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Found 2 results

  1. I'm wondering exactly when a killing-based Scheme checks to see if it's target has been killed. Does it use the Damage Timing rules? When looking at the Death Beds scheme ("After killing an enemy model within both 2" of one or more friendly scheme markers and one or more of the secretly chosen markers...") and evaluating it for the Bandit crew, I wondered if the Fistful of Scrip ability on Parker, Mad Dog, and Sue ("After this model kills an enemy model, it may Drop a Scheme Marker into base contact with the killed model") allowed me to score Death Beds easily. If I'm allowed to drop Markers before revealing the scheme, then I can choose Corpse (or Scrap) Markers, and drop both relevant markers when killing an enemy to easily score the Reveal condition. This seemed too good to be true, but I wanted to check the rules to verify it couldn't work. But looking at the two relevant sections of the rulebook, I feel like the rules contradict themselves on this point. The Damage Timing rules on page 34 list a detailed order of operations. On this list, 6a deals with healing or replacing a killed model, then 6b tells you to "Resolve any After killing Triggers", but I assume this means only literal triggers of actions and not all effects (The rules for Triggers describe them as additional results of a duel which require a specific suit, which means the definition used in the rule book is very narrow.) Then step 6c is "Any effects that resolve after the model is killed (such as placing any Corpse or Scrap Markers) resolve at this point." This seems to imply that both the Fistful of Scrip ability to drop a scheme marker, and the Reveal effect of the scheme, both occur in this step. If that's true, the rules for simultaneous effects mean the Active Player (in this case, the Bandit player) can choose the order of resolving their effects. Meaning I can drop the scheme marker from Fistful of Scrip, then drop a Corpse marker, and then reveal Death Beds, scoring the point. However the rules for Killed, on page 25, state (emphasis mine): "When a model is killed, any Healing effects or effects that result in the killed model being Replaced happen first, followed by any other effects that occur when, if, or after the model is killed. Then, the killed model Drops any Markers as a result of being killed and is removed from the game (including its Stat Card and Attached Upgrades). For more information on timing, see page 34." This list begins and ends the same as step 6 of the damage timing, but it gets fuzzy in the middle. It seems to imply that all "After killing" effects happen in step 6b of Damage Timing, not just Triggers. This would mean that Death Beds checks its Reveal condition in step 6b, and Fistful of Scrip (as well as dropping a Corpse Marker) occur afterwards in step 6c, and I don't score the point. Regardless of the specifics of this question, I feel like this section is not an accurate summary of the Damaging Timing rules. Is there something I'm missing that defines when a killing-based Scheme resolves? If not I assume it's part of "Any effects" in step 6c. And, separately, is there a discrepancy between the Killed rules on page 25 and the Damage Timing on page 34, or am I misreading it? I appreciate any help with resolving this!
  2. There are 5 models: Attacker and 4 enemy models (Defender and 3 other models (A, B, C) with 1 wound each). The Attacker attack the Defender and deal damage with . Models A, B, C are under Marker and should be damaged. Model A has Demise(Explosive) and Models B and C in 2" from Model A. The owner of enemy models choose to resolve damage on Model A first. In step 6.a. of Damage Timing Demise should be resolved. After resolve damage timing of Model A, Demise should deal damage to Models B and C. Question: who kills Models B and C (Attacker or Model A) and why? P.S. A similar situation can occur with and Shockwave, Black Blood and other abilities, that deal damage after suffering damage.
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