Cleezy

The change to Archie was only a slight change and one that was needed (IMO) - he isn't quite doing everything with ease and it has also given him some utility that he didn't have previously (a route around serene countenance and highest authority). I think where some thoughts of Molly losing power or being a less viable choice is because of the move from Gaining Grounds Season 0 to Season 1, in GG0 her keyword excelled in strategies that favoured speed (plant explosives and even turf war for example). GG1 has less of a focus on this which potentially drops her down a notch but in most instances her keyword still has a lot of play. Take recover evidence for example, a lot dislike taking cheap models in this strategy because they become the evidence targets but a crooligan still have exceptional movement to continually stay out of reach if your positioning is good. A lot of the models in her crew can be reasonably durable also. Corrupted Ley Lines does hamper the traditional Forgotten list because you don't want to be placing, again there are options to take here but it means deviating from the traditional GGo lists. Molly herself is a very flexible leader and you can build her keyword well into all of the strategies pretty well IMO. Hope that helps

Welcome to Malifaux One thing that Wyrd have done to really help new players is the keyword system, every master has a keyword and models within that keyword are going to synergise in some way with others in that keyword. The nice thing is all the boxes are now marked up with the keywords so it is easier to see what models expand your collection. Pandora plays pretty keyword heavy however two of the boxes that support her keyword are not out yet (Juvenile Delinquents and the Lyssa), as Maniacal above has mentioned Teddy is a solid option and has synergy with baby Kade, Carver is just a good all round model as is the hooded rider. I would also say that Hinamatsu is a good buy as she is a very good versatile model. If you haven't already I suggest downloading the app, its free and has all of the models stat profiles included, lets you build crews and has a great search function. Hop that helps

If it is regards to the Explorers society for Kyle posted specifically in the thread that they had a lot of applications and were steadily working through them. Also IIRC Wyrd work Mon-Thur.

My opponent didn't have Amina this time, just two high tomes. Santi being df5 and the Gunsmith being sh6 meant they could ignore his armour and dictate the damage. Anyway, apologies, slightly derailed the chat discussing Santiago's frailties

Maybe your opponent is strongly denying your schemes and strat? Maybe you make a mistake or have some bad luck. There are variables that can account for such instances. Also it may be that the player has opted to go heavy handed early and is happy to concede a point or two in T2 and T3 knowing that they are playing a 5 turn game with an opportunity to catch up and overtake in the later turns. There a lot of people who say m3e that models survive longer in m3e or that damage output is less and that is why they are struggling to reach the later stages of the game, that is something that in the majority of my games, and the majority of games I see at the events I run that I do not see. Do I feel like m3e has more meaningful models? Yes, because people dont want activation filling rubbish to have activation control due to the introduction of pass tokens. As such are people generally picking models based on what they will do to impact the game? Definitely, tech picks are way more of a thing now to the point where I was in a discussion and the person said when he sees cheap minions of the table they have been selected for a purpose and removing them from the game is a route to victory to deny the opponent needed AP. Ultimately I do not feel that anything posted in this thread is going to change the viewpoint you have regarding game length, some are in agreement, some are not. Do I have games that take over 2hrs15? Yes, when I play at home or with friends and I am using something I am unfamiliar with, would I take that to an event? No, not unless I feel comfortable I can play that crew in a 5 turn game in the allotted time.

TFW is an excellent resource for our hobby and as such presumably has a good portion of the community actively listening, where this is potentially problematic is that it may give a platform to an issue that is the minority and is being projected as the majority especially if guests are on repeatedly. This issue was a common theme when m3e was fresh in the wild but at events in the UK particularly the play sped up for the majority quite quickly, of course there are some situations where a game runs slightly short but turn 3 isn't the norm here where as for the guest on the pod it is. Other high profile players in the US have also said that 5 turns is not the problem. A 3 turn game, the effort to then completely amend the rules to suit and ultimately change a game on what certainly seems to be an issue for the minority of players. What people have to also remember is that when playing at home or casually you can take your time and be longer (for a variety of reasons) but if you are looking at tournament play and to be competitive then the full game should be what is practiced for to the point that it is achieved.

The game I used Santiago in most recently was up against Ironsides and he got ruined by a gunsmith and the ignore armour trigger. It hurt that what was effectively a 10ss model died just as easily as a 6 or 7 haha. I think he could potentially sit behind the crew and offer support but idk, I still feel like there are better options for his cost.

There are a couple of good videos here if you want to check them out, these are from one section of our larger gaming group. The videos and games are played, recorded and edited to show off the game and keep rules etc. clear. Worth the watch (there are multiple games systems on this channel but a good handful of Malifaux videos) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1kSE9HTVVJf7SfoIovfaLw/videos As for reading the rulebook, honestly I would read it just to get that top level understanding of what is going on. Hope that helps

The Other Side is a fantastic game and it is such a shame that it has a minimal population. So many things plagued its release. I have the Cult and Abysinnia kick starters to get to eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later, that said a good amount of the models need some tlc as they are a little warped etc.

You have to make sure you kill them quicker It is the unfortunate downside of the family, but the damage output that crew can do is tremendous. Perdita should murder (hand permitting) any 5/6/7 wound df5 minion/enforcer. Franc can go toe to toe with most things and is one of the more durable models in the crew. Santiago cannot be trusted to stay alive long enough to be a big hitter, unless early turns he avoids the fight and then wades in after a few early kills. I am slowly working Melissa KORE into my lists as well, especially against anything that bunches up with the blast trigger. The reality is that a lot of the Guild crews can deliver damage, it is just the method you want to use.

In previous playtests you could cover other people under your NDA so that you can get games in and test, that person becomes your responsibility though. Unsure if the same applies here but could be worth asking.

The people who I know that have been accepted in got it via email

Might be easier to drop them an email through the website, I am not sue how often Neil frequents the forum.

A night terror may seem like a good choice because of the concealing aura but be wary of facing anything with a good blast/ricochet or repeat shot trigger. It is easy enough to engineer a one shot kill or big blast at which point they become something of a liability IMO. All dependent on your opponent of course. Edit - didn't realise how old this comment was, or that the thread was truly resurrected

Nellie's printing press, Necrotic machine, Goryo, Night terrors (ish) and Dead Doxies. The steam trunk is always notorious and the skulls on Abuela's hat, oh and the belt buckles on Santiago/guild steward.

Not a problem bud, form filled in, NDA attached and sent

@Kyle I sent through an NDA to the previous testing post (with a focus on Malifaux) a few days ago (just in case anything cropped up). Will that be considered for this or would you like me to sign up via the above link? Many thanks

If they are using those cards drawn to pass tests for the dispatcher then they are not being used elsewhere, this in my eyes is a positive as it takes resources to generate the card draw in the first place. If they have a good amount of models bunched up it isn't just a few for the dispatcher, its a few for a bunch of models, its the allocation of resources. It is by no means gospel because each game is different and has individual circumstances but it is an option, just like blasting is - why do I mention blasting? Because it is likely that there is a model to protect the dispatcher close by (for protected as you said) and it is likely that the model in question could well be a df 5 guard minion, easy for most decent models with blast access to have a straight flip and ensure the blast occurs. Just by using protected is eating another resource, eating into the card draw that should be bolstering something else. The two models you mention have average wounds for their cost along with the average df and wp, nothing else. They are reasonably squishy (for their cost).

Shockwaves/blasts are usually the easiest route. Also while protected is good it means there will be a model permanently with the dispatcher and not doing much else. The dispatcher is good and adds a resource that is highly coveted and very scarce in the Dashel crew. IMO Dashel is very well balanced and also very thematic. Guard minions are mostly wafer thin and very much have the throw away soldier theme down to a tee. VS is a strong master, in a strong faction but he definitely isn't underrated (and IMO not OP). His minions aren't broken, they are good for their cost. TBH I have never had any issue facing VS, he certainly isn't as difficult to deal with as other masters (in my experience).

My initial thoughts are that for the hanged to be good they want to capitalise from their movement tricks (on your heels mostly) that will likely take them out of the aura Toshiro gives out. Also Ashigaru are quite similar to shield bearers so IMO you will end up doubling down on very similar models or not get much out of Toshiro in way of summoning. It could have play in certain encounters and likely catch a few off guard but I do think some crews could hard counter it and make for a really bad time.

Urami is criminally underrated (which I don't mind) but I think of the summoners she is very balanced as she doesn't have an abundance of card draw and likes to stay within keyword, whisper negates it partially. In regards to her health you should be balancing this well, there are plenty of ways to top her up and keep her going though she doesn't actually have to stay alive once you have gotten a few turns of summoning done, obviously it depends how the game is going and how you are using summons but a lot of her models are a real PIA to put down and are hit that tasty ping damage when hit. @RisingPhoenix I wouldn't say the card draw in VS is hugely untested and the benefit out of it IMO comes massively down to the player and the hand they have (and what you need to achieve). It isn't massively reliable but can be factored in tactically to help. The card draw for VS could be a complete separate thread tbh as it can be very nuanced.

Some days it will go that way, I have had games with very little. I have had games where every possible draw did. @proofyeq I have done this when possible as its solid card cycling.

Dreamer - what is making him currently 'above the curve'? For any summoner it is resource management and Dreamer has (IMO) a mechanic that just shouldn't be anywhere near a summoner, yup Lucid Dreaming. Being able to whittle the deck down for the most meaningful turns reduces the pressure on resources. Your hand will be better, if/when you stone for cards it will be better, your flips will be better (more likely to hit moderate damage than min, more likely to force your opponent to cheat, more likely to hit the TN). Lucid dreaming gives the crew that efficiency to keep the summoning engine for Dreamer going and keeping his models away from the resource he wants. Now to Chompy - as you say a very solid 8ss model, he has an average defence so if you get through that terror you are already straining resources that dreamer wants. It isn't hard to pressure chompy and with a stat 6, focussed attack you will be on a straight that forces your opponents decision... stone for e neg? Take the straight damage? Stone for reduction. Yes he has options to heal, yes you can play around him to avoid as such. This leads to the dreamer himself, some nice defensive abilities (serene/incorp) - the prevalence of focus/+ flips can negate SC easily enough, pressure him to pass it off onto his daydreams, you are eating his resources (cards to pass off/models health plus their actual in game purpose). Want to get around SC, blasts, shockwaves, obeys. He doesn't have many wounds and every instance of damage is further pressure on him. Summoning is good, but it is made better by an ability that can be used in abundance by this crew. Sandeep - The issue with Sandeep is the sheer ability to draw cards and keep his engine fed. I have played games where my opponent has pretty much always had his 7 card hand and cycled it to be really good. So where do you attack? You attack where its in your favour, force them to be used - if they don't then are losing resources in models and therefore you force the cards for the summon. Sometimes solidly combatting a summoner is keeping the difference in models manageable. You kill the model(s) they wanted to score with that turn and you are delaying their points. Banasuva - Good totem, yes. A problem? No. Banasuva falls into a category that I call a bully victim. Average defence and a station that isn't master or henchman, so a stat 6 and above will hit this guy and be able to dictate their damage (using focus of course). For most capable beaters that means a mod and a min then he is gone. Sandeep himself, can be problematic but he is ultimately 10 wounds, df 5, there are ways to plink that shielded and at that point he is on a straight resource drain. I have had success b-lining him and taking him out. Again summoning is good but it is hugely bolstered by the keyword. Von Schtook - A win more summoning mechanic that you will play into if you take easy models (see bully victim idea above), but also you can use the summon mechanic to goad models. It is often going to be a loaded valedictorian and I actually think you will see a very common mistake of people launching her in then being stranded. Card draw in this crew can be crazy good or crazy minimal/to none-existent. It is an addition and usually cannot be relied upon. Albus is one of the few 'summoners' where I wouldn't bother pressuring him directly, but due to the unique way his summoning mechanic works the resource you attack is model count and while his models are so/so tanky they drop reasonably well if you build to suit. Somer - I actually think Somer has a much higher skill level than the above three to get him working. He is attrition game personified. In the hands of good players he can be devastating but I think very few will maximise his full potential purely because there is a lot going on. Breaking it down though what makes him so powerful? It is his crews abilities that bolster the summoning as the models he summons are generally poor BUT with the correct utilisation of the crews auras/abilities etc. they are powerful (hence IMO a higher skill level than the others). Bayou two card obviously helps as it can reduce the hand stress, likewise demise expendable. Weaknesses? Blasts/shockwaves/additional ping damage - anything where you are spreading the damage. Anything that forces the discard. That is my thoughts on the four 'above the curve' mentioned. All are strong because they have mechanics that maybe shouldn't be attributed to summoners? I will mention Kirai as she is one I have the most experience with but I also think she is the most balanced summoner, why? Because she makes you balance the most - health pool and in turn crew selection to mitigate that. Cards - she doesn't have the abundance of draw like the aforementioned (you want to use that adversary as best as you possibly can). Ikiryo - is brilliant (IMO much better than Banasuva). Dashel/Asami and Tara all can be discussed but I wanted to address the 'broken/above the curve' masters and how IMO it is surrounding abilities that makes their summoning seem too strong but how there are routes around them and keys to having success with them. Is summoning as a mechanic broken? No. Can it become very strong if crew abilities are utilised in the right way to mitigate the weaknesses of summoning? Yes.

I have the McMourning avatar, ideally looking to sell or trade for Colette. UK based but will ship worldwide.

When done right summoning can be really powerful and potentially oppressive, just like heavy damage dealing crews (remember the broken Shenlong cries? The first time you played a good Jack Daw player?) and just like control crews (these are generally harder to master IMO so we haven't quite seen them in their true oppressive nature - yet). Summoning has its counters just like most things, generally as a summoner there are components that keep the ball rolling. Key models that are integral to getting them to work at their maximum. Most summoners have a drawback and it is exploited these that is required to be successful against them, focus on figuring those out before suggesting the mechanic is broken. Is it strong? Yes. Does it put additional pressure on resources? Moe often that not. Also as pointed out elsewhere all of the summoners have negative effects given to their summons and are also limited to summons. Kirai gets hurt by hers plus they have slow, Dreamers come in buried so you need to force a failed WP duel to get them out, Asami has the flicker mechanic, Somer's come in insignificant unless you spend additional resources to get the trigger needed so one does not gain the summon upgrade, Dashel's gain slow, as well as needing a friendly/enemy scheme marker.