hydranixx

Glad to have helped. First things first, I'll preface my suggestions by saying that I don't rate Mei Feng in Arcanists very highly, but Mei Feng in Thunders can be very strong especially if the player is good. The match up will depend heavily which faction she's playing. Either way, Ressurs do have all the tools required to deal with her. Carrion Emissary with Carrion Conflux pays off big time vs Mei Feng as the to nearby Minion Attacks means she can't just Vent Steam once just to deny your Lures - she needs to Vent Steam twice just to keep you on negative flips, so 2/3 of her activation is wasted just trying to stop you, and even then you could decide to just Focus -> Lure for a straight flip anyway. His wall can also be crucial for separating Mei Feng from other models that she wants to protect. A few things in general when hiring other models or picking masters vs Mei: - Impossible to Wound is worth a lot in this match up as it is very annoying for Mei Feng - a lot of her common picks (Shadow Emissary, Rail Workers) as well as herself have trash Min damage. - Bring multiple models that ignore Armour or can summon models that ignore Armour. - Mei is permanently immune to Slow and Paralyze and Kang is always an option to completely deny Horror duels, so don't invest heavily in Terrifying-based play styles. - Students' Lecture Notes are incredibly powerful against Mei Feng, both offensively and defensively. - She's very fragile without her Df trigger and her attacks are terrible if they can't combo into multiple additional attacks through their triggers, and Lecture Notes stops all of this.

Here's my thoughts on 35ss with Reva: Don't bother with Kentauroi. One of their greatest abilities is ferrying masters around so they don't have to waste AP or card walking, and Reva is the only master they can't do this for since she's HT3. They're also insanely easy to kill for their price, and when one dies in a 35ss game, which it will, you're really going to feel it. You're right that our Emissary can seem steep at 35s; anything at 10ss would. Even so, it's worth considering if you're going minion-heavy. If you commit to something like 1-2 Belles and 2 Shieldbearers as your core, then Emissary+Carrion Conflux is still amazing for all the buffs he hands out. On that note, either commit to multiple Shieldbearers or take none. Their ability to gain Fast for discarding or using SS nearby is very underrated if you have lots of them. I would basically say, bring 2 or 3 of them + the Emissary or leave all of them out. I rate Vincent very highly, he's really infuriating to deal with for your opponent if you position him well (with his upgrade this is almost every game) and his basic attack comes with 3 really useful triggers. There's a lot of people saying there's little need to play him with Reva though, since they do similar tasks - pressuring at range. I find space from him in some Reva crews - usually ones where the board lets him abuse his From The Shadows and free push mechanics. Your preferences matter a lot, of course, but I personally reckon he's the tits. Admittedly at 35ss you're really stretched for SS, so he might not make the cut all the time. But he's definitely a good model to at least consider and to practice with. I found this list relatively straightforward to work with for 35ss: Reva with Decaying Aura, Beyond Death. Carrion Emissary with Carrion Conflux Rotten Belle Rotten Belle Shieldbearer Shieldbearer This list was also a lot of fun - though it is a bit risky and highly dependent on terrain: Reva with Litany of the Fallen, Decaying Aura, Guises of Death. Vincent with MLH+DWD Bete Noire Friekorps Trapper Crooligan

Aesthetics are always subjective I suppose. Personally I think his model is fine; not the best Wyrd has done but hardly the worst - put him next to Night Terrors and he looks terrific in my books. You may feel the opposite and that's ok too. I would say that there's heaps of conversion opportunity with the model if you're dissatisfied with him visually - but rulewise he's as solid as far as 6ss models go.

Were I to hire him and buy MLH, I would be so inclined, in fact. There's definitely merit to considering buying it on Archie if you've decided to hire him as it does give him quite a lot, though the decision whether or not to actually hire him in the first place at 13ss + upgrades is a different consideration entirely.

Maybe the stars just aligned for me, I'm not sure. He just felt really powerful at it. The easyish access to hitting Severe with that Aura made it tough to deny him ripping it off enemies, while his high mobility with that (0) 6" place for 2 Vitality let him fly in, Ply and place out to a safe place twice in the same game.

Oh, you're right he's still 9ss. I was told that he was going to see a price decrease with the rest but obviously I have been deceived :/. Hayreddin is still a god for 6ss. Tonight he made Ply for Information look like a joke.

Tonight I tried MLH on Archie see what happens... and it's actually not too bad. Turns out Min 4 with effectively better than Disguised for a turn is amazing. His prohibitive cost means it's unlikely you can afford him and two other must-take-MLH models anyway. I'm undecided in it's true value but I'm glad to have given it a spin at least.

I've been overall very happy with the changes. Shikome should probably have stayed 8ss but I'm not exactly complaining I've found a spot for Hayreddin in many lists now. Even though he still suffers the same amount of lack of synergy and in some cases even anti-synergy as he always has, at 6ss he's a much more reasonable pick for a flanker or dedicated scheme hunter. His mobility and damage make him more than a match for any Scheme Runner (or in fact for most model of comparative points cost) and that Min 4 shotgun (if you don't need the blasts) is painful for even the toughest of models out there. The change from 7ss to 6ss was massive for this guy. Also: stand near Mortimer (who's also looking much nicer at 8ss) Turn 1 when he sheds his spleen for the free point of Vitality and then fly off as a solo operative for the rest of the game.

If you're ever unsure, there's no reason you can't hire both Necropunk(s) AND Crooligan(s). They go about Scheming in very different ways but they're both capable and expendable in equal measure. 9ss is hardly breaking the bank. Molly-wise, I played her rounds 4 and 5 in a recent tournament; a narrow 5-4 win on Spirits and a 7-7 draw on Horrors respectively. It was definitely useful trying both options out on the same day and comparing results. With Spirits I pressured the enemy master (Asami) quite early, ate her hand and most of her wounds, and then finished her off and swamped the board by turn 3. With Horrors I only summoned twice so I focused more on attacking and debuffings to help my hired models do work, before running Molly away so she didn't give up VP. I still reckon the Horror summoning pool and playstyle is a bit easier to get the hang of, but I also think that with Spirits, once you know what you're doing, have more mobility and raw damage. It feels like Spirits get progressively better as you become more proficient with Molly, like they have a much higher skill ceiling. I will also add that I've found Back On The Job to be every bit as strong as I had hoped and it will be stapled permanently to Molly for me. The knowledge of which Schemes your opponent has taken gives you a huge edge. The active is also surprisingly useful; especially since you already know exactly which of your opponent's Scheme Markers actually matter since they're already revealed. Now Molly has a simple way to remove one at decent range without even needing to flip a card, plus you get to draw a card. Yes, Master AP to remove a Scheme Marker isn't very efficient, and it's not really what you want to do, but if it denies the opponent a VP it's definitely worth it so it's a great Action to add to her toolkit in my opinion.

Eh, it's ok on the Emissary. I really, really love generic Carrion Conflux since it makes Belles, Nurses, Hanged etc disgusting. For me MLH is close to auto take on any of: Vincent, Phillip, Datsue Ba, Toshiro, Mortimer (if with Corpse Bloat+Nico) - to the point where I'd take it with them 100% if they don't already have 2 upgrades. For me it's also a very strong pick on Anna, Rogue Necromancy (similar to Archie in the sense you don't actually care about double (0) but the protection is still amazing for him and he's much cheaper and more accurate than Archie) and Yin - to the point where I'd take it on them 100% if I have a spare SS I'm not sure what to do with after a full 7 cache.

It's not a bad idea, actually. Seems really cute on Close Deployment or possible Flank. I think the biggest drawback would be that MLH is Rare 2 and oftens shows up twice in my lists and I'm not sure if Archie's playstyle always deserves one of those copies. He doesn't have great (0)s compared with other models that may want to hold MLH. Sure, you can try Leap twice, but you still need to flip or cheat two 8+ cards to jump 3" (admittedly about 5" after abusing the placement mechanic) so it seems a little lacklustre. It might well be worth it if you're running an elite killy crew.

Very well surmised. Kaeris has been knocked down several notches with recent releases and she wasn't in a great place to start with anyway. The biggest niche she has (which is still a small niche, make no mistake) of using Wings of Fire with cheap models for mass delivery of Scheme Markers. To be fair, this is actually slightly more viable now that Colette has also been gradually weakened to the point of being awful but it's still a tiny niche. Outside of that Kaeris is outshone by Sandeep alone almost categorically let alone the other 5 masters she must compete with. Flaming Halo and Immolation are interestingly designed but you always have to pick damage or burning/utility, and usually be underwhelmed with whatever choice you make (think about the filth that other masters bring - compare the utility on her attacks to Collodi). I wonder if she would be better served by a single simple attack Action that did a few points of damage, added Burning +1, and then had some triggers to exploit or spread further Burning. I haven't used her new Limited upgrade enough yet to really know if it really makes her a force to be reckoned with, again it feels like she is forced to use multiple actions achieving what other masters can do in only 1 action, or even in someone else's action if we're still talking about Sandeep. I also think you're right that it's not just her but also her 'thematic models' that generally are a bit lacklustre but I don't think Fire Gamin are true of that label. In fact I don't think Fire Gamin 'struggle' as you put it at all. Their damage is exceptionally good for their price of 4ss. They don't share Kaeris' issues - in fact if she was more like Fire Gamin she'd be more well received - in the sense that if her attacks or abilities offered regular damage and Burning/utility at the same time, rather than one or the other. Again, my point about having to always choose between Flaming Halo and Immolation comes to mind. Just my observations. I think you're spot on with so many of your notes.

I agree - bring Decaying Aura... somewhere. It's just really good against them since their main ways to survive are SS and healing. It feels expensive on Izamu at 12ss just for one attack but it could work. I think Bette Noire is a decent carrier as she has a nice big DF stat that might even make them miss her once in a while and she keeps coming back. Seamus and Reva are good carriers for it too. I've had good success with Nicodem too. I focused on slowing them down with constant 'Undress' pressure from Belles and using Doxy pushes to keep away from the important stuff, while throwing a few Mindless Zombies in their way to keep them tied down. I put most of my good cards elsewhere, getting board presence and achieving Schemes while I try tie them down. If you see a chance to go after them you can summon in a decent attacking model like a Kentauroi or Shikome and just go nuts. Whatever master you bring attack their hand, and force as many simple duels (Terrifying or Manipulative are decent) as you can. If they bring their new Burying upgrade it requires 2 discards already so if you can make them discard cards that can really adds up fast.

Interesting, @Argentbadger, you've given me much food for thought. I appreciate the detail you've gone into - cheers for that! My core build was very similar to yours - I used to always take those same 3 upgrades on Molly, Izamu, Datsue Ba, Graveyard Spirit, often an Onryo and either a Belle or Doxy - so maybe I was doing something right with my spirit builds after all. I frequently played Sybelle but I don't think I'd bother with her again (unless Assassinate is in the pool - she's decent at saving Molly and passable at killing with her upgrade). Anna seems more useful overall, she's a star. Do you ever hire Philip and the Nanny? In my early builds I always found room for him, but more recently I've been feeling, for both Horror and Spirit, that Take Back The Night + Molly's cycling triggers are enough to get by with, and saving 8+ss for damage/threat models seems good. I won't lie. I'm a little bit inspired to bring out Forgotten Path Molly a few more times to see how I go again. I just wish I could turn Kentauroi into Spirits :L

That's true. I suppose if they're throwing big attacks at him then reducing each attack by 2 damage might even be worth it putting 1 damage on the spirit per hit. Probably not worth it most of the time, you're right.

Graveyard Spirit*. The Grave Spirit is that dark brooding entity from another dimension that any self respecting Ressurectionist (read:Seamus) worships! The Graveyard Spirit, is distinct. I think it's just some small shred of necromantic essence that lingers around graveyards? But, yeah that can work. Graveyard Spirit model is super solid. I've heard and seen Archie being hired mostly with Molly and Nicodem, and Graveyard Spirit fits in well enough in such crews.

I think Corpse Armour can be ok on him. It is more expensive at 1ss but if you just use your (0) to cycle through the other two upgrades you're quickly glad that you have permanent +1 Armour. I don't always take it though. I always go for Squid because it doesn't need an 8+ card just to work like his Hulking Leap. Squid's nice because when discarded he gains Focus +1 for free so it instantly makes his ranged attack better. Most of the time it's Armour + Squid, trading Squid for Leap once I'm in combat. Sometimes I take Leap + Squid just because I cannot spare another SS.

So, I would either go elite or go Minion heavy with an Emissary for his buffs but probably not both: 1) 8ss - Molly* + Forgotten Life + Take Back The Night + Back On The Job, +4ss to Cache 10ss - Rogue Necromancy 10ss - Rogue Necromancy 9ss - Vincent St Clair + Deal with Death 5ss - Rotten Belle 5ss - Rotten Belle 3ss - Graveyard Spirit (still good here just to hug the Rogue Necromancies from behind) 2) 5ss - Molly* + Forgotten Life + Take Back The Night + Back On The Job, +1ss to Cache 10ss - Carrion Emissary + Carrion Conflux 10ss - Rogue Necromancy 4ss - Guild Autopsy 4ss - Guild Autopsy 4ss - Guild Autopsy 5ss - Rotten Belle 5ss - Rotten Belle 3ss - Graveyard Spirit * For best results replace Molly with Nicodem lol

If you decided you really wanted to do shooty Molly lists, I think a core of Rotten Belles, Graveyard Spirit and Guild Autopsies for that hand draining, Reactivating goodness that Nikodemus suggests is the way to go. Back it up with Rogue Necromancy(s) since Terrifying 13 is amazing when your opponent doesn't have a control hand left. The Emissary is great for Guild Autopsies, and even more so for Rotten Belles, but it feels very expensive for Molly (since she doesn't really get much out of anything it does compared to other masters - usually 10ss for Molly is better spent elsewhere IMO) and it can also get hurt by Black Blood quite easily. I would probably avoid it unless you're hiring 6+ Minions or running this shooty list with another master such as Nicodem. I've been pleasantly surprised with Vincent St Clair's capabilities recently so I think any shooting list should at least consider him. His front-of-card Corpse ability gives you a lot of value from the Corpses that would otherwise sit around unused (Molly really doesn't use Corpses she just provides them). As long as you litter the ground with the Corpses he becomes a pretty nice machine gun.

It's very interesting to read about the very different experience you've had with Spirit Molly. I've almost always found my summoned Spirits folding like wet paper to attacks (unless they catch 3+ models in the 3" pulse) and hitting like pool noodles without Adversary - I permanently lack good cards to support their attacks (Molly is greedy asf) so the from Adversary is invaluable for me. My observations/opinions on the three main points you mentioned for Forgotten Path's strengths: Incorporeal - I absolutely agree with you here. I've always seen Incorporeal as primarily a movement buff with minor defensive bonuses. This for me is the best advantage hands down, especially since my meta is teeming with boards featuring multi roomed enormous buildings, swamps and narrow alley ways. Hanged - I partially agree with you here. Molly doesn't have options to boost her casting like Kirai or Nico so you require strict 13s to have access to them (which isn't impossible to do but relying on only 13s isn't great either). If you have a great hand, they can be nice. In my experiences I haven't found them tough or card intensive for opponents to remove at all. They have enormous targets on their heads, Molly has no way to heal them and they rarely come in on more than a couple wounds unless your opponent enjoys bunching together against Molly. Izamu - I absolutely agree with you here. He's decent as far as a large Black Blood courier goes. I especially liked backing him up with Graveyard Spirit when anti armour was missing in the opponent's crew. He can be a little slow, so I often had Datsue Ba using her (0) to give him extra Walks. He's a great take but that's because he's kind of our only take lol. Spirits just don't have any other good choices for beaters, and Molly will always need one to take the heat off her. I'm not sure if our difference in what works and what doesn't is to do with playstyle or meta. Could you post a few sample lists?

I think if you put a Peacekeeper in front of most masters they have trouble dealing with it. But if you hide an Austringer behind an enormous wall, Seamus is your bane, whereas Reva needs specific conditions be met before she can get to it. Reva's an easier master to pilot than Seamus. An activation in which she uses Ethereal Reaping 3 times is very often the best activation she can have. She's probably one of the easiest masters to use even across all factions. Seamus' pistol will never compete with 3x Ethereal Reaping with or without Focus. But he has many other applications if the player actually looks at his other Actions and Abilities. I value his incredible mobility more than anything else, his WP/Horror duel tricks as a strong second and thirdly his Flintlock for opportunistic attacks. I rarely have more than 1 Belle in my list when I play Seamus and his Flintlock is usually a once per game thing for me anyway.

Could I ask in what ways you believe they share a role? Could I ask how often you've played Seamus and how often you've played Reva?

Reva has few must-haves since she isn't reliant directly on Condition synergy or keyword synergy (which is great since pretty much every other master is). That said there are a a lot of great choices to consider. First, the two biggies: Yin and the Emissary. Despite getting middling results whenever I've hired Yin with Reva, I've basically only ever heard good things of including Yin from other people. The (0) is great at securing free hits with Reva's attacks. The Emissary is very popular for many reasons. It's solid with almost all of our masters and extremely good with a few. Although it's a big investment in SS and money, it sees a decent amount of play with Seamus is also very nasty with Nicodem so it's not only an investment in Reva; it's an investment into Ressurectionists as a whole. I really like a Nurse with Reva (and Seamus). Specifically for Reva, their trigger operates similar to Yin's debuff to neuter a target's defense so that Reva can unload on them, in addition to all the usual dirty tricks their other triggers provide. They can partner very nicely with the Shieldbearers that Reva frequently brings - even the lowest of cards are all valuable to a Nurse+Shieldbearer combo - transforming them into Armour +3 walls (a doesn't really matter to Shieldbearers most of the time), Wk7 scheme runners with easy access to 'free' Fast, or even unavoidable damage dealers with multiple - even a hand of only 1, 2and 3 converts to minimum 6 damage that can't be dodged with their triggers. I would also back the support for Bete Noire. She's another model that sees a lot of love from Nicodem+Seamus players so she won't go to waste in your model pool. The Guises play is great, but even the simple turn by turn 8" Corpse Candle production that Reva generates (which makes Bete impossible to get rid of and super hard to hide from) is good.

I recommend Nicodem wholeheartedly. Not only does Molly really, really want Nico's Punk Zombies, but some Molly builds (all Undead ones) excel with Mortimer's Fresh Meat. Nicodem will find Philip and the Nanny essential to almost every crew and will often find value in 1 or 2 hired Crooligans. Even though they're both summoners, they have very distinct methods of achieving their summoning and very distinct objectives - Nicodem passively summons and buffs Undead while micro managing and abusing Corpses. Molly actively summons point blank into enemies, while debuffing them and putting Black Blood everywhere. So, I don't think they fulfill the same niche in your master pool. They pair exceptionally well in my opinion.

In this player's opinion, the biggest difference between Spirit Molly and Horror Molly is quite simply that only one has access to Punk Zombies. They have Hard to Kill, and an inbuilt to their attacks, which are very, VERY good for a simple 'point-and-click' summoned model that come with Black Blood and that you don't really want to think too much about. The game is already complex enough so most people prefer to opt for the easier, simpler option that Horror Molly presents, myself included: horde 11+ cards to summon Punk Zombies and use a mix of her other abilities to play aggressively. They only show up when you're Horror Molly, which is an enormous plus to taking her. It doesn't help that our newly released Kentauroi are Horrors and that our new Lampads aren't Minions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nonetheless, if you're keen to have a crack with Spirits, you do have 'decent' summon options that become 'good' if you take the time to provide them with some set up. Spirit Molly has a much higher learning curve so don't be offput if you are not as successful with them as you are with Horror. The first thing you must manage is Adversary. This will make your summons' attacks more accurate and less card intensive, and in the case of Shikome or Goryo, translates to more raw damage as well. Without effective Adversary application you're categorically weaker than Horror Molly. Usually this pseudo reliance on Adversary makes Datsue Ba a good option and Onryo close to a must. They're cheap with a 9cost, and very flexible as they can ignore armour, occasionally heal Molly, and apply Adversary or Poison. Don't forget the (0) cost upgrade for them - that thing transform 2 or 3 of them into big hitters for a turn. If you manage to bring them in on 3+ Wounds, their Incorporeal should make them tough enough to survive 1 non-Ca hit. They're almost as painful to remove as Punk Zombies. Automatic Black Blood and Adversary when hurt, and possibly Slow when they die... Ouch. If you already have Poison on a critical target, Shikome become decent missiles. Not only can Molly give them a (1) Charge in her own activation with her (0), but she can also Accomplice to let one Charge after she's finished if you have other needs for her (0). Their triggers keeps them a constant threat to almost anything in the game. Of course, if the target has both Poison AND Adversary, as everyone knows, they become extremely dangerous. If you can live the dream and set up both Conditions on something you want dead, they will get the job done. A word of caution - be careful if there are models nearby with large engagement ranges. A 3" reach disables your ability to make a (1) Charge since you have to summon within at least 3" of an enemy. Goryo are a little easier to work with as they can (1) Charge vs anything that has Adversary without needing to bother with Poison like Shikome do. If something has Adversary, you need to consider which one would be better suited to attacking it - Goryo automatically ignore Armour but they can't get ++ to damage like a Shikome can. They can sometimes be fantastic tarpits since they have huge bases to catch lots of models when they show up. Remember their ranges - 1" Black Blood, 2" Melee reach and the 3" TN-15 duel pulse that Molly forces. With that big base these all cover enormous amounts of the board. They can also hurt themselves with a (1) to summon a Seishin, which instantly applies Black Blood to nearby models, again, in either their own or Molly's activation. One game I remember late into turn 1 summoning 1 into a Shenlong, Yin, Yu and Peasant blob. Thanks to that stupidly big 50mm base it had done 12 damage by the time the turn ended. Hope this helps. PS You might ask yourself when you would take Spirits instead of Horrors, other than setting yourself a challenge, of course. I usually turn to Spirits if I suspect terrain will bog down my big Horrors too much and/or if I suspect lots of Armour showing up. Almost every Spirit has a way to swiftly get through or around terrain and also a way to ignore Armour, something which is very absent in the Horror line up.