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Hipper Hopper Table Toper

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    Berlin, Germany
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    Understanding Malifaux, Playing Malifaux

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  1. Are you asking because, there is written "Outside" in the Text?
  2. The model which is pushed must end its move in engagment range. So if it has an attack which has 1" range it needs to be in 1" at the end of this Push. P.26/engagment paragraph 1: "Every model has an engagement range based on the range of its longest y Action. If an enemy model is within a friendly model’s engagement range and the friendly model has LoS to the enemy model, the friendly model is considered to be engaging the enemy model..." Thats my point of view. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  3. Yeah, I found after Adran told me. I thought the upgrade card itself is called Pilot. But thank you. Very kind of you.👍🙃
  4. Where can I find the Pilot upgrase? In the app (browser) is no such upgrade.
  5. Yes. This explains where you stand. Too me the manual can be misleading there. But I sounds reasonable, what you are saying. Sorry for the long discussion. Thank you and the other people for taking the time and explaining things. I appreciate that vrey much. 👍 cheers
  6. OK. I have to think about this. Right now I'm not realy convinced, that you are right. But I'm also not convinced anymore, that I'm right. Actually I'm confused because one of my post`s has been marked as the answer. Who can do this? Does this mean my perspective is correct?
  7. I think no, because the sheme of "A Fistful of Scrip" appears after you killed the model and therewith it isn't there in the moment you do the kill. look. P.34/ 6c There it is.
  8. Ok. The main qestion is: Do abilities have Targets? Adran says no. Or to be fair he says the anwser might be wrong. (Thats one point where my english lacks training, but I think I got this right.) But I say: I think they have targets. Mainly because of two entrys in the manual. Both on P.33 1. Bury/ Paragraph 2: "Buried models cannot be the target of any Actions or Abilities..." 2. "once per" Effects/ Parapraph 4: "Some of these effects have additional modifiers, such as being limited to targeting a specific model..." The first indicates that there are abilties which targets something. And the second as well, because I cant be limited in targeting, when there is no targeting. In my opinion is the phrase "this model" or specific name a declaration of a Target. While phrases like: a friendly model, a enemy model are unspecified target declarations. Even if activ abilities goes automatically in effect as soon as the requirements are fullfilled, does they have a Target, which defines on what the effect appeals. So? What do you think? Do abilities have targets?
  9. 1. ) No. Every Attack Action tells you It has to have a Target. P.23/ step 3: Targeting/ Parapraph 2 says: "If the Action requires a target, the target must be declared at this step." Attack actions are Actions that require a Target. And you have to specify the target. If I take an Attack Action then I name the Target. Lets say the Target is Tara. So I could also write "Tara suffers 2/3/4 damage" on the Card of my Attacking model instead of "Target suffers 2/3/4 damage" But since you can take Attack Actions agains any model there is only written "Target" Lets say this Attack Action could hit all enemy models with in range. (Obviously this would be totaly insane and OP, but it would possible) Then it would have something written there like "Targets suffers 2/3/4 damage" and therewith I could write "Enemy Models suffers 2/3/4 damage" if I would choose to attack the enemy. 2.) Where is this Term defined? I get you right you refer to P.23/ step 3: Targeting/ Parapraph 2. If thats the case I have to mention that this is just a part of the explaintion how Actions are resolved, at least in my opinion. Because there are certain Actions wich can be used on different targets and therefor needs the Target to be specified. Thats the reason why this step exists in this part of the manual. If every action would have a clear target, this step would be unnecessary. If you still not convinced than look at P.33/ "once per" effects It says in paragraph 1 : "A model can only take an Action or Ability" Like an action I have to take abilities (If they are not passive). It says furthermore in paragraph 3: "...so a given model could... take multiple (once per Activation) effects so long as they were on different Actions or Abilities. ..." So thats my point, an Action or Ability has an effect which comes into effect when the action or ability is taken. To take an action or active ability one must fullfill the special limitation requirments. You argue it says "once per Activation" and therewith isn't relevant to our discussion. But I think this is the part of the manual where it is unclear. furthermore says the last paragraph: "Some of these effects have additional modifiers, such as being limited to targeting a specific model..." It says there are modifiers which limits a effect his available targets. But It has a target.
  10. First of all I want to say that I want no bad Blood. Nor do I sit here and ask myself which possibilities I have to stress any of the very helpfull and dedicated People in this this Forum. Therefore don´t get my constanly replies on this topic, as some hostile action. Also keep in mind that I need to use the dictionary in many cases. So there will be moments where I misunderstand things. And I'm also awere of the Fact that you are obviously more experienced, than I am. Much more. But none the less can also a very good teacher misunderstand something because nobody is perfect. And I think thats the case here. I think the phrase on P. 33 is not, like Maniacle_cackle stated, "pointless or redundant". I think its written there with reason. But I have say that this rule is unclear described. In my Opinion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Use of target/ special restriction terms Who gets affected? Its not only the Modell with the Ability. And what/ whom do the ability affect? If you look at P.23/ Step3: Targeting It says: "In addition to costs, special restrictions are also written in italics and restrict the Action in some way, such as limiting the Action to targeting Friendly models only, or non-Construct models only." a) YES! I know it says "written in italics and restrict the Action" so It don't apply here because we are talking about Abilities, not Actions. But if you look at this Step (Step3: Targeting) and at the Special Restriction Box at P.23, you will see that there are the same Terms like the ability descriptions. Why is that? Because an Ability needs a Target which is then affected by the effect of this Ability. b) You stated somewhere above: "No they aren't. This ability doesn't target a model. It does affect Tara, but it doesn't target Tara." (sorry I'm not sure how to quote in the middle of a reply) I say the effect which is triggerd, when the Special restrictions are fulfilled is the thing which affects the Target. In your example it would be Tara. c) You also wrote somewhere above: "Just to say that you are not "targeted" by an aura. Target is a game term, and if an action or an ability does not say that it targets a model, then the models it effects are not targeted by that action/ability. (Can matter for things like Terrifying which will only happen if you target that model. ) " If the underlined part is true, then a normal attack action couldn't be taken. I mean none of them specify a Target. I mean it's neccesary to have one, but there is no target described. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Term: Abilities (the what) !!! Entries regarding the Term ablity are only on Page 4/5/24 !!! a) On P.24/ Abilities is written: "Models have a range of Abilities that affect how they function on the table." In my opinion these Sentence does not say Models are affected by an ability. But rather it says the the way how a Modell works/function is affected. b) P.4/ Models/ 3rd paragraph says: "Each model also has Abilities, which grant the character unique ways to deal with situations. This can include immunities, special ways to defend or move, or anything that isn’t already described by the model’s statistics." This sentence predicates pretty much the same like the sentence above (a)). At least in my opinion. Models have abilities which alteres the way they work by giving them "...immunities, special ways to defend or move..." and other things. c) P.4/ Stat Cards/ nr.7 Abilities says: "Models have Abilities that change how they interact with the rules, such as making the model difficult to damage or changing how it moves. A model’s Abilities are always considered to be active during an Encounter unless otherwise indicated in their description." The underlined part predicates once again, the same like a) and b) allready do. Lets keep the second Part in Mind for later. Look under 3. Abilities (when) d) P.33/ "Once per" effect says: "A model can only take an Action or Ability that is once per Activation once during an Activation. A model can only take an Action or Ability that is once per Turn once on any given Turn." So once again abilities are in most/ some cases an aktiv thing. You have tu take/use that Ability. Further more it says in the last paragraph: "Some of these effects have additional modifiers, such as being limited to targeting a specific model once per Activation. These work the same way, with the specific limitations mentioned." One could argue that this only applys to "once per" effects. But why do a whole lot of other Abilities have this restriction too? e) P.5/ green box bottom right says: "The big things to remember: Abilities ... are things that your characters are always doing, and Actions ... are things that they do when it’s their time to shine (aka their Activation)." Here it says that caracters are doing Abilities. so it is somehow an action. I don't mean the game term I mean its something that the Model is actually doing. Not something which affects the Model. This is everything which I could found regarding the definition of the term abilities, as I looked it up. Like I wrote at the start of this post, nobody is perfect. So let me know if I missed something. If I don't missed something, than your Statement: "This ability doesn't target a model. It does affect Tara, but it doesn't target Tara." is false. Because an ability does't affect a model but rather the effect which is caused by the Ability when the Special restriction are fullfilled... AS LONG... they are activ (look up 3.) My Definition of Ability: 1. An Ability is (Surprise) an ability which can/ must(?) be taken if they are activ. 2.Which grants effects that alter the gameplay of this model. 2a) This can be passive, so that this ability is always concidered as aktiv. 2b) Or it can be activ, which means it can/needs (?) to be taken when the restrictions for this ability are fullfilled. 3. Abilities (the when) a) P.24/ Abilities/ 2nd paragraph says: "Most Abilities are passive, meaning that they are always in effect. Some Abilities, however, are active and create certain effects in reaction to other events on the table. When an active Ability goes into effect, resolve the effect step by step in the order it is listed on the Ability." a1) Passive "Most Abilities are passive, meaning that they are always in effect..." E.g. Hard to wound, Ruthless, Armor, Beyond Time (Tara), Flameborn (Banasuva), Eyes on the Prize (Lord Cooper), gunfighter (Sue) All this abilities have one thing in common. They have no special restriction terms like: when model do this, at the start of the activation, etc. Thats why these Abilities are always in effect aka. passive. a2) Activ "Some Abilities, however, are active and create certain effects in reaction to other events on the table" E.g. Demise/ elemental breakdown (Banasuva), Entropy (Ashen Core), The most dangerous Game (Lord Cooper) AND Cruel Disappointment (Titania) And this ability was the starting point. All this abilities have another thing in common. They need to be taken if the special restriction are fullfilled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Round Up: The Ability in question is: Cruel Disappointment (Titania) which reads as follow: "When a friendly model within3 would suffer severe damage, it suffers Moderate damage instead. " Do this ability work if Titania is buried and loose due to an Attack all its Healtpoints. I say no because: 1. its an aktiv Ability and has to be taken(Look up 3.) 2. Buried Models can't be targeted by abilities which do not specifically target buried models. (P.33/ Bury) 3.It has aditional modifiers/ restrictions which dictates a target (The underlined parts of the rule are the restrictions, the Target is written in Fat letters ) 4. The Aura is only the effect of this ability. So it doesnt matter what's written on P. 30/ Area effects because the abililty which grants this aura can't be taken. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I have a lot of real good arguments on my side. But like I said: "Nobody's perfect." I'm typing since aproximatly 5h. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think so. But if yes, i could train my english skills a bit.👍 And since I typed ability so often, I will do it once more and tell you that I have an ability, which alters my letters and therewith possibly the grammar. Is reads as follow: "If you type sOme Text oN The Computer, You may may press Often The ShifT Botton. You may read the Whole Text again to correct it, but you dont have to." This is the reason for any wrong capital letters. cheers
  11. which terms should be written there to make clear that this ability needs a target?
  12. But why it says: "Buried models cannot be the target of any ... Abilities that do not specifically target Buried models." on p. 33 under Buried? This is pointless rule if abilities dont target a Unit in general. and: yes... you are right. the Aura doesnt target a unit. But the ability which grants an Aura does.
  13. But aren't Phrases like "this Modell" or "friendly modell" Target specifications? E.g. Beyond Time from Tara : This Modell may target Buried models with Actions, ignoring range and LoS. The Target of this Ability is "this Modell". Am I wrong? 2. And The Cruel Disappointment Aura is part of an Ability from Titania. At least its listet at the frontside of her card which has the Topic "Abilities".
  14. I think he is right in this specific point. "These Actions ignore all game effects relating to the position of the Buried model, such as range, LoS, a, p, moving the Buried model, etc." Because the modell isnt't there it ignores all this stuff, because this things need the modell to be there. E.g: Tara/ Soulstone sword+ Beyond Time: Tara acctualy need a Target in range, but there is no modell which can be targeted, because this modell is buried. So her Attack Action can ignore range and LoS.
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