Flippin' Wyrd George

Hey all. My regular opponent has been running Dreamer for the past few weeks and I am really struggling to find an answer to deal with the crew. I use Bayou. His usual list is: Dreamer Lord Chompy Daydream x3 Alp Stitched Together x2 Vasilisa Coppelius/Widow Weaver (dependent on game) Cache of around 4-6 I am struggling to make any inroads versus this crew whatever I try. He plays in such that the crew is Lucid Dreaming from the first activation. By the end of turn 1 after summoning an additional stitched together, he has reliably removed 4-5 weak cards and put aside some severe's. He also uses two or three the stitched together to Gamble their life, replacing the flipped card with Fiendish Gamble to essentially guarantee a 3/4/5 dmg flip on the target, he'll often then charge and have a swing which occasionally sticks another 2/3/4 dmg. This has put serious pressure on my crew early Turn two he has reliably removed 10 weak cards and again has a bank of severe's. He does the same as turn 1, but can scheme run a little with summons/spare AP he doesn't need for moving. Turn three there are 14ish reliably removed weak cards, as well as some low moderates. Around this point the game has generally gotten away from me and I find it extremely hard to chase as my opponent is reliably winning most top deck duels, especially defensively on the def6 models. He is also succeeding most every low TN duel as many weak cards have been removed. Normally at this point my opponent has 2-3 stitched, a couple of alps, as well as the majority of the starting crew (perhaps chompy and another starting piece has dropped by now). Now, I'm relishing the challenge of coming up with a solution to beat his crew, so what have I tried? I have tried attacking the stitched together early to try and remove them from the table, but between defence 6, armor +1 and fiendish gamble, they are very difficult to shift without irreducible damage. Also, with Vasilisa, Dreamer and Widow Weaver it is very easy for my opponent to summon them back, so removing the stitched feels like a futile exercise. My opponent does need a summoning card or stone available, but it hasn't seemed a problem so them far. I tried killing the support pieces, Vasilisa, Chompy and Widow Weaver - Vasilisa is very frustrating to move as she has armor 2, and can heal herself for 3/4/5(!) damage with a ram on her Field Repairs. I have pretty much given up on killing her. Between Widow Weavers teleporting and terrifying she is difficult to finish. I have tried leaving the stitched together alone, accepted they will do their thing, and gone for the other pieces. This is very difficult also. Chompy Bits I can deal with, but Dreamer is difficult to touch between his defensive tech. Stripping his hand is something I've considered, but then you still have the Serene Countenance to deal with all the while my crew is taking a battering from all angles. And to be honest, removing Dreamer doesn't feel like it achieves THAT much when there are two other models which can summon, and the rest of the crew still lucid dreams. I have tried bringing the Twelve Cups of Coffee upgrade which gives me access to Diversion to shut down lucid dreaming, but my opponent stays away from this now. I have tried obeying my opponents models to hit Dreamer - this had a lot of success, but he has now wised up to it and keeps non-incorporeal models between his big beaters and dreamer. (I guess obeying the stitched to gamble is going to be my next step as that is lose/lose for my opponent). I have tried completely ignoring most of the crew and running schemes. This did not work, my models were removed with sheer weight of attacks So here's my question. How have you guys dealt with Dreamer, or how have opponents dealt with your Dreamer? I'm really at a loss of what to do. It feels like a constant uphill struggle, taking a battering of hits whilst struggling to make any sort of inroad to a crew which can, with some work, replace any damage you cause. I think the only viable method I've come across is card discard or using obeys, but I don't want to be forced into hiring Zoraida every single time my opponent announces Neverborn. Hoping the hive mind may have a few ideas I can try! Ta for reading the essay 😂

Yeah Twelve cups just makes him more of a tarpit and shuts down a lot of tricks.. I haven't really played around with removing scheme markers for focus but that is a brilliant idea. I'll have to find ways of generating them for him to use! He does take resources to keep alive but it can pay off to have the reliable beater.

Mixed results Very very good with Twelve Cups of Coffee, a bokor for healing and a decent cache. Can stick him in the middle of the board and its very unlikely he is going anywhere! 2" engage and a trigger to focus from his 3/4/6 attack means he can put out some real reliable sustained damage over multiple hits if you want to use the resources. However, unsupported even with demise and regen, at defence 3 he will drop like a sack of anything

We just have different interpretations of the word must and I have failed to persuade you towards mine. Good luck in your endeavor to find a solution that satisfies you.

Ok I can directly address this then. In every day language we do sometimes use the word must in this way to present an option. This is an informal use of the word. The formal definition (taken from Cambridge dictionary https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/must) is: The final example being very very clear. I don't know if I can get my point across any clearer. If you still don't agree, I give up 😂

With respect, I think that the rules and intention are very clear regarding costs and triggers. You can regularly analyse language and find multiple opinions on/meanings of the same group of words, so some intent has to be inferred. The fact I haven't seen this come up versus at least 10 different opponents through beta and official release, and haven't seen anything of the sort on the forum so far, is enough evidence for me 😊

🤯 Sounds like we're on the same page though. Trigger must be declared and card must be discard, if the player has the hand to do so 😊

BBB isn't a bad shout either. I've tried to cut him out of my lists because he was an auto include in every game for a while, and I wanted to try something different and prove I could do alright without using him. Its harder than I thought 😂

This list looks interesting. I'm guessing you are looking to take advantage of Gracie and Porkchop's armor? Otherwise, what is the thinking? I have used Ulix to good effect vs. Viks before. Old Major managed to tank about 4-5 hits before The Sow and a War Pig went hogwild and took the opponents crew out. Emissary looks cool, I've never got it on the table though so not sure what I'd do with it just yet. My opponent, @Mayt ran: Viktoria (with the 6" push at start of game upgrade, can't remember the name) Viktoria Taelor Vanessa Johan Student of Conflict Ronin Ronin and a cache of 8

But if there was a pre-requisite that you must always run the marathon (must declare triggers), this removes the element of choice in registering, because you have to register to run the marathon. You have to declare the trigger You have to discard a card (if able) You have to apply the affects of the trigger (if a card was able to be discarded) If you did not meet the requirements by discarding the card, the trigger fails I don't think there needs to be a rule in the book (there probably isn't, I haven't looked) to explain how to interpret the word "must". Its a very common word in the English language that means something is compulsory. (sorry for jumping mid thread, just saw it on the front page and the rules lawyering frustrated me 😂)

Looks like it was! 😂I was trying to recall from memory. I didn't include the Bokor in the Ophelia game, that must be hangover from a previous one where I tried it. I'll edit the main post - I definitely had 10 activations and 6 soulstones, so that works out correct without the Bokor. Good spot

Second game was with Zoraida vs. @Flippin' Wyrd Matt Colette. This went much better but tiredness and running out of time towards the end of the game meant it slipped away from me. The game was Plant Explosives, Standard; Breakthrough, Dig their Graves, Power Ritual, Outflank, Claim Jump. Zoraida Bad Juju with Twelve Cups of Coffee McTavish First Mate Will O Wisp Silurid Bokor I took Outflank and experimented with Claim Jump on Juju. The game started off well - Bad Juju walked up the table to be within 12" of the Coryphee duet and Cassandra, stood next to Colette, so Zoraida could use an ensorcelled obey to hit Colette which put the pressure on Colette's cache immediately. First mate killed Cassy turn 1 with a red joker for 8dmg (which was stoned, but 2nd hit killed her) and picked up two extra bombs . However, despite early dominance and using an ensorcelled obey + Firsts mates activation turn 2 to drop 3 bombs, with the scheme heavy pool and Colette's disappearing, the dominance wasn't enough to stop her controlling the explosives and running the game down the flanks. I played pretty poorly points wise, and Matt walked away with a pretty convincing win depite losing Joss, Cassandra, a Coryphee, all his doves, and having Colette on 4 wounds with no cache, by the end of turn 3. I pretty much forgot to do Outflank as I was so focused on crippling Matts crew to see what effect it would have on Colette's ability to score points - apparently, not much! Twelve Cups of Coffee was an excellent hire on Juju against this crew. It shut down nimble and any change of Colette burying Juju, and allowed me to discard scheme markers near him for a free action he usually has spare. Claim Jump however was still not viable because Matt would have just waited for final activation and brought Colette next to him to deny the final point. McTavish was solid - highlight being two moderates in a row to deal 6 wds to Joss, killing him. First mate was MVP despite eventually dying to a Soulstone Miner. Killing Cassy T1 and dropping so many bombs would have been game changing against most other opponents/masters. Bokor was solid - healing Juju to full wounds after his demise was just sad times for Matt. I really like the core of this cew - would probably change the Silurid, and McTavish depending on pool/matchup, but I think I'm getting somewhere with Moma Z.

I had another two games yesterday, the first one against the Viks: Ophelia with Inferiority Complex 3x Young La Croix Rami Pere Ravage Merris Sammy First Mate Effigy with Conflux It was Reckoning, Corner; Detonate, Breakthrough, Power Ritual; Assassinate; Deliver a Message. I took Assassinate and Power Ritual. The game was brutual and my crew just couldn't take the smackdown from the Viks. There was a war of attrition where: Pere and one Young La Croix died turn 1 Effigy, two Young La Croix died turn 2, along with a Vik Merris and Rami died turn 3 (My assassinate declared on 2nd Vik, both players scored 1st Power Ritual) Sammy and Ophelia died turn 4 (along with 2nd Vik for my 2nd assassinate, my opponent got one and only assassinate) Turn 5 my opponent scored 2nd power ritual. Finished in a 5-6 loss. I missed the 2nd beater in Francois. I wasn't sure if he pulled his weight in previous games but I can see his place now as a hammer for the anvil. The Effigy died too early to comment on - shame, I'd have liked the Emissary! First Mate was a solid scheme runner as always. Pere Ravage didn't bring much (I was hoping to use him to block charge lanes but forgot the Viks have guns and they just shot him off!) I'm stilling trying to get the hang of how to best use Sammy's Petty Illusions card draw by discarding Ophelia upgrades (If two separate models suffer damage in one activation, can I draw two cards with this ability as they are separate models? Not sure what the ruling was after final beta). I think Ophelia is going back in the box for a bit. She is definitely good herself, just not sure the crew around her is consistently controlled enough for my liking! Despite their defensive shenanigans, they are very squishy. I had much more fun using other crews. I've tried using a Bokor previously for some healing but it was very hard to get any legs out of him with TN needing a 7 and moderate to heal anything significant.

I tried Spawnmother but didn't find I had the resources to support her, Juju, 1st Mate, Zoraida and the rest of the crew, to the best effect. I'm sure she's good, but it was a little overwhelming trying to learn all the mechanics at once and use them to good effect. Might return to her after a few games.

Yeah fair play. I think I hired two because, at the end of the day, they are extremely killable. I must admit when I ran them it felt a little overkill.

They can attack the voodoo doll and give Stunned, Distracted and Slow to the voodoo target. Very useful.

I hadn't considered this. Hmmm.

I've branched out a little more now! Have played Mah Tuckett, Ophelia and Zoraida now, as well as a few more games of Zipp. I think Zipp's crew is in serious need of mobile models that can work well independently. Mctavish was a really good hire with him in a recent game. Mah is ridiculous good. Her imitative shenanigans are always useful and being able to stack 1-3 focus on your entire crew turn 1 by using Horrible Horrelin' ram trigger is filth. Plenty of card cycle in the crew too. I've only had one game with Ophelia and Zoraida. Ophelia looks like she will be able to deal some hardcore dmg at range. Her upgrade mechanic (can't remember the name) where after taking an action she can discard it to deal 1dmg to a model within 6" is hyper good. She would be a great second master, but with some UK tournaments already restricting second masters I'm not going to try this myself. Zoraida is also a lot of fun. Still working on what my core crew will look like, but it almost certainly will include two willowisps, Bad Juju and at least 1 Bokor. Bayou life is still goooooood!

Does rely on having a 9 of masks in your hand whilst discarding a marker near to BBB though. Not sure I'd spend a 9 of masks and a scheme marker on a single card which could be lower than the 9 of masks I've just spent . 2 was plenty enough for me haha.

I too have the alt Ulix box I loved painting it, and was disappointed there isn't anything extra to add to the crew alternate model wise. I did get some little bunnies to use as piglets but didn't massively like how they turned out, so decided to greenstuff some hair onto Piglets and War Pigs and paint the hair in brighter colours to try and fit the theme (I'll upload a picture later). Personally, I think your next purchases (aside from Squealers when they release, Piglets and War Pigs) should be The Sow, Big Brain and First Mate (if you can get him) easily. My Ulix crew at the moment looks like Ulix Penelope Old Major The Sow Slop Hauler Piglet Big Brain Brin First Mate Ulix, Penelope, and Old Majot speak for themselves First Mate is pretty much auto include in any crew at the moment. Pseudo min 4/5/7 dmg track on a model with leap and the ability to remove/draw cards, with stealth and butterfly jump and access to stones? He is mad. I have not played a game without him and he always scores significant points. 10 stones well spent in any crew. Next piece is two have at least two piglet summoning models. I like the Sow and Slop Hauler as they use different suits for their summons, and the Sow is far tankier than a Hog Whipserer (despite the 2 stone increase). I did run the Hog Whisperer alongside the Slop hauler for a while but they competed for similar resources and the Hog Whisperer's obey was overkill between Penelope, Big Brain Brin and Ulix's Herd 'em. Piglet is there to grow into a War Pig first turn - with tome triggers you can get this pretty far up any flank to counter enemy scheme runners, or if you like keep it central and make use of Old Major's ability for rams and positives (Set em off?). Big Brain Brin brings much needed condition removal, Arcane Reservoir and the ability to stack the deck. Not to be underestimated. Some people do not like him or get much legs out of him, but a couple well timed Calculate the Possibilities and near guarantee severe/red joker damage off of a few severe 6 dmg models - brutal. Also increases your chance to draw a couple of severe's in your hand off of it too! I did try Gracie for a while but found she didn't really pull her weight for the 8 stones. On paper she looks excellent, but being on a 50mm base with move 4" (5" near Penelope) and a 0" engage, it just meant that she didn't have much space to act between terrain, war pigs, old major and the sow. I'm sure she can work, just didn't suit my playstyle.

I tried Zoraida vs,. Nekima for the first time this week. We were playing Plant Explosives in Wedge with Harness the Ley Line Search the Ruins Take Prisoner Assassinate Claim Jump I hired: Zoraida First Mate Bad Juju Spawnmother Gupps Gateaux Baker Will o Wisp Will o Wisp This was my first day out with Zoraida and I had barely read the cards (though I have played against her twice) so was really just getting to grips with it. I took Assassinate and Search the Ruins with the thought that between Bad Juju and ensorcelled obeying Mature Nephilim I could deal with Nekima, while First mate and Gupps run off doing explosives and scoring Search the ruins. Managed to sneak a 7-6 win. Bad Juju dropped Nekima from 7hp to dead in one activation for single assassinate point. Between the Bokor and Zoraida's def trigger they were able to keep her alive to deny my opponents 2nd point for assassinate. The game was won turn 5 with Zoraida's activation. She managed to ensorcelled obey a terror tot with a bomb, who was ready to drop my opponents 4th bomb, to run onto my opponents of the board and drop a 4th bomb for me, then used her final 2 AP to Hex it dead, for a two point swing from a loss to a victory :D I didn't feel like the Spawnmother brought much. Between mindless and needing eggs, summoning gupps still feels a little gimmicky, and growing Silurids looks like a rare occurrence. Maybe I'll change my mind after a few more games though. Resource management was surprisingly difficult despite Zoraida's bonus action to draw a new hand. I think final version release restricting one voodoo upgrade in the crew has gone someway to balancing her. All in all, a thoroughly enjoyable game.

Fairly sure I'm paid up Dave!

Will dual master be banned Lew?

Hi all The past three weeks I've moved factions to Bayou from Arcanists for M3E as I wasn't getting much fun out of my Arcanist crews anymore. Holy wow. The amount of fun and power in the Bayou is insane! It's totally revitalised my hobby. Just wanted to share a few thoughts, and curious of opinions on them. Currently I find Big Brain Brin and First Mate go in every crew without exception: First Mate is extremely versatile - can get to 4/5/7 damage with a ram card and is nearly always drawing a card. He also scheme runs like crazy, and makes an excellent anti scheme runner. Butterfly jump, Stealth and soulstone access means he's almost not worth bothering with for the opponent. He can do everything. Big Brain Brin's Calculate the possibilities is mad too. Being able to discard 20 cards and shuffle 6 from your discard pile back into your deck is very powerful - you should be getting 2 red jokers most turns, and if timed correctly, it can turn the final few flips of your deck into a really oppressive experience for your opponent. First mate managed 15 damage across 2 AP today by using Brin's deck stack. The condition removal is also necessary in most games. Canceling triggers and Serene Countenance is just gravy. What are your thoughts on these models? As for the masters, I'm thoroughly enjoying Ulix for all the AP manipulation, card draw and positioning mechanics but it does feel like a bit of a glass cannon if touched in the right places. War Pigs are insanely good - this weekend at a tournament one of my War Pigs vs @shakes1066 climbed from 1hp to full wounds by hitting Tear of Bite three times then gaining Eat your fill. In another game a single War Pig killed both Viktoria's from full health to dead in 5 AP, whilst my opponent discarded 4-5 stones trying to save them. Ulix being able to grow and obey the same pig 3 times a turn has real potential too - so much movement! Today I had my first games with Mah and she is ridiculous good - the activation control by gaining pass tokens off initiative together with the card draw across the crew, and being able to make all models within pulse 3 focus sets the crew up for a huge punch turn 2/3. My opponent today claimed it was the most powerless he has ever felt in a game of Malifaux.... Not sure if that's a good thing I've dabbled with Zipp but haven't really worked out what I'm doing with him yet - considering putting the Trench Coat on a skeeter so it can carry Mancha Roja around. I've also looked at Brewmaster too but haven't had the opportunity to put him on the table. Fingers' Pilfer trigger seems crazy good - a 2 soulstone swing feels a little like cheating haha. Been looking at Zoraida, Ophelia and Wong too - so much to try (Big Hat seems a little underwhelming?). How have your experiences been of the first 2 months of Bayou, with the M3E official rules? Do we feel a little too good? (Currently, I worry we are!)

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