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Kadeton

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I don't agree with all of the proposed changes, but I really like the quick fix to the Oxford method (yay it's not useless anymore!).

 

As far as Tradition Magic, none of my players have seen it as particularly interesting, even if it is min-maxy. I think this is because the grimoire you begin with comes with magia from two different schools. This leaves you with a school that you can't use (but weren't planning on using anyway) and only one spell that benefits from the positive part of this theory.

 

All in all, I'm not a fan of this Theory.

 

Maybe if it were somehow tied to the grimoire (trappings of the tradition? 

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As far as Tradition Magic, none of my players have seen it as particularly interesting, even if it is min-maxy. 

...

Maybe if it were somehow tied to the grimoire (trappings of the tradition? 

 

Was giving this some thought today. If tradition magic is a thing passed down through the family which has a somewhat uniform form that the practitioners try to expand, tying it to the grimoire is a perfect idea.

 

Check this out:

 

Tradition Magic

Practitioners of Tradition Magic have strong ties to their core magic principles. In some ways it is more a science than an art. As a result, the grimoires held by Tradition casters are unique and tend to hold quite a bit of history. Ultimately, the "Grimoire" is just a focus, as the caster fundamentally knows these Magia and Immuto by heart. They tend to be Rings, Wands, Tarot Cards, Rosarys, or Baubles manipulated while creating magic.

 

Tradition Grimoires are less tomes and more focus objects which a caster has such familiarity that they need only to hold the object to recall its power. A Tradition Magic Practicioner may have two active grimoires at a time, one of which must be their Tradition Grimoire. The caster may use Magia and Immuto out of either of these grimoires. While only having their Tradition Grimoire active, a caster gains the benefits of a Focus Object (-2 TN) without applying the Immuto of the same name.

 

A Tradition Magic Practicioner is so thoroughly tied to their Tradition Grimoire that they are unable to create magical effects from any grimoire without holding their Tradition Device in their hand.

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I like the idea, but it just seems too complicated to me, especially compared to the other theories. I don't think there are any rules right now for adding magia or immuto to an existing grimoire,though some of the grimoires in the examples list alluded to it( like the scroll written in a code that has been partially deciphered). Maybe the talent could have something to do with this?

 

Maybe Tradition magic users get an extra beginning magia, but can never change their active grimoires? So they'd have to rely on growing their grimoire instead of finding new ones.

 

Edit: or if we just wanted to keep the original idea of sacrificing skill in certain schools for more focus on others, we move the categories around? because the biggest complaint I see if that you'd sacrifice a school you wouldn't be using anyway. (graverobbers don't get sorcery, and dabblers don't get necromancy, for example).

 

Maybe you could choose one school to get a [+] on, and the rest of the schools (excluding harness soulstone and counter-spelling) would be limited to a skill rating of 1?

 

I feel like tradition magic is an effort to focus spellcasters when they're already super focused (pursuits talents, access to only 2 schools at creation, linked aspects, etc.) so this isn't my favorite option.

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What's wrong with magic? Is it grossly overpowered to freely teleport 30yards all the time at no cost to your self, when all you need is a 3-4 (av 6-7) in non dramatic time. It's my favorite past time. Bamf I just robbed your store, bamf more Robberys. Fire ball raise damage by +6 tn, plus the increase range by 4-6 puts the tn at 16-18 which sure if it hits does what 5/6/8? Most minions and enforcers can take that on the chin right? I only need 3 of 13 cards Heck I might even flip it. Being a dabbler is fun. Or my fan favorite teleporting a lit stick of dynamite next to my enemies. Since I am not trying to teleport it into their pockets no resist. But I think it's completely unfair some times. For instance, I light this bundle of dynamite that can blow a hole in MT Rushmore. Next ap I teleport the bundle of dynamite just above the targets head. FM what happens to him.

 

I just have one question. How did your FM decide that teleporting dynamite next to anyone could be considered 'a safe location'? Or was the safe part of the rules completely disregarded?

 

EDIT: Yeah the magic rules are grossly overpowered if you have a weak FM who meekly agrees to any old use of anything and disregards some of the rules. Or they have a difficult time making scenes that will challenge a character on another level. Thing with TtB is a character is rarely good at everything. Find the character's weakness and lean on that to challenge both the player and character to be involved in a better story.

 

All rules systems can be deemed broken and can be 'gamed' if players want to and the individual running the game is happy to let it happen. Same with traditional school, I see no problem with it. 1 magic skill out of 6 are limited to 1, so it can still be used just not as well as the others and you get a + flip to your preferred skill. I also note that no where does it say you must have one spell from you bonus skill area and 1 from the penalised area so the grimoire discussion above doesn't make much sense to me.

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The dynamite is in a safe location. No water dampen its spirits. Or sawblades to cut it up.

The intended target is now in an unsafe location. Due to uh ya know well dynamite.

I guess you are trying to extrapolate what is safe. Is malifaux as a whole safe? Therefore you could never ever use teleport. Or is safe a completely general word. But if I teleported into a wall I would consider that unsafe. If I teleported above a pungi pit that I would consider unsafe. But what if I did not know the pit was there. Would spell find that out for me or would the dm let it go off.

So an empty spot of air that fits the object being teleported seems quite safe. Also what if teleported my guard party member next to the enemy is that considered unsafe? I think you read safe location for everything Even though the spell only dictates safe for the target. Which for an object would be anything that doesn't destroy it. Lava, forge,etc.

So having a "feeble fm" no. Having a fm who understands logic and the how the system works. Yes.

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All rules systems can be deemed broken and can be 'gamed' if players want to and the individual running the game is happy to let it happen. Same with traditional school, I see no problem with it. 1 magic skill out of 6 are limited to 1, so it can still be used just not as well as the others and you get a + flip to your preferred skill. I also note that no where does it say you must have one spell from you bonus skill area and 1 from the penalised area so the grimoire discussion above doesn't make much sense to me.

 

It just doesn't feel like a tradition. It feels like a talent. And you're missing the point with the penalized area. the idea is that the practicioner would never even come in contact with the penalized skill. A Dabbler doesn't even get access to necromancy, so it's a plus flip to sorcery and no downside. I'm sorry our discussion doesn't make much sense to you. Let me explain:

 

Dabbler begins with a Sorcery Magia and a Prestidigitation Magia.

Graverobber begins with an Enchanting Magia and a Necromancy Magia.

Tinkerer begins with an Enchanting Magia and a Sorcery Magia

 

Options for tradition magic:

Sorcery and Necromancy

Counter-spelling and Harness Soulstone

Enchanting and Prestiditigation

 

Counterspelling and Harness soulstone is a really good pick, I think. i like this option for tradition magic. I'd actually like to take this as a guard or scrapper character and make a "Mage Hunter" type that eschews all types of magic, including the malifaux soulstones.

 

the other two, though, have no downside for any magical pursuit. It's a boring plus flip to a skill, completely unsupported by the fluff. It's a safe choice, which is fine, but I think we're looking for something that would be more of an overarching "Theory" instead of a talent that we can get for free at the beginning of the game.

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Thing with TtB is a character is rarely good at everything. Find the character's weakness and lean on that to challenge both the player and character to be involved in a better story.

Not sure I agree, Fated characters are actually fairly capable at everything. Most TN's are low enough that even without a skill and negative aspect value a player still stands a decent chance of succeeding most times. This is before considering the potent combination of low aspect value spreads, static resolution, the ability to cheat in cards, alternate methods of accomplishment and failure offsetting/ negating talents and pursuits.

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  • 2 years later...

Few things on this I've not noticed before, but I have a few comments- firstly soulstone value- I fixed the soulstone dust problem by simply taking soulstone dust out of the equation, it will never be seen by my fated and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist. no need to worry about teh pricing of the rest after that. 

The theories are problematic, and I agree with a lot of the comments above, the only defense I'll say is a theory should be part of the character, and for me they should play to match it, if not then the FM needs to give them a 'get into character' nudge- an example is one of my players is a native american shaman dragged into malifaux, he's using tradition magic, but he's really into the tradition thing, he won't use any modern weaponry or equipment, and he's pretty much decided that the 'land spirits' (or Neverborn to the rest of us) are the good guys. this puts him at odds with the guild, some other fated, and has severe disadvantages in a non-magic fight, all great roleplaying points and the all came from his initial choice of tradition theory. (If he's chosen oxfordian I imagine he'd be running around with a massive sack of candles and skulls...) Theories aren't just a word on a card- they should be part of the character, otherwise you may as well just stat some fated up and play malifaux with them. (which may be what you want to do, so hell, go for it). If a player manages to game their stats but roleplays all the advantages and disadvantages then it makes the game better, and makes it much easier to turn the tables on them so everyone has a bit of fun:)

Combat is brutal. Fated will ruin most lower level minions pretty quickly, and at first I took to either swamping them with minions or chucking in multiple enforcers, however I've since realised that it's much easier to throw in situations they can't fight their way out of and challenging their mind more than their card flipping. The weapons are sometimes overpowered, especially custom stuff, so use the whole plethora of malifaux goodies at your disposal to counter them. Have you got an armoured tank- send in things that ignore armour. combat monster great with martial arts or pugilisim? Black blood will teach them a lesson. Master sniper one shotting everything? have your minions use more cover, fast minions that can pop out and shoot before disappearing (run and gun), at the very least Incorporeal will make him think a bit harder about what he's doing. (one wanyudo gave my whole party a bit of a scare) if you make a game easy it will be, so give them reason to think. My players have fairly custom weapons, but by god they paid for them (several soulstones have changed hands and a fair whack of script, plus a mission to rescue the guy who did the work before he'd even consider it) they give them an edge in most fights, but in reality I want the fated to win most of the time, I just want them to think they are going to lose;) 

I think a fair few bits of the original post have been answered in extra books- we know more about grimoires from under quarantine, there is now a character that starts with manifested abilities in Into the Steam, so before people read this and think the game is horribly broken- it's not, and the design team are obviously intent on filling gaps as they go along. 

Finally Teleport- as for the teleporting dynamite, there's a lot of ways to handle this, but as an FM I would allow it with the following procedure- firstly (1AP) I'd require an explosives test to set the charge, as well as a WP test to see if they have the nerve to cut a fuse that short (neg flips on every other action if failed). Then they have the spell itself (1AP) and if that goes well an accuracy test to see how well they place it (not as easy as teleporting yourself) finally the opposing character gets to evade if they have the skill, or just a SP test if they don't. If any part of that lot goes wrong they'd get heavily punished for it (goes off in hand, teleports next to an ally or it gets buried, next time character tried to teleport anything I'd unbury it next to him) I'd also consider giving a character that over-used teleport a condition, possibly haunted? to signify his grip on the material world becoming thinner as he keeps throwing himself in and out of reality. 

This is a really interesting discussion and I'm shocked I've missed it for this long:) 

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