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The Governor-General

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The Governor-General last won the day on October 29 2017

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  1. Honestly, a Hoffman list without upgraded harness is probably decent provided you're lazy about how you drive it. 'Dita can shoot past the armor, and if you screw up your power loops, the constructs are pretty easy to hit.
  2. You can always do the Emissary trick with Howard Langston. You bury Langston (either with the Emissary obeyed by Abuela, or a Death Marshal), and now the Emissary can use Howard's Executioner Claws attack. Put Targetting Systems on the Emissary, and now his Executioner Claw Attacks have auto Decapitate trigger. A nasty combo can be to have Abuela obey the Emissary (who should have Targetting Systems) to bury Langston. Then the Emissary charges someone, ditches the modification to murderize something, then ends activation, letting out Langston in range to Nimble and Flurry. Its super nasty.
  3. I like Master Queeg for her. He can give her some extra movement with his whip, and he can hold the Promises upgrade which is super sweet for Justice.
  4. A bit on the expensive side, but Aionus. Moving markers can be as good as removing them, and even if you absolutely need them gone, he can move them close enough for a Peacekeeper/arachnid swarm/whatever to pulse them away. His basic attack can also pulse away enemy markers.
  5. Master Queeg with Promises will help all of those beaters with upgrades quite a bit. I might swap out a few of those LLC for DttG as well, although either is good. A Death Marshal might not be totally stupid against Sandeep, since he's hard to pin down. Boxing him gets you a point for EtL, and if you give Ashwood Coffin to Lady J, she can attack him without needing to worry about anything. Not to mention, he can't summon. I can't sing the praises of Ashwood Coffin enough, it just solves so many problems. I'm also not a fan of the Judge. I'd prefer the Jury, since she can heal, give out Fees, card draw, Slow... not to mention really cool mask triggers for everyone. I think you'll also want the Scales of Justice for card draw, too.
  6. Does it have any play in Ours, given its survivability and high cost? Literally just keeping it in the backfield, and by the time the opponent can get to it, it's reduction is too high?
  7. What about the Wild Boars for McTavish? Leaves you one beast slot for a Scorpius!
  8. I totally agree with this. I absolutely agree that the threat of discarding is more effective against a summoner, for sure, because they need very specific cards to function. However, I would never build an engine to actually do it, except opportunistically. I think in terms of actually causing discards, it may be more effective against a combat master (or beater hench/enforcer) who tends to activate later in the turn with fewer cards, but agree that the threat itself is less crucial, since beaters don't always need high cards to function. It's a case of the threat being more effective against a summoner, but more resource intensive to actually apply that threat, versus being less threatening against a combat character, but easier and more reasonable to apply.
  9. So you agree that discarding 2 cards isn't enough to stop a summoner, but wouldn't go so far as to dedicate the resources necessary to make them lose all 6... So 4 cards? Two AP from an Austringer, and presumably the Jury in range for insurance? That's 14 stones and two activations in the backfield doing nothing except making sure that the summoner's hand is down to his two highest crows. Honestly, you aren't really doing damage to that summoner until you take the last two cards. Sure, the rest of his models won't be able to cheat, and any discard mechanic will contribute to degrading his crew's ability to achieve goals, but the ability to summon is the last thing he'll be willing to give up, and as long as he has control over what cards to lose, the cards he needs to summon will be the last cards he ditches. I don't think it's efficient to task a henchman and one of the best minions in the game with ALMOST, but not quite, neutering a summoner. Both of those models have plenty else they can do. I might try it if I noticed that the summoner had four or fewer cards in their hand before activating their summoner, and I happened to have the Jury in range of the Austringer, but that's about it. Opportunistic attack with the right set up, but I'm not building a counter summoning engine out of 14 stones, especially when, as constituted, it's ineffective to the stated goal of stopping the summoning unless you add another Austringer for a total of 20 stones.
  10. So, you propose putting in maximum resources and AP into forcing a summoner to ditch 6 cards?
  11. I guess that's my point, though. If you force a summoner to ditch cards, he's just going to ditch the ones he doesn't need to summon. The only way to really hamper them, is to force them to ditch the whole hand. If you only use one AP, they'll ditch their 5 or 6 of tomes... but the Jack and King of Crows are staying unless you dedicate more to that effort. Sure, those lower cards might be useful for other things, but you haven't stopped the summoner from summoning. If the whole point of using the Austringer/Jury combo is that it's good against summoners, then you have to do it early in the turn (before they can summon), when they have more cards in hand, and since they get to choose what to discard, you have to do it until the hand is gone, otherwise they will keep the cards they need to summon at the expense of everything else. Honestly, I think it might even be the least viable in a summoner matchup, unless your plan is to dedicate 3 AP (and potentially cards for masks) to ditch their whole hand. I think the better matchup for Austringer/Jury is actually vs. a dedicated combat master. Someone who is likely to activate later in a turn, who maybe has a smaller hand before their activation. If Mei Fing or Ironsides are going to be the last model to activate in a turn, and they have a hand of two high cards left, sending a Raptor at some Df4 mook to make them ditch their best cards right before they get stuck in can be devastating. That's maximum effect for minimum effort. Another situation is actually against our own Sonnia, or Lady J, who often have to discard cards for necessary effects, and forcing Sonnia to discard below her ability to use Confiscated Lore can be really damaging for her.
  12. That's rough. Queeg is sort of clutch for that list, not only for Promises, but because he's really your only hope once your Riflemen are engaged. As you noted, the engaging models don't even have to be particularly effective in combat (Steam Arachnids) to completely shut down the Riflemen for the remainder of the game. Being able to whip enemies out of engagement, and then Companion into the Rifleman to shoot them is really your only defense. An Executioner certainly brings a decent amount of melee power, but he's sort of working at cross purposes with the Riflemen since he wants to be engaged. Oh well, you did the best you could. Joss and Langston are difficult to kill under any circumstance.
  13. That's a lot of resources to ditch cards. 14 stones of models (plus whatever upgrades on Jury), and ditching two cards for masks on the attack (plus cheating whatever to hit, if you need to) in order to make my opponent discard his four worst cards... sure it can be good, but it's hardly a NPE. It's only a NPE in the sense that it deprives my opponent of the ability to make choices. That said, spending an Austringer activation ditching cards instead of delivering orders, or killing scheme runners isn't always ideal, and keeping a henchman in babysitting aura range certainly limits the usefulness of that model. Honestly, the only way I think that's viable is with two Austringers, because then you can more or less guarantee ditching their whole hand... but then that's 20+ stones dedicated to a discarding engine... that requires you to ditch at least three cards to work. I thought it looked cool at first, too, but I'm less enthused now.
  14. Yeah, I think a list centered on Ryle will be better than a Dashel list, but you can't just throw Ryle into any old HH list and expect it to work. "Buying Ryle to get gud at HH" implies also getting models that synergize with him. Dashel+Queeg exist to boost the Rifelmen, whereas Ryle needs models that boost him specifically. That means you need Frank to boost his terrible Df4, you need means of healing, which usually means either or both of a Guardian and the Effigy. Since Frank's buff is so important to Ryle specifically... you really want Wade In on Frank, so the list writes itself. Ryle, Frank (Wade In), Guardian, Effigy. Now, I've won tournaments handily with that list (though Nekima and Archie weren't present...), but again, "just buying Ryle" isn't sufficient, as he needs his support pieces. Otherwise, he's a slow Df4 model. I actually think the best Guild list right now is Phiona, Frank, Jury and Effigy. Phiona can get up to Df9, Jury can heal and force willpower duels to trigger Phiona hitting, plus Fees, and both Frank and Phiona can do teleport/pushes to get support pieces out of a jam, plus everyone has 2" engagement. Again though, that implies a lot of additional purchases.
  15. Sure, but the man doesn't have Ryle. If you know they're bringing Nekima, or Archie, you're just kind of boned. Nekima and Archie are just sort of min/maxing the nature of Henchman Hardcore to begin with. Certainly, my HH list is Phiona, Frank, Jury and Effigy, but he doesn't have any of those models. Given that he has Dashel and Queeg, Riflemen is something that can work and synergizes, but is obviously weak vs any 3AP model that can clear 12" and attack in one activation. It turns out that in a small point format, putting as many stones into one model as possible is really strong. Who knew? If Guild ever got a 13 stone Henchman, that would become the obvious HH list, just kind of by default. Some dumb horse mounted model with Ch10, min3 plus crit strike, Arm 2, and Attack Expert or whatever. Any model with the ability to concentrate so much killing power with the speed to deliver it on turn one, along with the durability to survive a full turn in combat means that you're pretty much guaranteed to destroy your opponent's ability to score Turf War before they can hope to score Assassinate, or indeed, prevent a table wipe. That's sort of peak HH, and unsurprisingly, the factions that have access to those types of models (Neverborn, Ressers) tend to dominate that format precisely because of their existence. The best Guild can do is to try to be durable enough to survive a turn of that, married to enough killing to be able to knock it out in a turn. Certainly, if either of the Nekima/Archie lists loses the 13 stone henchmen, they've basically lost (unless they've already prevented Turf War before dying). We can do that by boosting Df so high it becomes almost unreachable (Phiona+Frank), or by having high armor and hoping they can't get through it (Ryle), and using our henchman's inherent killiness to gang up on the target and bring it down. Adding in some healing for support (Guardian, Effigy, Jury) is more or less the only way to hope to survive those lists.
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