Kaeris_Main

That's fair! I usually find myself losing Mouse around T3 since he's a really easy target (especially in Turf), but if he's kept alive I can see him being useful in keeping adrenaline up. Probably easier to keep him alive in new Ironsides if she's hanging back anyway. Like it wouldn't need to be GOOD, like... Ignite, or drop a scrap marker, or pick up a scrap to draw a card, or something unique. I just think it'd be cool to be able to push 2' afterwards. I do find she can be a little squishy so it might help. Plus it just seems like a bit of a waste! She's got these cool trigger abilities and no way to trigger them on defense. I agree she doesn't need it but it'd be fun!

I'll nod to gunsmiths- I used to play them in 2E with Kaeris and LOVE them, but I always thought 8SS was steep in 3E. I do take one when I play Ironsides but I don't love to have them in melee and prefer using them at range shooting into who Toni's locking down with their free pos negating the friendly fire. I'd hardly take one and run it in for the Loyal Minion trigger if I had a choice. She can summon 3 with a bonus action, which is great, but I have some fairly big concerns over her adrenaline generation once you reach turns 4 and 5, along with minimal card draw (mostly just her and Amina) and it'll cost half your hand to do that. I feel like using False Claim will generally be a better way of doing that- no cost to Adrenaline. She's limited in OOK and Versatile she can bring too (even if I prefer playing in keyword it's worth pointing out). That said her bonus action IS awesome for the pseudo obey, best thing on the card for me. I don't know. I still don't like it much but I quoted this part because you made me realise why I don't. I don't like playing swarm and spam crews. It makes Ironsides more flexible into crews that ignore def triggers/10T, but I'm still not sold. I do now understand why people like it though RE total switch up of playstyle.

there goes me not double checking before I posted, I was going off memory. Probably bumps him up above Ironsides for me then! Thanks

My two cents... 1. Raspy 2. Mei Feng 3. Marcus 4. Kaeris 5. Sandeep 6. Hoffman 7. Ironsides 8. Colette New Raspy is excellent, thank god for playable December... it makes her bad minions slightly less bad since you don't need to hire them and can summon as per gamestate, and frees up some soulstones for better hiring decisions. Also Ice Dancers are better working with Kaldergeists. Not sure I'd hire them still, though, but they can net you a free non flip pillar. And finally! Grim Feast will be usable! Let's be clear she still needs some form of corpse creation outside the Rider... but this is a start. Nothing but good things to say about her new title, I love it, very excited. Love the new Mei Feng. Love it! If it wasn't for my sheer joy of being able to feel competitive with December, she'd be my number 1 for sure. The Foundry crew are fragile, and deal tons of damage. Putting a master able to support them behind that is fantastic. I think both versions will be fun, and both versions have their pros and cons. Definitely the one in Arcanist that I think got the best result from their title. (Side note: give old Mei Feng a defensive trigger she can Press the Advantage/Constant Motion with... it would be fun!) I'm of the opinion Alpha Marcus is much better than old Marcus- my partner plays him and thinks both him and the new Eagles are fantastic. He joked he'd take two every game with their ability to access positive flips for both attack and damage relatively easily. The ability to bounce upgrades makes Chimera a buddy squad type of field, and makes Myranda a lot more useful as Myranda as opposed to 'Cerberus Sabertooth in waiting'. Plus Chimera Strike is awesome (min 4!), and he will be an excellent tank with the permanent cover vs guns and the difficulty of things to charge him/around him. He'll bring a threatening DPS melee master to Arcanists which I'm really excited for. I'll never say a bad word about my main Kaeris, but I think I prefer the original one as much as I'm loving having MV 7 back from 2E. That said, choosing a suit freely was awesome when I played a game with it (as an aside Euri's Heptomancy feels so bad. It feels so bad to play against. Wow). I think both have plays and I'm interested in trying it out more. It does feel like it makes the Golem a must hire since it's the only Flameborn that can keep up with her though through Draw Off Flame. Everyone's talking about Scorching Radiance being busted but any kind of pushes, pulls, lures or moves can just shut that down to the point I'd be concerned bringing that into a crew with any sort of it as it forces a late activation. Maybe bringing in Firestarter for Light Under Their Feet might circumvent that a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's counterplay, but it feels like a very swingy ability. I feel like enough has been said on it- I like her back of card a lot! Melting Point is awesome and I like Eruption- both felt really good to play. Anyway, like I said, I think I prefer original but I've only played one game of new Kaeris so will need more to be able to fully comment. I don't play Sandeep yet, but honestly think 5's a bit rough. I think 3-5 are all close in rank and I don't think he's bad at all. On the contrary new Sandeep looks great, and I really like his Demise and the play with Academics now. I think both titles have their positives and different pools you'd like them in. Not sold on Hoff. The pylons feel fiddly and difficult to put down for the effort, given they're destructible and with the upswing of marker removal (seriously, there's so much more now- discussion for another time, but I'm worried about crews that HAVE to play around markers instead of it being optional). But it's still Hoff. Probably still good. *EDIT: pointed out they're not destructible, was going off memory and mixed it up with the Decoys. His was the only card I didn't reread before posting but I should've, cause when I reread it I liked it a lot more. I'm worried, given they're not removable, could make it sort of a NPE for crews who don't bring marker removal. It's a fine line to walk. Looking forward to seeing it on the table! I think I'll enjoy playing it more than playing against it. I honestly don't like new Ironsides much at all. She's supporting and charging up her crew, sure, but who in the M&SU keyword is worth charging up aside from Howard? Sure, maybe Captain, but the entire keyword & it's best models are about supporting Ironsides. I can see some play with Swarms and loyal follower, sure, but... I'm kind of underwhelmed. When she starts losing models her adrenaline generation will get weaker AND is needing in keyword stuff (not just friendlies). I don't mind summoning drudges but I would've liked them to have a benefit from them dying (like draw a card ala rats) since I don't think they'll stick around that long if there's any shockwaves or blasts. I think old Ironsides is just plain better. Everyone else seems really keen on her- so what am I missing? She's a support master with very few worthwhile models to beef up. If it was a very schemey pool I'd just take another master, frankly. I haven't put her on the table and I'd love to be wrong. Don't like new Colette, I think it's not only worse power wise and easier to kill but also, and most importantly, less fun than original. Couldn't see myself taking it. No other comment really needed here.

I'd like to try it OOK in a Raspy crew, since her and Silent Ones tend to sit pretty far back and don't move too much. A 7 stat Raspy would be excellent for applying long range slows and spamming pillars. Plus a 5 needed for a heal instead of a 6 is never a bad thing! Stats are bad for 5 SS though.

Thanks everyone! Totally forgot about the Wrastlers- nobody in my meta has them so I don't need to worry about them yet 🤣 Sounds horrible for Kaeris though. Didn't know about Gluttony's ability since nobody has the Crossroads Seven so I've only played against Envy. So, I'm golden in the Kaeris v Bayou meta....... for now. I imagine that's gonna change in the next few months. I'll have to brush up on my Ironsides skills!

As to your question... 1. Experience. Meh answer but it's what I got. I agree from up there that writing down what schemes and strats you think a crew would be good into based on their abilities would be a solid way to figure that out and help you solidify a list. Once you know a crew really well you know what you can do, and you know what you can do if things are going badly... Retnab's right in that tech pieces can be really great, especially the anti-scheming picks. I brought Miss Fire into a Wildfire list because I was playing against Euripedes although I would never normally do that. This, of course, favours people with bigger collections and who have gone deeper into factions and thus have the models available. If you really like flexibility maybe try Sandeep- he can pivot really quickly into new plans. Plus the Sandeep I just played, on Turn One, deployed the Ice Golem like, two inches from my deployment zone (didn't really have the hand/models to punish since he waited for my bigger models to activate first). Sandeep's REALLY quick with Basanuva and Kandara. 2. Nope! Remember- killing is fun but it's not how you win (outside Reckoning/Assassinate/Vendetta/etc). I'm actually pretty bad at Reckoning because I can't switch the kill instinct on. In my Wildfire crews I usually only take one dedicated beater + Kaeris for damage & then hold the enemy while my schemers score. Ironsides is a good way to try and flick that kill switch though. 3. Ah! Sometimes a game is an uphill battle just through masters alone... but there's always a way to win even if it means playing a master in an unconventional way. I took Ironsides into Shenlong, and he took Masked Agent. Awful, right? A frustrating counter. I still won. Like, 6-5, but still. 2 strat (Turf), max scheme (Outflank + Detonate Charges). He got 3 strat, 2 scheme. He showed outflank and hold up their forces end of turn 2 (unwise unbury placement of my SS miners...) so I hard committed my bubble to one corner, thus denying him his second outflank and hold up unless he came to me, used my emissary to kill the schemer on the other flank (who then died, 10pt model for a 6pt model), ceded 2/3's of the board, and proceeded to avoid fighting him since I didn't have to, using cover/concealment. He extended away from his gunline turn 4 which gave me detonate charges through the union miner (plan was to use Bring It to bring over someone late in the turn but he just walked on over, so ace). He killed Langston during his activation in T5 so Ironsides killed the totems. Waste of a master's AP, right? Nope. Killing Langston did nothing for him, points wise. However, those totems would've pushed him away from my scheme markers the union miner dropped. It was what I needed to do to get the point. No AP or kill is more valuable than points. If a crew counters you, you do not need to fight. If you have a bad hand, you do not need to fight. Sometimes the opponent might force you to, of course. But you do not need to. If your master does one thing really well, that doesn't mean you have to do it. Colette feels awesome at evading, but as my Ironsides v Shenlong game indicated, Ironsides can evade and find a way to win, even if she isn't playing to her strengths. As an aside........ I take Kaeris into everything, as my username may suggest. I love her in Turf and Plant. Carlos is super fast, Firestarter gets a unfairly bad rep but I love the model, and between the two of them + Kaeris there's not much they can't scheme. Turf War and Flank deployment is the Kaeris dream. I only play Kaeris - Ironsides - Raspy at the moment so I do struggle finding a crew for Idols since it's not their ideal strategy. I'm not great at Reckoning either, mostly because I don't tend to get killy, but Ironsides would be my competitive pick. Stick her, Fitz, and Langston together and unless your opponent has blasts you'll be fine (and if you know in advance bring the Captain). Probably going to pick up Sandeep next just because I want to paint his crew, although I'm a bit iffy taking a summoner into a Idols. I really want to pick up Mei Feng since walking 12 inches with one AP is amazing fun and hilariously frustrating if they've unwisely picked Take Prisoner or something. But also Colette...... too many options. And hey, hey, Raspy's great in Turf. Definitely her best strat. She's slow, but take Dec Acolytes & Soulstone Miners for some speed (Hoarcats good too... Ice Dancers good on card but haven't played well on the table for me). Stick the Ice Golem front and centre, back it up with a Silent One, and Blizzard to your heart's content. Raspy sits so far back on the board she's a nightmare for crews to actually get to (especially melee crews) and thus she doesn't really care about being pressured (great anti-assassination pick with her ice pillar backup). She's all about board control and forcing simple duels to drain hands. Doesn't sound like she's your thing if you like quick crews, though- she's not super adaptable either. Wouldn't like her into Idols. Once you commit, you commit. Still, she's definitely not the strongest master we have. Fun though. That got long. Hope that helped. 😐

I'm not sure if I'm missing something? Pyre markers aren't destructible, and as of such blow it to hell, demolitionist, etc, don't work. The only thing in Bayou- although, I did only skim since I don't really know the M3E faction- that could be ARGUED to work is the Lucky Emissary since it's a marker removal and not a terrain removal. And that's a 10pt model. I'm fine if the tech piece they have to take to remove pyre markers is 10 points even if I wouldn't be thrilled about an 8inch WK model with a 12 push on the opposite side lol.

I know! I've played Plant with Raspy before. nasty surprise the first time, I tell you it's a downside but Snowstorm can hold two, or you don't need to deploy them forward. You can just chuck them into normal deployment phase. I was thinking earlier shifting out the Acolyte anyway- big vendetta target. Maybe Snowstorm, Silent One, Soulstone Miner and then SOMETHING for more damage. 9 points left. Swarm? Everyone likes a good Swarm. Except the opponent. What Snowstorm list did you run and how'd it go?

Kudra was amazing. Having my leader as the primary damage was a bit of a risk but it definitely paid off. I haven't played Sandeep! I own him, but yet to put him on the table because bubble crews aren't my favourite so I'm a bit iffy to do so. I really miss playing a summoner though (Ramos was my second master). I suppose she'd just compete with too many good beaters in a Sandeep crew between all those amazing golems. They were fine? Sure, it would've been NICE to have more models benefiting off it, but also that would've forced me to position differently. I didn't particularly feel it's loss, although, point for point, of course there would be a lack of effectiveness without them. I didn't mind it, though. Maybe it's because I haven't played Sandeep. Yeah, I had a few issues. SS Miner always dropped it's bomb on the first turn so it hemmed in where other bombs could go depending on how I deployed. I think wind gamin instead of oxy mage would ultimately be more valuable due to their leap and 6 inch move- mage did the least out of everyone BUT it was also the only source for ranged attacks, so... that's a pretty big vulnerability. Kudra got like nine inches in one activation from jump though haha, so she swept all the way up the flank and was home free to scheme. Butterfly Jump is SO good. I'd love to try running a December list. I think Snowstorm is an awesome model vs ranged crews, really packs a punch and is pretty survivable. Snowstorm (9) December Acolyte (7) Silent One (6) Not sure after that. 8 points left. Maybe a hoarcat for scheming & 3 cache? Really keen to give a December list a shot.

DECEMBER KEYWORD I think the December crew needs work. The Raspy thread right now (which I totally made and abandoned cause life interfered) is talking about a core and then just filling with versatile, or just taking her as a second master. Like to me that signals a major problem with how a crew works together! The individual models are probably fine (ice dancers, hoarcats, etc) but they're clearly lacking something that makes people want to pick them. You generally don't have a problem fielding a mostly Wildfire, Academic/Elemental, MS&U or Performer crew- why is December the one people don't want to take? One of my main concerns in playing Raspy is the lack of card draw. I think her crew desperately needs it especially since Raspy's throwing cards away every activation. Using 4 cards out of a 6/7 hand on my master's abilities without any ability to refresh the hand outside an 11 point model... it doesn't feel great. I think the number of Grim Feast's should be reduced (maybe off the Dec Acolytes or ice dancers?) to make way for a more useful bonus action that's about card draw. Grim Feast is fine but it's not particularly helpful across so many of the crew, especially because Silent Ones exist. Often I'm just not using my bonus actions which gives a natural advantage to the opponent. I wish hoarcats had a better back of card too but they're so defensively great already that I'm not sure what I'd include. Maybe a trigger to push out of engagement for more movement shenanigans to get out of combat? +1 damage if the opponent is slow? Snowstorm's bonus push should be allowed to be on all December models. You can use it on FOUR models in the whole game and three of them are ice gamin!! Come on 😧 that's awful. Especially since Raspy's so slow. I don't see why it can't work on all models with the December keyword. ---- FIREBRANDED I agree the Firebranded need a little something. Their heal is super lackluster and consumes resources to do it, and the pulse to remove burning is terrible, I hate that I was theorising it earlier with a mate and I was thinking a delayed heal could be fun! Make it so instead of taking damage from the burning condition at the end of turn, flip it so the model heals the amount of damage they would've taken. Cap at 4 instead of 3 because it's a delayed heal? & then maybe reduce burning by the amount you heal (4 health = 4 burning reduction) so you can't constantly stack it and turn Kaeris into an unkillable tank. It's at the end of turn so losing burning isn't as impactful, doesn't pull it away from other models, and the opponent could still play around it. It'd still be situational, of course- wouldn't work on the Golem/Gamin but i think it'd be a fun and powerful ability that is limited by being at the end of the turn so the opponent can counter it! Plus it's potential to counter Assassinate would be brilliant Otherwise, a simpler solution is make it a 1/2/3 flip, and make reducing 3 burning on models around you a CHOICE, and you heal +1 for each model whose burning is reduced in this way to a maximum of 2. Would be a very clutch heal for the wildfire crew. As a wildfire player- Iggy is %^&*(@# obnoxious. Oh my god. Misery vs a melee crew is the worst thing to play against. You're being yoyo'd across the board constantly. ---- OTHER I think stealth on Saboteurs would be fine? they're squishy and generally get one shot anyway, might as well make them walk close to do it I don't take them just because they die way too often to actually get to USE them. I mean, hoarcat has stealth AND manipulative. I think Fitz is great but also fine. There are way better models than him. Mediocre stats and forced to be near the frontlines to get the most out of him with no triggers? he's fine. No comment on the Swarm because I haven't tabled it yet, I like playing keyword over versatile. SS Miners... now there's a thorny debate. I also think the Eternal Flame needs some help. Poor little dude. +1 health or demise eternal (its in the NAME!!!) would be enough. I think his actions are fine. I don't own Marcus so I can't comment but the Chimera keyword is something I have my eye on as a potential concern. I think some models are poorly costed.

I've only played two hench hardcore crews, and the Wildfire crew I don't recommend because they schemed amazingly but folded like wet paper in combat. Bringing Carlos with performer backup like Ludvig did sounds more viable (I didn't own any at the time). The effigy > emissary combo was banned for the tournament or else I would've included it. However, I played a Kudra led list and it was very awesome. I only lost one game and it was when I didn't have a legal vendetta target and Ototo was the leader (that wasn't bloody happening 😂). It was quite balanced between scheming and killing, and let me flex depending on what the situation was. - Kudra, leader (2 bombs) - Shasta Vidiya Guard (1 bomb) - Soulstone miner (1 bomb) - Oxfordian Mage (1 bomb) Kudra was brilliant with 6 stats, onslaught and butterfly jump, super scary melee threat but also a solid schemer. Had to decide not to oneshot a master kind of situation. Miner was the vendetta model- popped up next to them and dealt damage, then re-buried and Kudra finished them off next turn for second point. Also helped offset low SS cache. Shasta was everyone's vendetta target save one game where it was the mage, but he provided a seriously needed second damage threat and his pushes were great. Oxy mage was the weakest point of the crew but it did come in handy- I'd probably try swapping it for a wind gamin next time though. It'd be weaker vs ranged crews (fortunate to only play melee henchmen & Samuel Hopkins who decided to go melee instead of ranged- for those wondering I DID warn him twice about her onslaught) and also a little weaker vs opponents with better melee damage tracks. But it was a super good all-round crew and also a blast to play! However, the cheapest SS of 6 means the chance for a non-legal vendetta target IS there.

Hi! I'm mostly a Kaeris player (maybe obvious), and Ramos before he was DMH. I picked up M2E Raspy since I liked that box better than the new one. I struggled in my first game with her (3 to 5, 35 SS- Raspy, Wendigo, Ice Golem, 1 Dec Acolyte, 1 Silent One, 2 Ice Gamin) vs Basse. With his huge deployment forward in corner deployment, I really felt hemmed in. Aside from Dec and Wendy, I basically didn't leave my corner lol. The scheme pool was almost entirely non-killy and strat was Plant. I think I'm struggling because I'm used to fast and/or flexible, and I like tricking my opponent. Raspy doesn't seem to offer much of that. I'm hoping I can adjust rather than give up and go to Colette or Mei Feng since I loved casting through the ice pillars and I ADORE the models. I'll be picking up Snowstorm soon because I like the M2E model, and later Ice Dancers for the scheming since I felt so terrible at doing it So- advice? I'm looking for help with how to position (kept accidentally blocking Golem's path with pillars through narrow corridors, sorry my guy), best ways to apply slow to get the most out of the Golem's potential min 5, and getting the most out of her crew. I also found Raspy herself kind of lackluster but hoping that was just my inexperience with how to play her.