not all scenarios require that level of speed.

 

 

So many options...  Ama No Zako controls like Taelor... doesn't hit as hard but controls better.

 

Can't we just agree that Outcasts are the best faction and no matter what you are doing, as long as you are winning, you're doing it right?  ;P

 

I find that Ama is a better area control model than Taelor if that's what I'm after.  Less survivable, surely, but between the Hazardous/Severe aura, Terrifying, her melee reach, and Obey, that's a lot of potential control.

 

And yeah.  Of course they're the best.  That's just science.

[The Godlyness]

Lies all the lies. Outcasts are ok. That's all I give them.

[daniello_s]

Thoughts after last night's game:

 

- Vik's holded up 3/4 of Zoraida's crew killing, slashing and dying themselves in process (unfortunately, bad Bad Juju, very bad ) but that allowed me to snatch the victory.

Also Oath Kepper on both of them and Mark of Shez'uui on Blood Viki is a MUST HAVE.

- Vanessa helped them survive longer with her healing and she was threatening everyone around with her range attack. Not to mention she supported Lazarus very well.

- Lazarus - all enemy models were hiding from him as much as they could so he controlled nice piece of the table. And when he finally got a chance he spit his auto-fire in single turn wounding Bad Juju and nearby Zoraida for 6 wounds each. Next turn he would probably chew them up with his grenade launcher

An extra 1AP from Vanessa is a blessing. Extra move, shooting or simple taking a Focus action is sweet.

- Freikorps Strongarm - very good all-rounder. He absorbed left flank and finally crushed into Terror Tot (killing them at the first blow) and then he forced the Waldergeist to stand up and fight instead of dropping Scheme Markers. Mobility, toughness and good combat - I like it.

- 2x Ronin - very nice scheme runners. They didn't do anything else but that was their purpose in the game. Plus they are pretty nasty in melee (and can't be charged).

 

One thing to consider - as I had Sisters in Fury upgrade on my Ash Viki and unfortunately I didn't have a time to use it, maybe it would be better to swap it for Synchronized Slaying??? Getting Chain Activation when both Vikis are close by could be very handy.

[Darkside]

Well last tourney I went to I won with my Viks my list was

Vik of ash oath keeper sisters in fury

Vik of blood oath keeper mark if sh

Vanessa

Lazarus

Freikcorps trapper

Malifaux child

And depending on scheme pool

Johan or librarian

[NeverEnding]

I freakin love my Librarian. That gal has finished off Seamus twice now for me and took out the Hungering Darkness reliably every time she had the chance. I loved her when Von Schill was but a mere henchmen and ran her in almost every crew and I love her still now. Vanessa Lazarus looks like fun I wont deny  but for some reason I still haven't played it despite the fact I have both models >.>. I usually end up running Viks with Taelor (who I'm still a bit iffy about) my Librarian 2 ronin as my core then I just mix it up depending on strat and schemes.

[Mouseketeer]

I find synchronized slaying an almost auto include.

 

Ash: Sisters in spirit, syncronized slaying (sometimes survivalist)

Pokey: Mark of Shezuul, Oath keeper

 

Beatstick #2: Bishop (he's my go to), Taelor (if another henchman is needed, or I'm facing a summoning crew), Lazarus (If I want some extra ranged support) + Oath Keeper

 

Scheme runners: 1 - 2 Void wretches

 

Support: Librarian, Ronin, Freikorps trapper (vendetta = this guy, always), Johan (if condition removal is required) sometimes the student...

 

I would struggle to drop shezuul, either of ash's upgrades. I treat oath keeper on Pokey Vik as a cheaper student of conflict if stones are getting short..

 

Bishop + oath keeper = 2 flurries, or just 4AP = amazing. Even just the extra AP for swift + access to target Df / Wp + auto suit is all kinds of awesome.

 

I maintain some kind of healing is almost necessary. The librarian is my usual go to, a stone cheaper than vanessa, and (1) heal actions beats the (2) action Vanessa has IMO. + she still works at good ranged support.

 

The trapper is usually in the crew.. he's really good at dropping other ranged threats.. So I tend to use him as a bit of a counter gunline early, then drop scheme markers as required late game. Vendetta is almost automatic points with him as well.

 

Big thing with the Viks I found is everyone underestimates the threat range. With ash walking, slinging Pokey, then casting the extra dmg spell (this is when to make it happen).. then Pokey dropping oath keeper for a walk + (0) for positive dmg flips + charge + melee expert swing all paired, positive dmg flips with the buff from ash's spell, ignoring most defensive stuff + whirlwind... She's been known to drop 5+ models in an activation, after starting her turn 21-22" away from what she's hitting.

 

Then you just need her to live.. and bail her out.. Overextending is also really easy to do...

 

Mouse

[Drool_bucket]

A question to those who like to run Bishop/Taelor or other higher cost models with the Viks.  Do you feel you suffer from out-activation?  I stay away from larger investments because I basically do what is described above, but I try to do it after everything in the opposing crew has gone, so Bloody Viks only has to suffer begining of Turn attention, when I am back up to a full hand and get pos. flips on all Df/Wp duels...

 

I run mid-cost/low cost models in my crew and the first thing I do is try to steal Activation control by killing a weaker minion at range ASAP....

[Mouseketeer]

Which is why the void wretches are handy.. I like having a second threat on the board, so 1 more high ss cost model generally. Given that I haven't paid for the Viks I don't find it's a major issue.

 

Also, above is kinda turn 2-3 plan when you've worked out where you want stuff to be, and played the move & position game for a couple of turns.. 

 

So the crew generally looks something like:

Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Viktoria of Ashes -- 6 Pool

   +Sisters in Spirit [1]

   +Survivalist [1]

   +Synchronized Slaying [2]

Viktoria of Blood [0]

   +Mark of Shez'uul [2]

   +Oath Keeper [1]

Bishop [10]

   +Oath Keeper [1]

Freikorps Librarian [7]

Freikorps Trapper [6]

Ronin [6]

Void Wretch [4]

Void Wretch [4]

 

8 activations generally isn't bad, and there's a few that you can "throw away" the 2 wretches & ronin aren't pivotal early, the trapper will generally get a focus + shot turn 1 & 2,  Bishop will threaten something, the libby moves to where you want Ash to be later & sometimes takes a few shots at things..

 

So I'm still trying to pick off weaker minions so I can out activate my opponent.. the trapper + libby are great for that, Ash's gun can also come in handy, the Ronin's less so...

 

Mouse

[twee]

I maximize healing by taking all the sisters + 1 libby and Survivalist upgrade.

Student sister walks, pushes Ash Vik, (7")

Ash vik pushes Blood vik, walks, pushes Blood again. (another 6")

And then, being pushed 13", Blood has 2ap + 1 upgrade's ap + 1 melee ap.... So you can kill smb at 28" first turn.

So Viks get quite far away from the rest of the crew and I found ronins useless not keeping up with Viks.. and replaced them with snipers - even up to 2 trappers + Hans so that entire crew acts and does it from the first turn.

BTW this is 45SS I usually play

[Kadeton]

A question to those who like to run Bishop/Taelor or other higher cost models with the Viks.  Do you feel you suffer from out-activation?  I stay away from larger investments because I basically do what is described above, but I try to do it after everything in the opposing crew has gone, so Bloody Viks only has to suffer begining of Turn attention, when I am back up to a full hand and get pos. flips on all Df/Wp duels...

 

I run mid-cost/low cost models in my crew and the first thing I do is try to steal Activation control by killing a weaker minion at range ASAP....

I haven't found it to be a problem - as soon as you engage, you should start outnumbering your opponent very quickly. I used to try delaying the Viks' doomsday charge until there weren't any models to threaten them, but I now find it's more effective to worry more about killing off the enemy as quickly as possible rather than keeping the Viktorias alive (I usually wouldn't take them in scenarios where keeping your Master alive is essential - that's what Hamelin or Leveticus are for). It's easier to play to Viktoria's strength than to compensate for her weakness.

That doesn't mean throwing them away needlessly - experience will give perspective on what situations you can jump into for maximum return - it means not being stressed about them dying. Those big beaters you've spent a chunk of your points on can easily mop up any remaining threats while you pursue the objectives.