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Found 7 results

  1. I'm wondering exactly when a killing-based Scheme checks to see if it's target has been killed. Does it use the Damage Timing rules? When looking at the Death Beds scheme ("After killing an enemy model within both 2" of one or more friendly scheme markers and one or more of the secretly chosen markers...") and evaluating it for the Bandit crew, I wondered if the Fistful of Scrip ability on Parker, Mad Dog, and Sue ("After this model kills an enemy model, it may Drop a Scheme Marker into base contact with the killed model") allowed me to score Death Beds easily. If I'm allowed to drop Markers before revealing the scheme, then I can choose Corpse (or Scrap) Markers, and drop both relevant markers when killing an enemy to easily score the Reveal condition. This seemed too good to be true, but I wanted to check the rules to verify it couldn't work. But looking at the two relevant sections of the rulebook, I feel like the rules contradict themselves on this point. The Damage Timing rules on page 34 list a detailed order of operations. On this list, 6a deals with healing or replacing a killed model, then 6b tells you to "Resolve any After killing Triggers", but I assume this means only literal triggers of actions and not all effects (The rules for Triggers describe them as additional results of a duel which require a specific suit, which means the definition used in the rule book is very narrow.) Then step 6c is "Any effects that resolve after the model is killed (such as placing any Corpse or Scrap Markers) resolve at this point." This seems to imply that both the Fistful of Scrip ability to drop a scheme marker, and the Reveal effect of the scheme, both occur in this step. If that's true, the rules for simultaneous effects mean the Active Player (in this case, the Bandit player) can choose the order of resolving their effects. Meaning I can drop the scheme marker from Fistful of Scrip, then drop a Corpse marker, and then reveal Death Beds, scoring the point. However the rules for Killed, on page 25, state (emphasis mine): "When a model is killed, any Healing effects or effects that result in the killed model being Replaced happen first, followed by any other effects that occur when, if, or after the model is killed. Then, the killed model Drops any Markers as a result of being killed and is removed from the game (including its Stat Card and Attached Upgrades). For more information on timing, see page 34." This list begins and ends the same as step 6 of the damage timing, but it gets fuzzy in the middle. It seems to imply that all "After killing" effects happen in step 6b of Damage Timing, not just Triggers. This would mean that Death Beds checks its Reveal condition in step 6b, and Fistful of Scrip (as well as dropping a Corpse Marker) occur afterwards in step 6c, and I don't score the point. Regardless of the specifics of this question, I feel like this section is not an accurate summary of the Damaging Timing rules. Is there something I'm missing that defines when a killing-based Scheme resolves? If not I assume it's part of "Any effects" in step 6c. And, separately, is there a discrepancy between the Killed rules on page 25 and the Damage Timing on page 34, or am I misreading it? I appreciate any help with resolving this!
  2. If a model dies due to damage from Hazardous Terrain it was pushed/placed/moved into by another model, is the model that generated the push/place/move it considered as a killer?
  3. Get right to the good stuff... The scenario: Bete Noir starts the game buried. A void wretch uses it's Void Maw on the first activation and reduces Bete Noir to 0 wounds. NOW - The rule book on buried model states that: "When a model is buried it is removed from play... The model is not counted as killed or sacrificed when it is buried. Buried models cannot Activate. In addition, buried models are never considered to be in LoS or within range of effects. These models do not count as "in play" for the purposes of other rules that reference whether or not a model is in play. Buried models still process Conditions and other effects that happen at the end of the Turn (such as the Burning or Poison Conditions). If a model becomes buried during its Activation, end its Activation (it loses all AP and moves to the End Activation Step). - So far nothing about not being able to use ABILITIES Dead & Buried It is possible for models to be killed while they are buried, albeit somewhat rarely. If a model that is buried is killed, it will not benefit from any abilities that happen on the model's death (like Finish the Job). In addition, models that are buried at the end of the game count as killed for Encounter victory purposes. - Ok, so now we have that IF the model is KILLED (not reduced to zero wounds, but KILLED) it may not benefit from ABILITIES. Further, we have the FAQ that states: Pg. 29, “Triggers” Section: Add the following text to the last paragraph: “Models may not declare Triggers during Disengaging Strikes or while Buried unless explicitly noted otherwise.” - So now we have established that a model cannot declare a TRIGGER while buried. Now the tricky part, the wording on Bete Noir's card: "When this model IS REDUCED TO 0 WOUNDS, it may immediately take the (1) One With the Night Action before COUNTING AS KILLED. If the action succeeds, this model IS NOT KILLED." Then we have "One With the Night" "Bury this model and then remove all Conditions and heal all damage on this model." Ok, so here's my problem. In the above scenario the Void Wretch reduced Bete to 0 which then leads to Bete being able to declare her ability. The rulebook states that IF the model is KILLED, they cannot benefit from abilities that happen on their death, but this ability happens BEFORE she's counted as killed. So, can Bete then RE-Bury? as strange as that sounds. The RAW seems to address models that are killed while buried not having access to abilities and the FAQ seems to address models that are buried not having access to their triggers... but Bete's wording seems to wiggle around them. So, can you help? Is Bete dead for good in the above scenario, or is she the lone model in Malifaux that could truly be unkillable (granted the flip goes your way)?
  4. Hello! I have a question about two moment of rules... Scheme "Eliminate the Leadership" and concept of word "Death". 1. If model dead - is it have 0 Wounds? Or "it is just dead and enough"? 2. Second point in "Eliminate the Leadership": "The first time the enemy Leader is reduced below half of their starting Wounds, score 1 VP". If Leader will dead in the end of game through buried - "he is have 0 Wounds" (and below half of his starting Wounds) or "he is just dead and that's all"?
  5. I am quite confused on how is the timing supposed to work with abilities and triggers that are resolved when model dies and with dying in general. 1: Do abilities and triggers that happen when model dies and after model dies happen at the same time? (Think explosive demise and Snow Storm's Gorge trigger for example.) 2: Are after model is killed triggers resolve before/after/at the same time when after damaging triggers? 3: What about after failing/succeeding/resolving triggers? 4: What happens when model is killed (reduced to 0 wounds) before it's own action is resolved? Does the action still get resolved normally? (Think attacking model taking damage from Lynch's defensive trigger and also triggering something that is resolved after damaging like overpower.) 5: Are triggers/abilities that happen when/after model is reduced to 0 wounds resolved before/after/at the same time as when/after killed triggers/abilities. Bonus question: The defensive triggers that all Riders have, do you apply the reduction twice against attacks caused by overpower and similar triggers? I would really appreciate if your answers included the word 'because'.
  6. Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I've had a search but cannot find it. If a model is Sacrificed, is it also killed or are they distinct and separate conditions? Specifically a Desperate Mercenary, if killed, can cause an healing flip for another model, but if he's sacrificed, can he still cause this flip? Thanks
  7. Situation: Sonia Criid kills Von Schill with violation of magic. Von Schill uses slow to die to spend a soulstone for a healing flip and heals 1 Wd. Von Schill is no longer killed. What happens? 1) A Witchling Stalker is summoned to Von Schill after he makes his healing flip even though he is not removed from play. 2) A Witching Stalker is summoned to Von Schill before he takes his slow to die action. 3) When Von Schill would be removed from play at any other point later in the game, a Witchling Stalker would first be summoned to him. 4) Von Schill's being no longer killed canceled all effects that trigger off of him being killed and no Witchling Stalker would be summoned from that cast of violation of magic.
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