muraki

You could use it to target yourself, as you're always within 3 inches of your self.  But looking at his actions:

• Twist / Obey - both are attack actions and you cannot target yourself with an attack action (as its still yan lo taking the attack).
• Final WIshes - does not target anyone so can't be taken
• Choose a path - free action so can't be taken.

So while technically you could target yourself, he doesn't currently have any actions that would allow for him to target himself due to other restrictions.

My read is feed on fear is 'after failing a WP duel' but vengeance is 'after resolving an action' so you would heal first and then take damage as failing a WP duel happens when the conflict is resolved, before damage / triggers / etc hit.

Timing is a bit strange as if feed on fear was more of a 'resolving an action' it wouldnt necessarily proc on stuff like terrifying / wp shockwaves / etc (I'm sure the devs could of worked around it, but could be a reason why the heal kind of hits mid action.

Harrison and the Watchmen are brand new last book, so they have blurbs in Madness of Malifaux, but I don't think they show up in the lore for that book (haven't finished reading it yet).

There was a post in the discord that basically said that historically the app is updated a month or so after physical release. So I'd expect to see cards early Jan at the latest.

58 minutes ago, Aka Aelius said:

I also submitted my pre-order receipt to get the free PDF, and if I don't get that PDF until I have the physical book in hand then that was a whole wasted pre-order promotion.

Yeah, they've done these offers for the last few books. It's less 'heres a pdf while you wait' and more 'if you want a version to carry around on your phone you don't have to double buy it'.  I actually really think it's cool that wyrd does this promo as I do enjoy having a book to look things up on my phone / computer.  It's less needed with the app but is still very helpful if I want to quickly reference something, so I would of double bought the book without the promo.

1 hour ago, archangel said:

12 hours ago, 11Anthonyc said:

People seem to love the Basse Trap list. I'm not sure how it goes exactly, but it does involve hiring a bunch of traps and Pathfinder or two. 

I am wondering if I should take traps with me or summon them with the pathfinder during the game. That will take some tweaking. 

I tend to see 1-2 traps in games I've played into, they're a great 'odd number of stones' addition to a crew and that summon can sometimes be hard to get off.

15 minutes ago, archangel said:

Hey everyone, 

I haven't played this game in maybe a decade or so, but I am interested in starting up at my LGS with Basse. Another player there has generously given me the title version of him too. SO I am here asking for help on basically what to get next. So what does an average Basse list look like? 

Not the biggest basse player myself, but thinking of his models I'd prolly say you can't go wrong with:

• Sandworm
• Rough Riders
• Pathfinders and traps

Still prolly good but I'm not quite as knowledgable

• Austringers (I know some people swear by em)
• Pearle (i know people really like her in parker, so assume shes solid in basse too, just havent seen as many reactions there).

Which luckily sandworm / pathfinders are in solo boxes so thats an easy grab.  Rough riders are a bit harder as they're in with McCabe models (the cryptologists) so that feels a bit more expensive for what you get.

Versatiles is a bit different, and I'd see what you like / need before really digging in there deep.  I think vernon and welles / the emissary boxes / botanists / the starter box are all great for when you need what they bring, but a lot depends on what you're looking for.

The 2nd, when wyrd wants to identify multiple suits they tend to put the suit symbol multiple times or do a 'for each' kind of language.

Ex: Ivan's summon needing 2 crows, or yan lo's lingering voice giving +mask +crow.

Stories can't use the configuration, her stories of the red library just allows her the chance to get 3 tomes into the config in thunders as there's no way to get 3 witness activations in thunders (with what we've seen at least).  Its kind of a bespoke repository action that helps her when shes out of arcanists.

Dabblers don't have something similar when they're in Bayou, but since they can theoretically put 2 cards a round into the config (a failure + repository) and are rare 3 they don't quite need an ability like this as much there.

I have creative cloud for adobe so there's an easy way to just select all + merge the files.  Not sure if they let you do it easily without the paid for adobe, so your best bet would prolly be freeware pdf software, which is always a bit of a crap shoot but there should be something that lets you drag + drop a lot of files together for printing.

2 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

I have been put off doing intro games or demos for folks because I don't want to have to mess up explaining the timing charts, or why this or that doesn't work the way it 'should'.

This feels a mite self defeating.  When I get a demo for anything, I don't expect the person teaching me to be a grizzled veteran of the game system.  I'm mostly just looking for excitement / enjoyment of the game.  I've definitely done demos (looking at you ToS) where I had to preface it with 'Ok, while I love this game, it's been a bit since I've played consistently, so I may have to hit the book for clarification/we may get some rules a bit wrong'.

If you choose the crews so they don't hit a lot of odd edge case rules + focus on the strengths of the system (strats / schemes / cards / etc) the people you demo with should get a good idea of whether they'd be interested or not.

Are there things that are a bit tough for new players to understand? Course.  Luckily theres groups (here / the official discord / local discords / etc) where players are more than happy to explain things / help new players out... which I consider a good selling point.  As having a question with a new system is expected, getting a response to your question in minutes is a major plus on the side of the community here.

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I think the game was on sale during gencon (i didn't actually check, but it was available according to the newsletters), so its possible the ship landed and they sold the contents. 

IDK bout general releases around that time, but gencon in person had copies (wanna say 100+) and sold out early Sat of the Con.  It definitely feels like its going out as fast as its coming in.

16 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, I think rather than saying all of Wyrds balance cycle should be dedicated to players like me, some experimentation in formats makes sense.

For me personally, my last four tournaments have been dominated by either Nexkids or Damian.

And while I REALLY enjoyed my tinkering to beat Nexus (and Damian), it gets tedious to just pick other overpowered titles to play against them.

The most fun tournament games I've had recently were mostly with original titles and masters like Molly 2 (and Lucius 2, but he's secretly super strong).

It'd be really nice to have some formats where original titles can keep up with the top stuff of the format.

Yep, hence a 'classic' format (could do something like 'currently everything up to explorers book + all erratas) would be relatively simple for people to understand by just having it be by book.  But if you want to do it, go forth and do it (prolly just odd tone over text but feels more 'heres a proposal what do you think' rather than 'fyi im going to run with this and see how it is!' ha.... tho i guess the official announcement gives you a date to start reps from if you want to really sell the concept for a official GG add).

I do think my biggest issue with this format (provided it doesnt sweep the nation) is that I'm sure there'll be new boogiemen to dominate the meta... which may not as bad as damian / nexkids (as if they were really egregious wyrd would of tapped em down).  Unless the format is 'different enough' that people don't try and powergame it with the strongest in their faction (which I know I see more when the format changes radically, there's a lot more 'let me try out X for a bit and see how he does!' than 'oh wait, i remember x was a monster, back to him i guess!')

FYI tho, I'd wordsmith the name a bit, as I don't like the way 'balanced' reads, as it makes me think it should be the dominant format, or that the core is a 'in testing/ in dev' ruleset.  Something like 'Classic' or 'Errata Eligible' or 'Book (X)' would help make it feel like something I could see in the official packet without confusing people.

51 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

What they mind is playing 100-200 games where those masters are part of the meta without receiving some adjustments.

45 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Overall I imagine the errata cycle works fine for most of the player base, though.

There'll be many players who buy a new crew and only play it 10-30 times before it gets errata-ed, which can also feel quite fast.

There's variety in the player base, so there should be variety in the competitive space to match different needs.

Yep.  I know I play a order of magnitude more than people in my meta, and theres people who outstrip me by 2x at least, so there's definitely a lot there.  Which is why I'm surprised 'fan variants / variants in general' haven't become more prevalent in this game.  As I know once I hit that 'when is gg3 coming out stage' earlier this year I was chomping at anything that would make things feel different, hence dipping into GG All pretty heavily once it came out (and just other GGs before that).

Similarly its why even now we're (locally) trying different variant rules for events, had a bans event when GG3 dropped, and are finishing a 'All in key with max 1 versatile' league and have a upcoming tourney at the end of Oct with the same rule set.  It requires being able to handle a bit of 'i think you should do this instead' pressure from TO's from other metas, but people will always have a gripe or 2, so no biggie.

And (lets be honest) 'classic' servers from MMO's have been around for ages, the concept of 'classic' malifaux as a format isn't far fetched (unless it means m2e or m1e, in that case, go to heck).  I do think timing for some things could be a bit of a headache as wyrd doesnt really release things in a set fashion, so remembering when erratas / new books dropped / what was 'valid' for each of those would be a bit hard, as would things that break the mold (like is mcmourning2 legal as he jumped the queue and was errated without the usual year+ wait?) same thing are erratas also subject to a cool down? (like is raspy1/wong1 playable in that format?)

Obviously thats stuff you can work out when you build your rules doc tho.

I think it could be interesting to try as a format for an event or more, as I feel like variating the tournament rules is a good way to keep things from feeling stale / seeing different things on the table.

That said, if the goal is to switch a major tourney circuit / meta to this format instead of the base format it could be bad for the game.  If people are told 'yeah you can buy (x shiny new thing), but none of the tournaments around here will let you play it for a year+' why would I bother buying new product?  Same if large tournaments ban whole swaths of models, then IDK how Wyrd will get the info about stuff that needs to be touched for good / ill (as the current errata cycle seems to be built around giving enough time for kneejerk responses to calm a bit). 

Additionally, not using the new stuff for a period would effectively take you out of the review equation. (like you said above 'I'm not quite sure I'd ban damian right now, as I want more time to build strategies against him').  I know it's not the same (as banning dual masters doesnt stop the keywords from getting reps) but it kind of reminds me of people who are anti-dual masters being able to point out new combos that aren't fun, and I wonder 'is this a testing/wyrd issue, or a '1/2 the community doesnt use em, so changing the combos may be low priority / low visibility thing for the devs'.

That said, if something like this would happen, I think it should be universal rather than certain models/keys being banned v others.  As I've listened in to chatter about Damian and when I asked how playing into him was different than other masters that feel over-curved (nexus2 for instance) the response I heard was 'oh but people like the challenge of trying to break that / find solutions for it' which feels kind of strange to me.  So if the controlling group says that witness is banned but not returned (for instance, haven't looked into em closely, just saw some chatter that said they look 'fine'), that gives a faction 1 less keyword to play than others, which doesnt seem right.

That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that playing in a meta where people 'abuse' the OP stuff every release isn't fun.  And it isn't fun to constantly play into the same 2-3 masters each time you go to a tournament / event.  So something that could help with that would be nice (whether the event gives people breathers with format changes now / then or if Wyrd releases some emergency changes to certain models). 

I think the real flow would go something like

1) before declaring bring it, the gunfighter model determes if it has an engagement range

2) bring it is declared

3) bring it succeeds, model is pulled towards and does / doesn't do a melee' based on what was declared in step 1

Theres no rule to recheck / redetermine engagement mid action step, as if there was it would mess up stuff like determining engagement for guns / interacts / etc where a gunfighter model could 'change his mind' and force things to fail mid action.

I thought about the must after posting but it doesn't change my statement. The 'must do a melee' doesn't change whether or not gunfighter procs before the bring it action is declared as gunfighter remains before that bring it check.

The only way your method would work is if during bring it, you had to recheck for valid melee actions and that's not how the flow works.

If you're saying 'can I use bring it on a friendly gunfighter model and have him not punch a friend because he's choosing to not use gunfighter' I believe you are correct.  As it's a may, you can choose not to have a melee.  Kinda cheeky but that's 1/2 the fun of bring it (aka figuring out how to use it the most effectively without taking unnecessary damage).

19 minutes ago, Arko said:

He doesn't really want to use proxies, as he likes things being clear on the table, plus, to jump on your question, we are planning to go in tournaments as soon as we can, that is why we are already looking for advices to buy the good things before jumping in, as we don't have illimited amount of money unfortunately. We want to avoid buying boxes for nothing.

Ah, I was asking cause if there's tourneys / players in the area talking to them / seeing what they play / getting a demo game of something youre 'on the fence about' may be a less brain-burney way to decide what you want to play than pouring over charts / graphs.

I'll also say that while Malifaux isn't 100% balanced, I really wouldn't turn anyone away from a master/keyword due to competitiveness concerns.  Some models / keys are a bit over / under 'the curve' but on the whole the keyword system / errata cycle has done way better job at making 'let me buy these boxes that match the master' playable in tourneys / etc than in 2nd edition.  There it was very much 'buy 9 boxes in the faction, each for a single model'.  I mean my meta is currently doing a 20 person single key fixed league with very little ook hire options and there's only 2 repeated keywords (plague and qi and gong).  I know we're not the most competitive crew, but I doubt I'll hear much complaining about the format.

If anything I'd be more worried if you were picking radically different crew types and only playing vs each other, as a hard hitting crew v a heavy schemer one, or a fast v a slow bubble one, can make for some unbalanced feeling games early on.  But if you have people who play / do tourneys nearby you should be able to hook up with a larger community so there'll be less of the 'wow did i just choose a crew that is aweful v my friends' and vice vera 

24 minutes ago, Arko said:

@Corn : Thanks for the advices about the tournaments, so in the end Lynch is dropped as he really doesn't lke the aesthetics of all the other ten thunders stuff.

 

@Azahul : Thanks for the Hamelin breakdown, so Hamelin is out too, because he mostly wanted to play Hamelin 2 (he loves the mini), so if he can't play "full rats" and has to add too many OOK and versatile, that is a no-no for him.

 

@Adran : I am glad to hear that skill is that important in the game, that is rare nowadays in miniature game. That makes us want to play even more.

 

So now my friend is left with the Dreamer but...I play Pandora, so we have a problem as we didn't want to share the same faction...He is going to look at everything again, for the 100th time now 😅 (I advised him to look at ressers again, as they have lots of summoners).

Ha, back to the drawing board, I know that feeling trying to get into a new game....  I know there's been a lot of messages since the initial list yesterday, but I wouldn't worry too too much at this stage about OOK hires / aesthetic of those.  It obviously depends on your area, but as a TO I'd be perfectly OK if someone decided to play Lynch with a proxy emissary or samurai that matches the honeypot aesthetic more than the asian themed ones (and is clearly identifiable as what you're going for).  Some metas are more stringent than others (and the official tournament guide has guidelines on it), but with the release of titles / books coming out months before models do, my local group has gotten a more forgiving with proxies/kitbashes/etc. (actually played a game in a league with witness and my opponent was like 'oh you even got the models' and i was like yeah sure, they came out at gencon....)

I also play a lot of the keywords you initially mentioned nearly 100% in key and while there's be some harder match ups, a lot of keys have a hard match or 2 (and if there's no bad matchups, then I kind of think the key could use a tweak or 2, but thats me).

I can't remember from the initial posts, but are you expecting to mostly play with your friends?  Is there a shop nearby that has players / etc?  Are you going to do vassal / other online gaming options?  As if you're really just doing the 3 of you, getting some crews that play well with pandora could be a good idea or have crossover models with the pandora crew so you could share stuff / etc.

If you're doing pandora, an option that could be interesting would be performer, as there is that shared pandora / colette box so you'll have a colette model floating around (tho you'll have to share dorian), and Colette fits the speed/magic vibe relatively well.  Another interesting one could be Tara or Kirai, as you'd be playing incorporeal v incorporeal and both ignore terrain.

1 hour ago, Arko said:

Alright so, the videos were good and informative, but unfortunately not enough for them to make a choice. It helped them getting rid of some Masters though.

 

So sorry @Firios, but i am going to steal your idea here, I hope you don't mind

 

So this is what they like visually :

 

GUILD

Soniia Criid

Dashel

Hoffman

RESSURECTIONNISTS

Von Schtook

NEVERBORN

Dreamer

Zoraida

ARCANISTS

Kaeris (to be more precise, one of my friend totally fell in love with the "Burning bridges" box, and especially the Firebranded, but apparently they suck?)

OUTCASTS

Leveticus

Hamelin

TEN THUNDERS

Jacob lynch

EXPLORER

Lucas Mccabe

Cooper

 

Gameplay wise, one of my friend likes :

- Everything that is magic related, especially ranged spells, summonning monsters etc...,

- Having a well rounded list, with a bit of range spells, a bit of close combat, a bit of tanking, a bit of everything if possible. He doesn't like "one dimensional" gameplay,

- Movement tricks like teleportation, miniature who can move again, and all those kind of stuff.

 

The other one likes :

- Guns, pistols, rifles, everything that can shoot bullets, he likes range oriented gameplay,

- Fast miniatures and/or movement tricks like my other friend,

- Conditions tokens

- He likes dirty tricks, so anything that can make his opponent a living hell and play with his ressources (like the cards for example)

Interesting List... so for me it would be:

Friend 1 (magic / well rounded / movement):

• Kaeris - has the magic spell casting down + is fast as all get out.  Slightly lower on well-rounded as her key is very focused on what they do, but arcanists have some great versatiles that round out a lot of crews.
• Lynch - not the most magical but 'rig the deck' is very unique and makes you feel like youre a bit of a magician.  Has summons and a lot of different types of models (fast / tarpit / etc).
• Dreamer - again, not the most magical but the summon / nightmare theme makes it feel very interesting and the keyword is very visually appealing.

Friend 2 (guns / speed / conditions / dirty tricks):

• Cooper - has one of the best guns in the game, but his keyword is no 1 dimensional slouch.  Fast puppies and other support pieces give a surprising amount of movement and the big gun / unique totems makes you feel a bit like your cheating.
• Zoraida - doesn't have guns, but as the premier obey master in the game 'dirty tricks' is basically her core mechanic.  Combined with leaping models she's very quick across the board.
• Leveticus - while not specifically a 'gun' crew, it is a high damage crew (which is what most people kind of want when they say guns) irreducible damage / no heal / damage auras makes for a very 'oh you had something for that, thats cute' kind of dirty trick experience.
• McCabe - this one leans more into the speed bit for me, as mccabe / his crew have guns but they're not the greatest, and they arent the sturdiest, but they can be very fast, and there's enough going on in the key / faction to give you some nice options, and the upgrades are very fun to use once you get the hang of it.

Obviously this doesn't mean things cant switch things from group 1 to 2, like kaeris has movement tricks and her core attack has a gun symbol so it's basically a gun by rules even if its a flameblast, and zoraida can be seen as pretty 'magicy' and has a summoner option.  The 'movement' tag in both players requests lets there be a lot more cross pollination.

Prolly wouldnt go for:

• Sonnia - while she's very magicey she's not a very fast keyword, so if controlling placement is a big bit, prolly not for you.

That said most of the stuff on the list has things that fit into those buckets, as you can build a fast hoffman or dashel crew, and schtook tends to have enough versatility to come into most fights even if 1/2 the time that comes from 'i beat down that tricksy piece fast' ha.

No prob. I really like malifaux (been playing it pretty straight since 2019ish) and there's a ton there, but you do need to like that kind of game (2 player head to head kind of stuff).  But whatever you choose, the Wyrd folks are very nice / helpful (met em a few times at conventions and have interacted when things weren't packed exactly right) so they're definitely one of my favorite gaming companies.

1 hour ago, Lillian Huggins said:

Hello!

My name is Lillian. I'm 37 from Portland, Oregon.

I am hoping for some advice on which Wyrd game is good to start out with? 

I like DnD and Small World for reference. Strategy, role play, fantasy, etc. Spooky is a plus!

2 player for sure, more player optional would be nice but not required.

I LOVE painting minis!

I was looking at the website at the different options but it was a little overwhelming. I figured it would be best to ask experienced players! Thanks!

Yeah, there's 5 main offerings in 3 groups right now that I would think of:

• Wargames - The Other Side / Malifaux
  • Style - 2 player games where both players build a list and fight over objectives on a large board.  You don't really buy into a 'game' (as you would a board game where everything is in the box) as much as you download / buy the rules and buy models to use with the rule set.  So playing neverborn in malifaux, I could buy models for 8 different neverborn masters to field in a team.
  • Malifaux
    • pros - large community, lots of unique models to paint / lore associated
    • cons - large game with a lot of ability to 'analysis paralysis' due to the volume of models / actions / effects
  • The other side
    • pros - larger scope / simpler rule base than malifaux tho it shares a lot of similarities
    • cons - small community / odd roll out.  I wouldn't recommend as much until it gets its next big release
• Boardgames
  • While there's a lot on their site there's 2 I would focus on
  • Vagrantsong
    • Cooperative boss battler where you're hobos fighting spooky americana lore ghosts
  • Bayou Bash
    • competitive 'racing' game reminiscent of mario kart.
• RPG - Through the breach
  • RPG set in the same world as malifaux / the other side, uses similar mechanics to the malifaux 2nd edition rules, but that doesnt make it a pure brawler RPG, most storylines I've seen people build have a big intrigue / spy component (tho brawls are also doable).

For me, my recommendation would be Vagrantsong (for a spooky board game that's a relatively low by in) followed by Malifaux / Through the breach.  I love both malifaux and through the breach (and if you want to paint models, you can't beat malifaux), my only issue with starting with through the breach is that playing a little malifaux will give you so much of the world's lore / flavor, that I can't quite imagine jumping straight into a campaign in through the breach without that group memory (tho I'm also a old school D&D player where I knew the lore back and front before playing my first game, so maybe that's just my comfort zone.

One thing that is interesting is that The Other Side / Malifaux / Through the Breach are all in the same universe so the lore is shared / builds on each other.  That's the only downside of vagrantsong, in that it's not in the same universe, so while it's an amazing game, that is something to call out, specially if you've seen the models and want to paint.

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Since it's an Arcanist Upgrade, I would think that you wouldn't be able to take it. Now, I think that the intent might be that Configuration would still be usable in Wizz-Bang (though without the Conduit Ability from the Upgrade) but RAW I'm not sure.

Being an arcanist upgrade isn't a silver bullet on 'can x take it' as special upgrades like this (say skybound ally, reliquaries, etc) are able to be added to crews outside the models home faction.  While we need to see the official ruling on crew (witness) I don't think 'its an arcanist upgrade' is enough to say bayou dabblers can't use it.

1. Ride the Rails - when determining movement for the 12" place, is the 12" measured from the activating model or the scrap marker that it's within 1" of?

The model not the scrap

1. Charge Action - are the movement and the free attack action considered two separate actions when applying affects like Hazardous or Boring Conversation? For example, does a model take two damage if it charges into a model's hazardous aura? Does it have to pass 2 WP duels if it initiates a charge in a Boring Conversation aura?

Yes

1. Terrifying (x) - does a model have to make a WP duel from Terrifying when making an attack triggered by disengage? For example, if Pandora disengages from a model, does the engaging model have to pass the WP duel from Terrifying to make the free melee strike?

Yes

1. Broodfighter - when Barbaros activates at full hit points, is the 2" move granted to just one model, or every model within Aura 4?

Its worded a bit bad but its 'choose any friendly model' so i'd say only 1 model moves not all friendlies otherwise it would be 'friendly models'

1. Galvanize trigger (Sparks LeBlanc) - the trigger refers to "another" model within 3" of this model. In this case, is "another" referencing Sparks or the target of the "Now Yer A Robot" ability? In essence, can the target of "Now Yer A Robot" receive the Focused +1 from Galvanize?

Galvanize is a standard one, and we've tryed to flip 'another' to just mean 'other than the model doing it' so I'd say you cannot galvanize sparks

1. Cursed Objects (GG3 Strat) - If a unit dies while buried, can the opponent discard one Cursed Token before moving the rest to other models or are ALL Cursed Tokens moved to other models when the buried unit dies. I'm having a hard time figuring out if the buried clarification is referring to all Cursed Tokens or just the ones in excess of the discarded one.

Do it in the order you see em, so the 'may remove' hits before the 'move all tokens'

1. Cursed Objects (GG3 Strat) - what does "ignoring that model's engagement range" in the 3rd paragraph mean? I assumed that means that you can take the interact action while engaged, but if that was the intent, I'm confused why it isn't worded the same way as Carve a Path's description which states specifically "may take the Interact Action, even if engaged..." 

Its different because you can put a curse on someone and ignore their engagement but if 2 models are engaging your you're SOL.  There's a few abilities / actions out there with the 'you can ignore a single models engagement range but not a few of em'

1. Covert Operations (GG3 Strat) - Can a strategy marker be claimed by both teams?

yes, same as CLL

1. Torn Into the Void trigger (Thirty-Three) - Is the damage flip from Thirty-Three's Torn Into the Void trigger a straight flip or is the flip status determined by the difference in the opposed duels as if the damage track was printed in the attack.

Trigger effects generated from an attack deal with accuracy, same way that my loyal servants has the accuracy on the heal flip.

1. Do upgrades on models count towards a model's cost? Pretty sure the answer to this is no.

For schemes / strats? no.