Kaos

Is still possible playing Leveticus with his core crew (abominations, engine, ash and dust, etc) or you really need to put other stuff (and making him play like other masters) to get something good out of him?

Maybe you should take this a sign from a greater power. Stormrisen sound more original and cool. If you do not have to reedit something already printed, well I would condider it.

I like the big monsters, wouldn't mind a formula with big monsters making the small guys tougher. I will of course need to see the details if mechanics to make a decision, so I hope they will go on Kickstarter with something more beefy than what we got now. I already play other systems and I don't feel like investing in other stuff unless I'm completely sold on them. I must say base mechanics looks interesting. I appreciate the take on the morale. Some games are dropping it because is a dice roll that decide too much. I like the fact that units can become powerful if they complete special objectives. Still skeptical about the card system in a bigger game, but ready to get impressed.

Few pictures and these cuties are already striking my fancy. They look a crossover between Cthulhu, tyranids and wrath of Kings hadross. What can possibly go wrong? So looks like they will be obviously melee focused. I hope we are not talking about the glass cannon ancient formula but something tanky. The guy on the site with the hardened shell doesn't look exactly the fastest chap on the road but sure looks like he can take few bullets and shrug it off.

I love this board. Not for the uncanny display of craftsmanship (well done on that side) but because I think you caught the creepy atmosphere perfectly. Just a small note: I would have loved if you would have put in the gallery all kind of creepy small paintings. When you posted that image of the models inside the building it was gold. I hope you will make more buildings with creepy details. Something not too big and obvious but something small like a Easter egg, something that make you say "that's so cool" when you find it. 10 out of 10 and waiting for more.

Looks promising man. Keep going.

The mechanical reason to dislike the change is that he does nothing apart not dying. He doesn't kill models, he doesn't support his crew. We already discussed how the extended hiring pool is situational at best. So what this master is really supposed to be? The ultimate verdict here looks like is "leave him to the shelf and play something else". Meaning the rule change wasn't a good idea after all if made a piece no longer competitive or basically unplayable. Whatever comes in the next books, unless is some specific Leveticus only upgrade, will not change the issue. Even if they make the strongest and broken outcast henchmen ever, you will fare much better hiring him with another master that has more board presence or support power of Leveticus. When a change on rules is decided on the direction of making something less powerful is always something delicate since several pieces stand on the line of being broken or unplayable.

The "huge huring Pool" thing is a Trap, since several masters synergies much better than him with these extra models. Unless there is some kind of insane combo with outcast plus hired model, then isn't do useful. Also outcast models can be hired by other factions but doesn't look like they particularly shine. However paria of metal is marginally better since constructs can be find in more than one faction.

Would be cool if the condition can be given by other crew models as well (abominations, desolate engine, Ashen and Dust) so you can have a sort of synergy between them and Leveticus. So you can tag by any of your models and then go for the kill.

For my point of view people aren't coming with solutions because there aren't so many solutions. You choose your central piece in the army for 2 main reasons. 1) He's a obscene beatstick 2) He synergies well with his theme army. Leveticus lost the obscene beatstick selling point and has no synergy selling point. For which reason you should play him with the abominations /Ashen and Dust army? What does he do for them? If someone shed light on this we can understand better where he is now. The summon abominations ability looks kinda lacking since everyone of his cute friends can do it and arguably can do it even better than him. So let me understand why a piece should be better with Leveticus instead of any other outcast master.

And his "obey like" ability isn't a obey like ability at all. It works only with friendly models and it works only with melee attacks. So no pulling enemies outside of cover or in charge range, no extra shooting attacks for your friendly models. It's a quite huge difference.

And what he has exactly to represent the scavenger property? What did they give him to switch him from a beat stick to a more control or summoning oriented master? I agree about the tournaments. The "accumulated tournament results" argument was made by someone else so it was worth to mention that they don't really show a incredible Leveticus domination over the other masters. Looking at the card I see basically all his abilities are tailored for him to get stuck in melee (and try to make new abominations by killing other stuff) and then get out of melee sacrificing himself. So either you possess a version of his card different than mine, or I'm completely missing the point here.

Look, I really think "who invent the game knows better" it's a kinda poor argument, since I saw several cases of perfectly fine pieces/rules (according to the the creators) that were exploited to no end (look at magic the gathering and the banfest in Urza Saga and Mirrodin for example) and the "3 years of game testing for the new edition" meme from another well know game where they had if not first day, first week erratas. And where they admitted they royally missed the point of a entire army that will be redone at the start of the new year. So much for 3 years of testing... But let's say I agree with all that you said, so you're supposed to use soulstones and all this. What's the reasons of diminishing his already small soul cache then? Give him that extra soulstone to burn right? I see most masters average 2 to 3 soulstones so the decision to make him a master with the least soulstones available is kinda debatable. Also looking at the tournament winning distribution looks like it's pretty fair (please note I checked last year tournament results) with Resurrectionists having a better run than other armies, with 5 wins overall at major tournaments and followed by the guild and outcast at 3 wins each. Arcanists and Gremlins see the lowest success rate with 1 first place each.

My concern about the errata is making him losing his role. If you have beatstick, something with nothing more than raw damage output, and you change it to lower his damage output in a drastic manner, then you have a useless model. It basically fail to do what is designed to do. When I look at the old card and the new card I see not only is his ability was changed drastically but also the soul stone cache and this is really looks like a over modification. Taking a piece and making him weaker AND more expensive to play unless is still a top model, is really overkill. His playstyle clearly enough was about taking damage, die and come back. This mechanic was changed since he can't now trigger his main ability multiple time, so the game plan need to change as well. The bad thing is he got nothing else to make up for his loss (usually in the design process if you change something you give it something else to make up for what is was changed) and compel players to find new strategies.

So if I get this right: -Activate my stuff -Activate Levi last -Charge the big guy -Stabbity stab -Suicide for waif -Move waif the hell out of there (like spend all the actions walking in a more suitable place) Should be able to activate waif just after Levi without any other activation in between since I'm outnumbering the enemy. Is it correct?

You made me extremely sad. I purchased a Leveticus box as my first crew since I liked the unique yo-yo summoning playstyle and cannot be done anymore? I see for 2 damages he get to earn focused, so basically it's just a once off ability. I'm not sure if he can still wreck face like he is supposed to do. Also I do not understand well the waif thing. He can die to summon a waif, in his LoS. So he hits someone, die to summon a waif in 6" to him and then the waif get autokilled since is in the middle of the fray. How do this work?

Good stuff, first is getting a starter and fully paint it, then of everything goes well, getting another starter, so I'm looking at at least 5 months before being ready.

I think we're looking at 5 or 6 players at the club. There are other clubs but I think we can come together once every 2 or 3 months. So pushing it every month I do expect a low turnout and if the turnout is too low people will start losing interest quickly. Add to this we do not have any local suppliers of miniatures and things become more complicated.on We don't work with stores, because there are none supporting what we usually play, but we have a club in a nice venue. We run already 4 major systems at the venue, so there is already a lot happening. Our game nights are essentially pitch and play, you come with your toys and find an opponent on the flight or schedule a game with someone. But we generally do not impose a specific system during specific days, to make sure everyone can play what he prefer. Most of people come with different game systems so they can be sure to get a game. Of course firstly we need to see how things go, then we can think of build a proper environment. We are still waiting for our models to come form the US.

I looked at the henchmen program and it could interest me. Not in the immediate future since I'm just starting and I want to get grip of the game first, apart having the 2 required starters. I read through the informative on the website, make sense to me in general, but there is something that left me a bit perplexed. It's about the requirement of one event per month. Looks like you need to maintain a quite taxing schedule and since our starting group isn't going to be too large and we also play other systems, I think one event per month is a bit overdoing it. Because let's be honest, I want people to keep playing also other systems and avoid burnouts (I'm suffering for burnouts myself ATM, since I played a game very competitively and now I feel very drained after I won the club tournament, I think this is the reason also I'm looking at another system). So it's the one event per month a strictly requirement or just a guideline?

I think the best solution in this case is to have the same master with different rules (and even models) so you can choose which version you like best. A but like on warmahordes where you have different incarnations of the same warcasters (and this was done in confrontation the first time ever if I'm not mistaken). If they mostly retain the same flavor but play in different ways, is a win/win. Get more version of your master for your favorite crew.

My reasoning about the ranged anchor is that if I would play vs something like that, I would try to snipe the waif first. Meaning my opponent probably want to keep them as far as possible from the action (considering Levi as a 0 action to teleport into the fray at the cost of one undead model). So the fact the need an anchor is a big liability since a piece is needed to stand back and not get job done to ensure Leveticus survivability. I don't think both waif need to be anchored since you should know where you want to be at the next reincarnation cycle but of course if your only anchor dies, you're in trouble. I still need to understand how the summon waif ability is supposed to work, since summoning a waif in 6" sounds like a dead waif unless: 1) you went for a surgical strike, you remove the enemy piece and then summon a waif to be somewhere else next turn then run the waif in position on the subsequent turns. 2) you manage to summon her behind a wall of meat so next turn you are able to place Levi near the fray and charge as soon you can activate him to make him die again. I can see there are lot of activation problems that come with this guy strategy, even of being where you want, when you want and have multiple lives is quite powerful.

Oh nice i see the base box has 4 abominations and not 3 as I tought. So what should get to expand? Probably a desolation engine and? I suppose some ranged models as anchors?

No more abominations? Not even for summoning? I agree I wouldn't hire many, but I will need models for summoning, isn't it? I would like to buy just the box, but since I usually order online and stuff take time to arrive, I usually go for few bigger orders instead of small frequent one to avoid to be killed by expedition fees.

I think I'm quite sold on Leveticus, but my expand plan was quite different. I was planning to get killjoy, that can be placed into Levi or abominations, necropunks, another box of abominations and Lazarus. I was looking at ashes and dust, interesting mechanic but i think he is a bit too constrained in his actions, since he need to flank and be close to the border so you cannot throw him into the fray to force piece trading. So I don't find it too necessary at the moment. Maybe it has some kind of interaction I still not grasp. I was also looking at the spider constructs to have cheap card drawing engines, but at 4 soulstones each they don't look so cheap. Oh and probably the effigy of hodgepodge, since is always a pleasure to earn something back when you kill something.

Howdy, I'm a potential new player and I had a quick look at the rules and some video of games on youtube. I see there are very different choices in this game to make and mostly isn't about the faction you want to play but about the master. As factions, on a aesthetic side, I liked Neverborn and probably Guild. But looks like they don't really match what I like to play. So in choosing a faction, this is what I look at. Hope you can help me to make the right choice: 1) Unique gameplay. I usually don't like to play what every one else does and I like more to play something with strange mechanics. I think gunlines are extremely boring, so I generally avoid shooty armies. I usually like armies with few hard to kill elite units more than armies that swarm the table. 2) Strength. No one wants to be steamrolled. I know there are players who don't mind to lose as long as they play a characterful army. I'm not really one of them. I like to have something kinda competitive. If you need to lose the first 5 or 10 games, be it. But having impossible match ups and being tabled without any chance of retaliation isn't something I really like. 3) Aesthetic. Highly subjective this, but I like to play something I kinda like how it looks. At the moment all looks nice to me so I do not have any prejudice against any army in particular. I liked most neverborn but it looks like isn't really the army for me, since it's really about glass cannons. So looking and looking, I was mostly attracted by Leveticus. I has a unique playstyle and I liked the mix of steampunk and carcasses he can field. Also he is a completely mad scientist so it's a bonus. The problem is I heard he was Cuddled hard and is lacking on the competitive side, also that is a very difficult master for a new player. Since I'm not new from wargames (I'm a quite competitive warmahordes player) I think I can handle it. Also I don't mind to lose my first games as long as I have fun with crazy interactions. Would you suggest it, is the base box any good? Which alternatives I have? Thanks in advance for your replies.