Yore Huckleberry

Honestly the easiest errata would just be to change Security Defenses to read "Target a friendly pylon marker. Push the target up to 3" to a location not within 2" of any Strategy marker. Then, Drop a scheme marker into base contact with it." Because they already have to begin at least 3" away, this would prevent it from blocking access to a symbol of authority.

Offhand, Master-gated tech includes: Colette 1/2: unlocks Dorian Crowe Hoffman 2: the mirror has bulldoze Kaeris 1: Burn it all trigger I'm not sure there's tech in Arcanists that isn't master-gated. I'll add it.

So, I played Hoffman: Inventor in 2 out of 3 rounds of a tournament yesterday (the Schemes and Stones/Steampowered Scoundrels meta). I spent some time trying to be objective about how powerful the Pylon markers are -- specifically, how much power comes from them being impassable and not destructible (which is a common suggestion for "nerfing" the new master). My first game was flank corrupted Ley Lines with a building in the center of the map. I won attacker, and the building was a rectangle with three doors, so I gave my opponent the blank-wall side (concealing windows to shoot in/out), and I used one of my pylon markers to block off his nearest door. As a result, he had limited access to that scoring point. My opponent was a Bayou player. So: how "broken" was this? My Tournament Rounds First: the blank wall and his deployment zone This was determined by the randomized round one attacker/defender flip; 100% of masters in the game could have done that to him. He knew his deployment at that point, so if he had a faction with flight, incorporeal, or terrain-ignoring movement (Emissary in Bayou), he could have had access to that center marker even if the Hoffman I declared turned out to be Inventor and I placed one or more Pylons in his way. Second: Scoring Impact. Explicitly: he scored three of four corrupted ley lines markers. The fourth was as much prevented by Hoffman's damage output as it was by his inability to access the central building (which he DID enter with a lodestone model on turn 3 before I was able to kill it). So I made things challenging, but the building itself gave me as big a chance to set up for a controlled center encounter as any pylon shenaniganery. Extrapolating: obviously, we don't know what he couldn't score because of the extra AP sunk into walking around, or the exposure he had to take on the opposite flank to prevent me from just setting up camp in the building. Again, I'd suggest that the terrain here was a bigger factor than the pylons. Third: access to marker movement/removal/bypassing. Moving to slightly more general observations. Factions are not equally balanced here, though Malifaux Burns introduced a TON of new marker removal options (many master-gated). A quick (non-exhaustive) analysis of marker removal tech-picking ease: Explorer's Society: Treasure Map upgrade for 2 stones gives any model a bonus action to remove a target marker. Powerful and versatile tech, good for anti-scheming. In my round 3 game I faced 2 of these and ended the game with only 1 pylon marker standing. Guild: Guild Mage is a 7-stone versatile with a bonus that requires a discard to remove a marker (triggering a 1/2/3 heal based on w/m/s). Good tech in a faction mirror against Inventor. Watchers for oblique play. Ten Thunders: Lotus Eaters get a free 3" push towards a marker w/in 3 at the end of their activation, removing it to heal 2. I expect to see these taken ook vs Hoffman, though you lose some value if you get baited by it into Hoffman 1. Thunders also has flying models for oblique play. Bayou: Gluttony, Wrastlers, Mancha Roja: the wrestlers need to be close, but get to swing the pylon at an enemy for fun and profit. Gluttony has a 10" willpower cast that could conceivably pop more than one marker at a time, reposition an enemy, and deal damage all at once. Neverborn: the somewhat expensive (7+1) Dorian Crowe has a decent WP attack to move a target (including a friendly) and remove a marker it ends in contact with. Also incorporeal and Don't Mind Me, this probably ranks NB above Bayou for the value you'll get out of the model you're teching in. Neverborn oblique play might involve flight, depending on how things are getting blocked. Ressers: tech is a bit harder here. Corpse Curator is your cheapest option with Drag Behind to move a marker. Molly 1 and McMourning 2 are master-gated options. (The best resser defense is obviously that they're just going to be playing against Lady J instead anyway, amirite?). Ressers oblique play probably involves incorporeal or flight. Outcasts: Scavengers have a non-suited trigger, otherwise you have Mastergated Von Schill 2 (bulldoze), Zipp (can bring wrastlers/Mancha), or Parker (can bring Bayou Smuggler for Drag Behind to move, not remove). Outcasts oblique play probably involves bringing one or more incorporeal model, depending on what you're worried about pylons doing. Arcanists: Neil Henry has bulldoze. All other tech seems to be master-gated -- Collette 1/2 can hire Dorian Crowe; Kaeris 1 has a burn it all trigger; Hoffman 2 is the mirror match with bulldoze access. So, there are niche cases (Outcasts into Guild for Symbols of Authority with a lot of terrain that can block access may feel a need to declare Von Schill, who is generally good into that strat and can all-comers the current scheme set) where a combination of strat/board/faction might force a narrow choice, but there is no faction that is fully shut-out of dealing even with the hardest set of conditions of Hoffman pylon positioning and strat setup. Fourth: my round three game In round 3, my opponent was Explorers, the board was cluttered, and research mission (and death beds) was in the pool. Honestly, I should probably have just audible'd into Hoffman 1, but I wanted to try the new title. Suffice to say, with reference to the above, my pylons were more hindrance than help this game (Eva even lock-down'd one to stop Hoffman from taking actions until I moved very precisely away), and I ended the game with only one on the board. In the game I did with Brien on Schemes and Stones, Inventor vs Ironheart, a pylon in my own way stopped me from scoring research mission with a model. I had "cleverly" placed it to block Arik coming to punch me, and then the next round I realized I couldn't get out. So again, help turned to hindrance, and the placement of these things (pre-game and during) adds decision points where the Hoffman player can make a mistake, especially since they start on his own side. The Master's Workshop? One thing to consider is that the non-destructible-traited markers give Hoffman: Inventor a really unique mechanic. It helps define how he affects the board, and starts on his half, taking some work to get to the other half. Balancing that unique play strength against the capacity for counterplay from the opponent is a legitimate critical question, but it doesn't automatically swing to a nerf just because his strength makes it hard to play against him. Similarly, there's a question around how the crew design works and the need for access to power tokens. If the four pylons were destructible, rendering them vulnerable to any general AP, or a broadened variety of tech from different factions, the crew's ability to play in Hoffman 2 is weakened, and the push towards versatiles and away from keyword models is strengthened. One potential balance could be to add to the number of starting markers (e.g., 6 instead of 4) -- but then removing them all would tax the opposing AP more significantly. The Competitive vs Casual Question One complaint I've heard is that an experienced player could really stomp a noob with Hoffman 2, since newer players don't have the full factions to tech, or might not know to tech in the matchup. I don't take this super seriously, though, because 1) an experienced 'Faux player can always stomp a noob and 2) if experienced players aren't already following Wheaton's Law when introducing people to the game, we've got a prior problem in the chain of events. On the other end: I think each faction should have one or more masters that really require thoughtful counterpicking. Part of the joy of this game for many of us is getting a really elegant balance in the core-crew/scoring/counterteching builds we apply on the fly at a given tournament when we sit down and look at terrain, faction, and opponent, and some of those questions should be harder than others to keep a productive tension with netdecking and steady-crew'ing. Tl;dr? Hoffman's pylon positioning is strong. It's a real threat and needs to be respected. In high end play, it will create problems that are really difficult for some factions to solve, especially if terrain lines up properly. I'm not sure I spent longer brain-breaking on this than I did on, say, handling Nekima 1 after Andre's LVO win last year, but it's a real puzzle for players to solve for their own playstyle and faction. Should it be immediately nerfed? I don't think so. The above can be a starting guide to managing Hoffman: Inventor for anyone who hasn't started brainstorming about it yet for their own matchups. But let's give this some time and see what comes out of our, shall we say, workshop.

One note about dynamic vs static is that presumably everyone would expect that if a model discarded its upgrade (e.g., in response to Greed's "take it all" trigger on Unchecked Avarice), the model would lose those abilities. But I think that's also basically the expectation of what we might call a static-interactive approach as opposed to static-absolute -- e.g., the upgrade applies the trigger, but it is still subject to other game effects. The question of gunfighter or mimic would then be engaged by suggesting the abilities referencing the attack make note of the trigger that is applied there, but effects that reference the upgrade can alter what it has done.

The two "dynamic" options for when the trigger is added would basically be 1) during the range check, the upgrade "notices" that the attack has a ranged nature and temporarily adds it to the attack for its duration 2) during the declare triggers step, the upgrade "notices" that a set of triggers for a ranged attack is being populated by referencing the stat card, and jumps in to add an additional one The "static" option would be A) the upgrade adds the armor piercing trigger to all ranged attacks of the model when the upgrade is attached, and if the attack is thereafter modified, the trigger is included

I actually think that if you had something like "Extendable Claw: this model may discard a card to change the range of this attack to a 8" attack," and they had an upgrade called "poisoned claws: add +1 poison to damage from attacks," people would immediately intuit that the poison upgrade would stay when the attack's range was extended.

I think Nellie's at a really interesting point, but she could use another strong debuffer in faction to help her lock folks down. Being able to double up slow and distracted onto a bubble crew is really strong. The fact that you can pile focus up with newsies, the totem, or false witnesses is pretty good, too. Lot of efficiency, and some forgiveness if her own distracted winds up piled a bit too high on friendlies.

Looking forward to it!

I'll be there!

I'd agree that Guild's movement limitations are board and terrain dependent (and therefore maybe meta dependent, depending on whose terrain you're using?). I also think Grimwell is a model that is massively underutilized 3 AP generalist, even if Midnight Stalker (OG and current) is a strictly better solo actor. As for needing suits for combat, Nellie and Lucius both bring huge kits of card draw options to the table, which means that our beater masters just have to learn how to borrow from their friends. Guild also has an insane amount of countertech for particular masters, models, and situations, once you invest in the whole faction. The Jury and Alison Dade in particular can shut down quite a few things, and Augmented has powerful answers to masters like Zoraida and English Ivan that have popular and powerful followings. We also have good models with exorcism triggers, and effects like Crowd Control on the Brutal Emissary that are very strong against particular things, if you get a good read on where and when to make sure they're in your crew. LLC is powerful in tight scoring mechanisms for Laugh Off, and No Prisoners can stop some offensive hazardous and shockwave actions cold. But all of that requires reading the board, the pool, and the opponent to a higher degree, or stumbling into it by good fortune and practice with the models. Guild definitely rewards "playing the faction" over "playing the keyword," and seems to do so to a higher degree than other factions (Bayou, Neverborn, Arcanists, Thunders) which feels a bit awkward given how much we celebrate the M3E focus on keyword mechanics and playability, but Outcasts, ES, and to some extent Ressers seem to do the grab-bag approach to crew selection as well.

I thought I'd do the recreational math on a Dashel executioner summon, partly for @Khyodee, who had to face 3 of them over 3 rounds in the last game we played. The Base Probability: To summon an executioner, Dashel needs: 13 Ram, Red Joker, or 13 + stone for ram (5 cards of 54) I used this calculator and took the bottom value (you need AT LEAST one of the 5 relevant cards) https://rgbstudios.org/replacement-calc/?N=54&m=5&n=7&k=1 So, in a 6 card draw of 54 cards, the probability of AT LEAST one of the 5 cards you need is: Base Probability of Executioner Summon Card: 36.9% Dashel has this probability if he forgets to hire any models and just shows up with his totem with no plan. Sounds high? Remember, this is the probability of having ANY of the five cards, PLUS the probability of having any combination of the five cards. The probability of having, say, all five in a six card hand is FAR lower, at 0.00018%. So Dashel players are going to draw their summon card in a starting hand a bit over 1/3 of the time. So why does it seem like they ALWAYS have access to it? Let's run some more numbers: Stoning for Cards: Stoning essentially means we have an 8-card pool instead of a 6-card pool: Probability of Hand + Stones for an executioner: 56.7% So if your Dashel opponent stoned for cards, it is likelier than not that they started with at least one king or red joker. Sure, it fails to happen plenty of times, but it is literally "not unlikely" to happen at this point. Tools for the Job: Bringing a Guild Lawyer lets you add Tools for the Job to the math. This is tricky math. The set of cards it might let you pick up is something like this: n activations before Dashel (summoning opportunity) * X distinct cards on the top of your discard pile (a model walk-focusing doesn't change the top-card, so this takes active management) Plus, the opponent can interact with this. Did you use your Guild Steward to use Foul Mouth Motivation and flip the red joker on the heal flip, then immediately stop your activation? Hans can just focus-shoot anything just to force a card to flip, and at least one of your five summon cards becomes inaccessible this round. This is mitigated a bit because if you're using Tools to search for a summon card, then your odds of flipping one again is working from a smaller set of 54 cards - 6 card hand - 2 cards stoning - 1 initiative flip, so a minimum of 4/45 odds that even if they make you flip one card, it still might be a second summon card. But anyway: we can at least reliably show the math of a Guild Lawyer accessing an initiative flip card, with the assumption that this gives the Guild player initiative and the opportunity to start with the lawyer and pick the card up. If the opposing player can cheat a 13 to force it to flip away, that changes this math, but we'll ignore that case for now, between the base odds, player choice, and deployment zone distances. Base hand (6) + stone for cards (2) + initiative flip Tools for the Job (1) = 61.4% We're now up to 61.4% with tools for the job, just off of the initiative flip. Key points for Guild players maximizing tools options: - You will probably have about 5 chances with this: initiative flip, plus five models activating before the lawyer, then Dashel. (A high case of 6+2+5 unique Tools chances = 76.3% chance) - You want to be careful NEVER to flip on a negative if you're spending round 1 hunting for a summon card: the red joker will rise to the top, but any flipped king will be buried by any weaker card, and your odds of finding one drop significantly The Lawyer also brings a Surge trigger on his bonus action. The odds impact here is a bit tricky because of the interaction with Tools and the fact that if you Tools a card, you don't need the case where you Surge-draw a card, and vice versa, but if we treat it as a strict opportunity to draw one more card (on the assumption that having NO summon cards in hand raises the odds of having at least one 4Tome+ or flipping it on the bonus) the odds should rise to about 65.4%. After a Lawyer's activation, the Dashel player has close to a 2/3 chance of having an executioner summon card. Dispatcher and Steward: A lesser-known interaction: The Guild Steward's Protection Money ability allows him to draw cards whenever an enemy scheme marker is dropped within aura-6". This can be cheesed out by the Guard crew with things like "Drop it!" (Dashel can stone for this on his gun), but those are difficult to set up on your initial turn, and if Dashel is doing it to try for his summon card, you're in to desperation math ... although if you've exhausted all the other cases, the odds of this play having an impact have also gone up a bit. The interaction you have better control over is this: The Dispatcher's Internal Affairs trigger on his Consolidate Power bonus action allows you, on a 5Masks+, to choose and remove a friendly scheme marker within 2" of the target that was moved (which must be a friendly minion -- say, a Lawyer). This causes you to drop an enemy scheme marker (triggering a draw from the Guild Steward), AND remove the friendly scheme marker involved (you have the Dispatcher treat himself as this with Aethervox Broadcaster, and he then draws a second card). So if you have a 5Masks+ in hand at any point, you can draw 2 more cards. So: we remove 1-4M and 13M (it's already in the odds as a summon card), and the odds of having 5-12M (8 cards) in hand are: - Base hand (6): 63.7% - Base hand + stone (8): 74.9% - Base hand + stone + initiative Tools (9): 79.2% etc. So about an 80% chance of cycling two cards. Admittedly, if you've got a 12M, you might rather keep it and summon a mounted guard with a stone. But you could also cycle it for 2 cards: Base hand (6) + stone (2) + Internal Affairs (2) + Initiative Tools (1): 69.6% Base hand (6) + stone (2) + Internal Affairs (2) + Initiative Tools (1) + Lawyer Surge (1): 73.1% Diminishing Returns: You might be tempted to add a second lawyer, but it can only really add 2 instances of draw capacity: after the first lawyer's activation (1 here -- any other activation before both lawyers is covered by Tools already, so you gain nothing), and it's own option for a surge trigger ... slightly reduced because the other lawyer needs the same card pool to enable surge in the first place. A second lawyer CAN set you up for Lawyer-Tools, Dashel summons, Lawyer-Tools to retrieve the summon card for round 2 (if the opponent isn't interacting with you in round one at all ... but that's only relevant if your summon card comes from Tools or Surge; if it comes anywhere else, Dashel can use it first, then the first lawyer can retrieve it. Two lawyers CAN unlock some additional draw by having the first obey the second (Following Orders will then draw a card), but that requires a 9M or a 9+mask-discard-on-tools. Not impossible, but a narrowish window for 1 more draw option. Stubborn Numbers: You REALLY want the high end of draw-power? New Nellie Crew: "You will DEFINITELY black-joker your summon flip!" Leader: Nellie Cochrane Totem: The Printing Press Cache: 3 stones Hires: Dashel Barker (15+1) Alan Reid (8+1) The Dispatcher (3+1) Guild Steward (6) Guild Lawyer (6+1) False Witness (5) Base hand: 6 Stone: 2 Arcane Reservoir: 1 Tools Opportunities: 6 (maximum) Internal Affairs Trigger: 2 Nefarious Pact (Alan): 1 Surge triggers (Alan Reid): 2 Lawyer Surge: 1 False Witness Following Orders (Lawyer obeys): 1 Slow News Day x3 (Nellie's trigger): 9 31 cards viewed. This list at its maximum represents a 98.9% chance of drawing your Executioner summon card on round one. (or ... in Malifaux terms ... a 100% chance you will flip the black joker when you actually try to summon! 😉) "Just" taking Dashel and the Dispatcher into Nellie with Lawyer, Steward, and friends? Hand (7) + stone (2) + Tools Initiative (1) + Slow News Day (9): 89.7% chance to see a summon card. (assumes Nellie passes 3/3 Slow News Day TN's; does not include Surge draw or Internal Affairs opportunity) Minions Inbound: Long story short? Dashel's going to summon his minions, especially once a player puts the reps in to watch for Lawyer/Dispatcher triggers or adds their own favorite draw mechanic. A Mounted Guard summon with just hand-6, stone-2, and tools-initiative is an 83.3% chance, which is generously likely in statistical terms. If you've been worried about bringing him because his friends might not accept their invitation to the party, I hope this helps! If you're playing against Dashel ... perhaps a Vincent St Clair?

One of the guests on the Reva episode (at the end when they talk Guild) said that he'd got in 22 games with Guild Basse with 20 wins and 2 draws.

So the inimitable Craig Shipman had guests on for the Reva episode back in January, and it just released. Among their hot takes later on was the notion that Dashel Barker is something of a generalist, but other Guild masters are, essentially, specialists ("niche masters") that work into specific pools. Their conclusion was that playing Guild well requires learning 3-4 masters well, where maybe in other factions you can, say, have a main and an alternate. How does that sound to people? What niches would you apply?

Yeah, it was more a matter of I liked the elevated walkway for the Leap and I didn't want a Brocken summoned onto Charles with assassinate in the pool. The terrain just didn't look right for watcher-bombing. If I had wanted to kill Ivan, Riotbreaker(s) would definitely have been an option.

Basse list was: Cornelius w/ LLC (assassinate was in the pool) Bernadette Pale Rider w/ LLC Lone Marshal Sand Worm Austringer Pathfinder I started in the SW corner; Bernadette and Austringer charged the NW and SE respectively, with gunline support from horses and pathfinder. Cornelius held down the center. Sand Worm buried round one and popped up round two to eat his totem and unflip his starter marker.

Round Three: Break the Line I had been planning Nellie into this but hit Explorers again and again hard-read Ivan, so I switched back to Lady J. I decided I needed more frontline and dropped my Domador, LLC, and a stone to pack the Brutal Emissary (whose crowd control can also stop Daeva placement attacks). Otherwise I kept Pale Rider, Jury, Lone Marshal, and Dr Grimwell (looking for Dr's Orders to enable him to break engagement and interact, or nimble to allow toss/walk/toss). He brought Ivan, Mordrake, Archivist, a Crypsis Corps with Hidden Agenda (damage for cheating), Grave Goo with Flush with Cash, a Nocturne, and Gibson. The map involved two high platforms with severe/dense/concealing crowds in the middle. I set the Lone Marshal on a high platform with my crew around it, Pale Rider and Grimwell towards the farthest marker, and the remainder of the crew staged behind the platform to walk around and towards the major set of strat markers. I took Death Beds on shadow markers assuming he'd have plenty, and Bait and Switch on Mordrake, assuming he'd be somewhere forward, and looking for a heave attack with the Brutal Emissary (I never did get the ram I needed for that). Round One the Crypsis started, focused for range and hit moderate to kill my totem, eating the damage back, so he wound up with activation control back. Lone Marshal put a few shots into Gibson, but otherwise I was mostly cagey. He used a crow with Gibson's tools to put burn out fast on the Grave Goo, and used it late in the round to launch forward and swallow Grimwell. I went last with Lady J and leapt forward to throw a symbol over, saving a 13M for a counterattack if he summoned; Ivan was able to summon a Brocken off her and used its non-attack actions to do further damage to Lady J. Round Two he won initiative with archivist help and kept hammering my master. Lady J failed to kill the Brocken for heal help and I saved my high cards hoping for a counterattack kill. Grimwell remained poisoned and stuck in the Grave Goo, and I had no high crows for the Lone Marshal. The Brutal Emissary helped me double commitment to my tossed-across strat marker, and he used Mordrake to scheme and set up Death Beds. He got a Daeva summoned off the Brutal Emissary and it helped lower the defenses of Lady J with base contact for a kill from the Brocken, dropping my overextended master turn two and declaring death beds. Lone Marshal tried to shoot down the Grave Goo with no luck and the Pale Rider ran forward to throw another strat marker across; he sent the Nocturne to tie it up and started working on its wound pool with the archivist and Crypsis Corps. I managed to score strat while denying his, but he was way up on attrition and the fight. Round Three to Five essentially continued that; Grave Goo was in terrain such that if Grimwell popped out he would immediately die to the hazardous effect, forcing me to fail the exit-duel and then pass activation with him. His team dropped the Pale Rider before it could clear the Nocturne, and it threw the marker back to deny my second strat. Lone Marshal had to run up and drop a scheme marker to set up my death beds, and I tried to top-deck an exorcism trigger into concealment and failed (missed the red joker I was fishing for by one card). He mused about self-killing the Daeva with some ability but we weren't sure if the rules allowed it, and we moved to round 3 with him scoring strat and either scoring or setting up for Spread them Out. I lost Grimwell to poison. Round Four I pulled off Death Beds with the Brutal Emissary clearing the Daeva and he scored another strat marker while setting up more scheming for Spread Them Out. I raced the Lone Marshal to the table edge to toss a marker over, but he was able to shade step Mordrake with some marker help from Ivan and throw it back. Round Five we were pinched for time, but he walked Grave Goo to my deployment zone and scored his spread them out markers again as well as the second point of death beds; I couldn't get a second marker across, but he missed the cost on Bait and Switch and I scored the endpoint. 7-3 loss. I think I had a better shot if I had kept my team together; trying to prevent him attaining any symbol was successful round one, but spread my crew too thin. Similarly, Lady J could have kept cagey round one, rather than looking for an early advantage tossing a marker over and trying to out-stat Ivan for summoning. I DID have rough hands, but I think I lost this one positionally in round one, when I had a few good cards (although he confessed afterwards that he drew into 3 severes, and then picked up a 12T with Gibson's Tools in round one). Lone Marshal, Jury, and Brutal Emissary all look good as anti-Ivan tech to me, and I still think Grimwell has play, but this game swung hard away from me.

Round Two: Turf War This pairing was a bit odd, but I played the ringer, who was just running a set Wong crew that he'd borrowed for the whole day. We played on a brewery with a fair amount of dense/concealing/severe terrain (crowds of patrons), and it was corner deployment. I ran Basse into this with Let Them Bleed and Assassinate, and really just slaughtered things on approach, since not even the pigapault could get models positioned properly. A few models tried to take advantage of concealment to tax my AP, and Basse set the terrain to hazardous and pulled Alphonse out. In round two guns and Bernadette were able to clear a taxidermist that had claimed a flank turf marker, and the Sand Worm was able to pop up and kill his significant totem near a severe-crowd of people to flip his starting turf marker back. This one was really just a straight up slaughter, although Alphonse red joker'd damage into Basse and nearly killed him. A LLC and a 1-point stone kept him above hard to kill, though, and with a Rider ready to hit Devastation and heal, I wound up in the clear. We called it in round 3 at 8-0.

Just a quick re-cap of running Guild in GG2 at the Des Moines tournament. We had about 6 of the top 25 players from the MWS there (so a lot of the non-Texas Americans), so a good strong field. Packet is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LqINYIAWf72RWv7qi1nL0MBIAxWNcUrcKDmfP6xOcI0/edit?fbclid=IwAR2JF8wl9W_3c0_cVfyshm2Dqh01U-zhP7haxtEhy4Eb4slQHcDhM0HYBPM Round One: I had prepped Hoffman for this pool (deny assassinate, threaten all schemes, throw a watcher or two back for the symbols), but hit an ES opponent and read Ivan, so I declared Lady J and took Research Mission and Breakthrough, figuring I could flank with my master and then deep-dive her for symbols and breakthrough. There was also an elevated walkway and I had attacker, so I started J up there, looking for some security and leap range. I brought Lone Marshal to pop summons, Pale Rider and Domador for the fight, the Jury as AP spread and incidental summon damage, and Dr Grimwell for out of activation movement and a second fast figure who could threaten the symbols (I'm trying to get this figure to work, and having issues there). Cache 6 or so, after a LLC on Lady J. Played against Roman running Ivan, Mordrake, Eva (secret passage), Rook, a Nocturne, an Operative, Gibson, and Vernon and Welles -- I think there may have been an upgrade on somebody. Round one I dropped the Operative on the approach with the Lone Marshal and was able to prevent summoning by outflipping his single attack onto one of my horses, as I recall. I believe he killed my totem, which had double-walked forward to blow up some destructible terrain. Lady J went right to deal with Rook and Eva on the walkway, while everyone else in both crews went to my left. I wanted to keep my ranged advantage through round 2, so I kept fairly far back, using the Jury and Domador to get obeys out of the Riders. Grimwell used Dr's Orders to move J forward, but held back -- not sure how best to use him, but I decided I wanted to preserve the "explode forward" threat and rely on Lady J to get my first symbol. Lady J activated last and got a swing or two onto Corvis, but nothing major. I drew an 11C and 10C, which I saved for the Lone Marshal. Round two I dropped the Nocturne before it was relevant and put some damage into Vernon and Welles, getting it more cautious. Ivan and Mordrake came forward and we began a summon dance with the Lone Marshal where Ivan would get a summon off with some min damage into Hard to Wound, and the Lone Marshal would then activate and kill the summon with an exorcism trigger on startle to heal back 2. Lady J leapt away from Rook to get my first symbol; Eva teleported forward to get his. Round three the Pale Rider attempted to tie up Ivan, Gibson, and Mordrake with an initiative advantage to stop my left-side symbols, while the domador, Jury, and Grimwell meat-shielded the third that was near Eva. Mordrake simply shadow-stepped to his own aura to get away from the Rider and picked one up; I responded with Lady J leap/walking to another symbol, dropped a scheme marker for Breakthrough and then forgot that you need a model in the deployment zone and walked Lady J back out to get back towards the fight.Some minor fighting between the models in the middle, and the Lone Marshal either tanked away his summoning options or he got off another Brocken Spectre and I immediately exorcised it -- I popped two through the game in rounds 2-4. I noted that he was showing Research Mission but didn't declare it, and decided he must have Death Beds instead, as he'd been dropping scheme markers on AP in pacing activations. We both scored strat; I scored research mission on his shadow marker, scheme, and the corpse of the operative and tried to reveal breakthrough only to be reminded of the full terms. Eva scored breakthrough reveal for him. Round four, with schemes basically known, turned attention to the fight in the middle. He tried to tie up the Lone Marshal and did some damage to it, but ultimately he summoned a brocken and I popped it. He DID manage to make me use LM AP in a way that prevented me getting to his deployment zone, and chased Lady J with Corvis Rook to be within the distance to prevent reveal. Eva got to a strat marker and I finally abandoned my own backfield with Grimwell, triple-walking him forward to make a fourth model across the line for Research Mission endgame. Ivan, Mordrake, and Gibson started charging my deployment zone to set down more markers. The Pale Rider got good pulse damage off. We were tight on time and both had some misplays. We barely turned the corner into round five and got a few activations each, scoring our full symbols. I never was able to break away Lady J from Corvis, and ultimately had to choose between the endpoint of research mission and the reveal of breakthrough. He easily had the endpoint of death beds. The game wound up decided on time, as I had the Jury as the last-activation and focus-obey'd Gibson to pick up the scheme marker he'd dropped for breakthrough, setting him back to four strat, one breakthrough, and endpoint of death beds. If he had an activation, Ivan could have leap-walk-schemed to restore that point; if he had killed my lone marshal with his last AP, he might have denied RM's endpoint, while if I had remembered the breakthrough reveal properly (I play Guild, guys; I don't score breakthrough!) I would have had a 7-6 win, or possibly a 6-6 draw still. Good game; great opponent; we both really enjoyed it and felt like there was good play and counterplay. Postgame: it's scary how effective Ivan is, that even having exactly the cards I needed to stop his summoning cold, we played to a high-scoring draw.

Looks great, @Alcathous! I'm twisting arms from our "greater Des Moines" meta to get a trio up, even if we're not the highest-ranked US players.

Yeah, that's a confusing component in it, and the model "is not targeted" at that step, but IS "the target" of the attack, as indicated by effects such as Protected or Take the Hit, which explicitly note that it has become the new target. We can also consider any other trigger that refers to the target -- eg., the Doppelganger's "No Witnesses" trigger reads "This trigger may only be declared if no other enemy model (other than the target) is within 12" and LoS of this model. When resolving, the target suffers +1 damage and damage from this attack ignores Armor." Presumably, nobody is making the case that No Witnesses, when it is declared in step d5, goes back to check step c and see who the doppelganger attempted to target initially to do +1 armor piercing damage to them.

There is only one target of the attack at the time the trigger is declared (the final target after step c is fully resolved in the detailed timing). The trigger is declared at step d-v, at which point the target of the attack is the one on whom the trigger is being declared.

I did a pretty extensive review of these abilities recently for the MWS rule FAQ, and I'd land really heavily on this side of it as well. Protected changes the target of the attack. Take the hit has the model "become the new target," which could hypothetically create a linguistic separation from Protected and suggest that there is both a "previous target" and a "new target," but there is nothing else in the rules to suggest that a "previous target" retains its status as a target whatsoever -- you don't continue through the duel whatsoever with the attacker's attempted target. I absolutely think you can quick-reflexes back onto the original target.

My mistake -- I was thinking of @Filox!

Or you could play a Guild mirror like ours ... in which, as I recall, you played Perdita?

Sounds like a lesson in ... HowNot2Wargame! But yes, Dashel is fine into CLL still.