Kaos

Nightmare Leveticus crew with a ginormous desolation engine as extra model.

I will read it again, 3 actions for a waif doesn't look like a good deal to be honest. You're probably right.

Yesterday I run Leveticus with Aether shackles and Untimely demise. 

I'm sold on demise, I don't know about Arther Shackles. I realized it takes 3 actions to summon a waif, while initially I thought it was just one action. My opponent was playing arcanists so I thought I had some good time removing scheme markers but did not happen, since he played Rasputina instead of Colette (with claim jump I was expecting Colette).

And I'm still thinking about Lazarus. He is a outrageous tank, but he is so expensive...

Maybe a riot breaker can take the same role of tough anchor and can find the space to fit in a engineer to generate more card drawings and give away that juicy +1 ARM (even to the riot breaker) and double up as backup anchor. 

I have mixed feelings on incorporeal. I feel like is a good ability on wrong models, since it's generally placed on models with low Wk. If a incorporeal model was fast enough, it would be a nightmare to catch it in the open, while he zip trough walls and terrain while placing scheme markers. A scheme runner with incorporeal and let's say, don't mind me, would be absolutely bonkers.

Since you're a terrible person, you're going to give him obscured, in case someone will have the hilarious idea of shooting him.

What about a combination of Anna, Obsidian, engineer? Alyce would also be super cool but looks like points don't fit.

Or maybe yes, these 4 cap at 36 so there are about 9 to spend with 5 ss left in stash.

Maybe one necropunk and some upgrades.

It looks like a big ball of death and denial but with not much mobility.

Exactly, of you are willing to pay a 8ss tax to keep the sacrificial Vicky alive. I don't know if it's worth it but if you take the models for other reasons it can be viewed as a nice extra. I would have taken Marlene if her ability worked with all models and not just with the leader. Could have been a insurance on pieces like Alyce or even a reactivated desolation engine. 

The problem is Talos bury is functional to his abilities and also heal him up, so I think isn't so situational. To be at his best the bury need to happen. The good thing he has ARM+1 so can be boosted by the engineer. 

I kinda like it also because 3/4/5 is not a bad damage track and eventually 8 SS isn't a cost so steep to pay, but if his healing abilities are denied, isn't too hard to kill. Two models can probably wreck him, since Df 4 and 9 Wd aren't so tanky. With ARM+2 and obscured now is much more interesting. 

But is a 14 SS combo, so it's a steep price to pay.

But Marlena is really the odd one. I don't understand the design process for which she should be aligned with Leveticus crew.

As far as I see it:

Benny: Hamelin

Engineer: Von Schill

Prospector: maybe Parker

Talos: Tara

Marlena: theoretically Leveticus, pragmatically Vickys

Midnight Stalker: no one in particular

I tried one necropunk last time, quite fine, the small bugger doesn't get shoot as much as the big scary and wrecking things. I'm keep finding Lazarus underwhelming. Great to tank but very pillow fisted for a 10 ss model. 

What do you think of the stuff from broken promises? Prospector and Night stalker looks cool choices, the new Leveticus protegee instead looks completely antisynergic with him. The extra entropic shoot is nice when is about putting some unreducible damage to a model, but her signature ability, soul tether, looks completely useless on Leveticus. Because why the hell you wouldn't want him to die when you can get up untimely demise and make 2 other damage to whoever is engaging him? Or more simply bury him so he can pop up somewhere else?

The Talos looks interesting but without other burying engines quite underwhelming. I think it can he taken as sideboard when you know you face stuff that like to bury themselves, but probably you would play Tara in that case, and the Talos looks quite better in her crew.

The guild pacekeeper looks like a cheap anchor and can substitute Lazarus in the roadbump / tank role. 

Obsidian statue looks a decent bruiser, with a decent synergy with the old man, but it would benefit of more casting damaging attacks, and the ability range is quite limited (only 3", most models will just pile up on the statue to avoid being shoot), so the ability looks situational at best.

I didn't find anything interesting into the resser stable, but maybe I'm overlooking some stuff.

Last the engineer. Apparently looks cool, but basically is synergic only in Freikorps. Unless you go Freikorps heavy (librarian, Hanna, strongarm suit) looks like she will not have many chances to bull model armors, Since Freikorps are the one reliably spamming Armor +1. She can be a decent card drawing engine coupled with a pair of abominations thou. Aboms can hit for 1 card, Levi sac one for 2 cards and the engineer discard one corpse marker for another one, while Alyce resummon the abomination with from aether from the scrap marker. 

4 cards in a single turn is nothing to scoff at.

For what I can say, there are several Levi friendly scenarios.

Symbol of authority is doable with A&D and necropunks.

Ours could be viable, considering is it viable to kill opponent models quickly and have big in cost models who don't want to die to contest. 

Public execution can be fine if Leveticus will not be used to kill stuff (since he can't then kill himself or will lose the condition). Or you can make him stay on the board, if he activate last and see if you can win initiative and activate him first the turn after.

Symbol of Authority can be viable with scheme runners, also supply wagon look fine considering we can use large base stuff like A&D or Lazarus that push faster. Under some conditions A&D could be able to push 2 times. Summon a scrap marker with alice in suitable position, walk Ashes, push, use 0 to push Ashes in contact with scrap (who will be convenientely near the wagon), push the wagon again. 

Regarding schemes:

Punish the weak: Bread and butter for killy crews.

Surround them: doable

Guarded trasure: maybe not so good

Eliminate the leadership: ok but will give away 1 VP. But it's very unlikely the opponent will take it vs Levi.

Covert Breaktrough: doable

Dig their graves: hate this but doable

Set up: probably better with another master

Hold up their forces: doable

Undercover entourage: another Levi signature scheme

Inescapable trap: if you have belles maybe?

Show of forces: doable, I suppose, if you build for it

Search the ruins: can be doable. Leveticus with scheme removal looks good to play into this if the opponent choose it.

Take one for the team: doable

Take prisoner: If you lift every other model from the table can be viable

Recover evidence: not sure about this one

Public demonstration: it probably depends which tanky minions you can hire for this

Vendetta: difficult. But looks difficult for everyone.

The general consensus is GG2018 will brin back elite crews back, since there is a far mix of scheme scenarios and killy-kill scenarios. 

Since Leveticus can run well in both situations, looks like he will be in a good place scenario wise.

Keget how do you use leveticus in your lists especially without a card drawing engine? Does he pull weight or you just use him to bring in strong pieces together?

And above all, your last list is really resser piece heavy. What makes you play it with Leveticus instead of a resser master?

The only issue in the write up is leveticus can't both sacrifice a&d and summon waif, since they're both (0) actions.

Eventually the list net 10 activations, enough to out activate most crews.

I wonder if there is a way to kill the desolation engine after reactivating it and then reform for another round of combat.

I need to try this desolation bomb combo, looks quite fun.

Just to avoid derailing the errata thread further, let's talk a bit of playing Levi competitively. Looks like players have different opinions and some of them looks quite strange since I don't understand the philosophy behind the list. So let's see what you think is a competitive list and why. I'll start to describe what works for me. I'm not a strong scheme player so it means I lose or Draw because I'm ignoring my objectives or picked wrong schemes.

But with this list I usually almost table my opponent on the third turn. Then I got more or less 2 turns to try out take as much points I can.

Leveticus

-untimely demise

-aether shackles or desolate soul

Rusty Alice

-from Aether

Ashes and dust

Lazarus

Abomination

Abomination

This crew is around 45 ss so it leaves you 5 ss in cache. If you don't pick desolate soul you don't need many of them.

The two abominations are your card drawing engine. Basically you hit Lazarus for 1 point of damage due to armor to draw a card. Then you heal him on his activation with self repair. Aboms since are such annoying are also wonderful sucker models. In case you need to go all out, you can kill the abomination for 2 cards or use it to reposition leveticus for a channel shoot focus shoot action. When the abomination dies, it can be resummoned with Alyce, who just need a suitable high card. But since this crew can draw, shouldn't be a big problem.

Leveticus with 8 cards in hand can do stuff and if you use the abomination to set a charge, he can hit super hard with a channel-focus-charge activation. Cheat a 11+ on damage and you're looking at putting 8 or more damage in a single activation. Untimely demise can provide a 2 more damage if he's killed and if you were able to pull out a charge by resurrecting on a waif near an enemy, you will be able to use it in the same turn, probably one shooting big pieces and even making other abominations out of them. Unfortunately Alyce doesn't have big reactivate targets, like a desolation engine. But since she can summon and put down decent damage, she is quite functional. No abomination on table meaning no draws and few cards in hand makes Leveticus a sad panda.

The crew doesn't fare so well in scheme running, but it's possible to swap Lazarus for some other construct and place the pain of abomination abuse on ashes and dust instead. He usually don't care much about dying and reforming and you can take a 6ss anchor and a scheme runner like a necropunk. Or a 6ss anchor and a hodgepodge effigy.

Just now, trikk said:

Im not saying she's awful but I doubt I'd take her in a competetive Levi list.

We are a bit off topic, but just out of curiosity, what do you play in a competitive list?

Perdita is 2/4/5 anyway meaning 2 more damages per activation. And she has critical strike.

Also his hiring pool thing means he need to pay a 1ss tax if he is hiring only one model. And I do not care about terracotta because I do not want that tax to raise even more to just get a different upgrade.

What he can access with the upgrade is a pushing model usually, like a doxie, since we do not have it in outcasts or maybe some utility constructs. The point is space in his crew is limited. 

You probably want ashes and dust

You probably want rusty Alyce

So you have one slot left for a expensive mode. You can take Lazarus, or you can take a 6 ss model and one utility 4 ss model (maybe a effigy). So I'm not sure the upgrade is really worth it. 

I can play maybe without Alyce, but then who recycle abominations when they die?

It's a ca 7 with a shooting symbol, meaning a cover can put a serious span in your plans. You will mostly get a - flip on damage most of the time without focusing (if you hit) and a straight flip with focus. Cheating a serious if you got the card and you did not use it to cheat the hit flip give you 4 DMG. The second unfocused shoot will probably give you 2 (still if you hit). Meaning you will get 6 average. Unless you don't take a walk action and focus 2 times. And we're talking about models in the open. In cover you will probably hit 4 DMG if not less due to missing. 

The new argument is "but you should hit wounded models". This is ok until something tarpit your models so you can't shoot because you're going to randomize on your models, that isn't so bad since they're gonna hit in HTH with the engaged model, but depending on the model you could not be able to summon the abomination or to even hit at all. Or pull off the attack, if such model has 2 or less wounds left.

I really don't see this damage potential.

I struggle to reliably put 8. I would say 6 and sometimes not even that due to missing. If you have a trick there, explain it to me. Tally sheet is a upgrade and as such available to everyone so not really Leveticus perk.

I also think viks got a quite rad upgrade.

One channel and half, as I proposed, isn't going to break him probably.

Wait. 

He can ignore soulstones if you get the trigger. He can create abominations if you get the trigger and kill something (and here reside the main problem. You don't reliably kill something). You don't get cards killing something. You get cards if you sacrifice your own models. That you can definitely do if you play ashes and dust but otherwise you are going to sacrifice a model for that. You can get soulstones if you have the effigy, but any master can do, so isn't really leveticus perk and to be honest works better with viks.

Again, he is not crap. I think the new upgrades are brilliant because they bring his melee play back and make him ask questions. They bring a more reliable abominations summoning engine since you don't need the suit. They bring in scheme control, and combined with leveticus artificial mobility that is good (but not so good, if the opponent remove schemes to score, you will not make it in time, since you need to die to move where you want and will happen only on the next turn, but would hurt crews like Colette).

It's one step below being good. He just need a push in the right direction. Consider what other (already powerful) masters got and you will see he is being a bit mistreated due to an atavic fear he can potentially break the game again.

25 minutes ago, Thana. said:

The idea that Leveticus and A&D are in any way subpar is pretty wild to me... grass must always be greener I guess :P.   

Ashes and dust is fine. Expensive but completely worth it.

Leveticus is just one step below being good. It was too good and was nerfed too hard. So in comparison of other masters is lackluster. Because he can reposition and come back from the death as much as he wants but if you don't kill stuff or support the crew he's just mucking around.

Or you take both at the hefty price of 4 wounds. Meaning you will be able to take channel 3 times but last time will affect only to hit or to damage, since you do not have enough wounds to use it the 4th time.

I would bring back a powered up channel because it's either this or going through a complete redesign. To me is quite impossible to make a beatstick not a beatstick without making him bad or redesign. The perk of play leveticus, apart making him die very turn (and he must die because it's is perk), it's to hit things hard and summon killing things. 

So the old channel mean making him 6 ap and this is a bit unacceptable. Agreed. So I will say it could be acceptable to make him use it as much as he wants but he can get the + flip either on hit or damage at his choice. You don't get the + on bith flips and you will be able to use it 3 times (6 wounds) before he dies so he would be about 50% more effective than now but a bit more flexible. 

Regarding from ash, it's bad and if it has to be taken need to be less difficult to pull out. Also do you really want to use your tactical action for that instead of drawing 2 cards, repo or summon a waif? Also it cost 2ss and this makes it ludicrously expensive.

Regarding the new upgrades, people find not so good, I think they are good. It gives Leveticus a chance to play melee  more aggressively especially if you take  both so you can afford to leave him on thr table instead of summoning the waif since you can resummon her later. So is more viable to pull a game like sac a undead, pop leve, stabbity stab and then leave it there so he makes 2 DMG to anyone killing him and summon abominations if that kills other models. I think he asks a strong question. Are you going to kill the old man and take 2 dmg to everyone there or leave it be and then risk another round of stabbity stab with a potential 8 DMG on serious? And more aboms? 

The second upgrade offer a scheme control device, since you can and will remove enemy schemes and a tool to replenish your waifs. So you don't feel bad every time you use a tactical action other than summoning the waif.

Up Leveticus combat potential by a bit and he is golden. If he can do let's say from 6 to 8 damage reliably I would be happy with that. 

His big hiring pool that most people see as great, I could really skip that. Yes it's bad because it does invalidate people purchases, but if the master is invalidated instead altogether, isn't worse? Since no one will play it ever as with that the large collection of off-faction models bought? And yes you can still play it for fun, but I'm a bad person and I also want a fair chance to win and compete. If I am in to be a punch ball I'll rather not play at all.

On 1/17/2017 at 10:46 PM, Franchute said:

Quick comment: necropunks and valedictorian can be taken with pariah of iron too.

updated

Good take on ashes and dust I will add your write up as I sit in front of my PC.