Aner-Dyfan

I base them up the same as all the other factions. 1 I know how to do that, and 2 the battlefield is the same for both sides. The hordes may be from the oceans of Malifaux, but they are fighting upon land driving the skinny creatures from the surface. I do admit it's not especially creative, but I'm actually using a very simple style for my schemes in The Other Side. Greyscale with minimal flashes of colour, so more complex basing wouldn't work anyway.

ECB have insane (ie totally broken) capacity as attacker in Supply Cache, but yeah against Abyssinia they are amazing. Engineers and Prototypes each count as assets, which means you'll end up with +1 or +2 Str against almost all of them. They also make taking Morphlings rather interesting as that shot can then come from so many fronts. I find they also help counter many titan killers, protecting horo. Not tried Doomseekers with them, worried about hurting my own with the area attacks. But the translocation ritual is of course really potent adding additional mobility which is always important.

It says that affected fireteams take an Sp Vs 12 duel or suffer a Str4 hit. Is this an opposed duel, a simple duel using fireteams speed, or simple duel using titans speed? I played it as simple duel using each of the affected fireteams speed value, but wanted to make sure.

Well it can copy envoys, having it use ECB actions is always good fun, and yeah there are some interesting shenanigans which can be played using it with the skulkers. Things like Regenerating Segments or Hatch are others which niche uses, something which the other adjuncts aren't really able to match. 1scrip for an extra action on a unit is always nice, sure it's no engineer, but I do consider those way too effective. Morphling will gain versatility in the future as well, being able to draw action from more units. The other thing is that GH are more of a reinforcement focus, this means they are in a much better position to expend their adjunct for damage reduction keeping the fireteam in play contesting objectives or holding engagements.

Tieing up a much more valuable unit for the duration of the game is a good use. But yes, seems very dull. One of the things I love about ToS is that there aren't such run of the mill units, everything has that niche. I'd like to propose making fire nova more potent but suicidal, but then Rhinos would become way too similar to breachlings. But that made me wonder how to keep them separate, and actually area damage melee attacks, with trigger for increased range of blast felt like it could work. This would still keep the unit varied, provide a negative (hitting friendlies) but still being able to hit multiple enemies (and generally fewer), and most importantly allows the defender to actually defend. If going this route the trigger blast range could be based on shaken tokens on the target, this keeps the theme of charge adding shaken, but also means aces may be placed on enemy to increase that attack potency instead of buffing defense of the rhino.

Summoned units can't play an objective on the turn they are summoned. However they will still contest and cause engagement preventing others from playing the objective too. I actually find summons ok balance wise. Sure they start weak, but it's another unit. More activations is still good, even if poor ones. Yeah a tweak might be needed, but I've not found them extreme unless synced with some other nasty shenanigans. 1. Yup Rhinos need looking at, no fire nova or no toughness imo. 2. Eels reinforcement use reduces damage by 1, and/or no toughness pick 3. relics shouldn't be versatile, that would make it considerably more potent than the Megaphone. Morale action and one per activation would actually make it worse than the megaphone though. In fact as is, the relics are quite a bit worse than the megaphone, apart from the frenzy, where it excels with shark tooth necklaces. As such I think the weakening could be done there, the necklaces only provide the +ve flip on melee actions or such. 5. I'm hoping GH will get an elite core of units, to counter this. We have the regenerating horde style, need a more elite core to help mitigate this. 6. A big section? Alpha, frenzy, siren, horo, eels. The only limiting thing I've found is not having the tokens that turn to call them back. But I consider that when buying the strategem cards, so a non-issue for me. 7. Agreed, factions should have speciality, but be able to have a little of each playstyle. This again remedied by more units, which won't be for a while 8. Considering Medal of Honor costs 2scrip and that gives +1tactics and the inspired trigger. I would still be happy to take engineers at 2scrip, at 1scrip it's a steal. Madmen I'm not so sure, it's certainly possible to play a strong game without them, so just increasing the cost wouldn't work so well here. Perhaps a -1 to all AV to fireteam it's in, slows the unit down and makes the madman a small liability while maintaining game flow. Siren is really powerful, as are the Frenzy, however I think this is because the rest of their forces are more expendable, which is why I feel the frenzy do still need to be able to heal a lot in a support role. Otherwise GH just can't replenish losses fast enough. Siren doesn't care, she's a one woman army. That said 1 easy to win Wp duel causing 2+ hits on a unit is crazy (1 entering the pool, then 1 when they activate) makes me feel they should only take the 1 hit on their own turn. That would require a core rule change however. Something I noticed is that a number of really potent units seem to have unopposed duels, Rhino fire nova, electrocutioners gigawatts, sirens pools. Honestly not too sure if this can really be addressed easily as fairly core rules. But it actually has made me consider how much of the effect is psychological, in that you are unable to defend against it. The way many games let you roll defense dice, even though it wouldn't make difference it it were the attacker. Yeah I know the examples are strong, but as you say the loss of agency makes it feel that much worse. Perhaps pulses affecting friendly forces as well? That would make them far more cautious in their use, much like area damage. Has it's pros and cons

I've not used them much currently just cause of how powerful they seem, and I enjoy competitive games. Eels too seem stupidly good value. In both cases I feel a fair amount of bite is removed if they do not take assets. They are still really strong in this scenario, but at the very least they have the initial 2 pens taken of them. This makes them much more vulnerable until they begin to stack tokens. Which yes they can do, but that means the tokens aren't being used elsewhere. Rhinos allowing assets but without firenova? I hadn't actually considered that, I actually quite like the idea. That means they become a very sticky unit becoming more like 5man fireteams, and also feels more in-keeping with the cinnamon ability.

2 options here, both deployment zones same as Seize Ground. They might need a little tweaking since I've not tried them out. The aim I was trying to do was improve conflict between all players instead of becoming 2 1v1 games. As such some of the VP allocation may need mixing up, eg allowing all the pitched assault scoring to be Per player.

Ok then so it seems like it's the first part which is the major thing then, I was really only considering it for the initial attack duel and not for the pen flips or defense duels, which could really snowball out of control if attacking twice a turn. I could probably do with improving my card draw when playing Cult as well. Any tips in this regard?

Ah made a mistake then when playing that game then, since placed them before. So yeah a mistake which cost me that game, but still makes me scared about ECB, since they are allowed to do exactly that!

I find cult are one of the easiest to get units into glory, hordes are easier, but they suffer from placement and losing a fireteam in the process. As such the lack of melee attacks portrait side does not concern me, and then the melee attack they do get is amazingly potent, being able to flip enemies from glory is so very good. Electrocutioners are arguably the best unit in the entire game when in glory. Rifle corp are really nice, but suffer from the hardest to flip to glory. In both cases, ECB can remove that power with a punch. Also ECB, like with all Cult, have amazing mobility with portals. Independent movement is so very useful allowing multiple angles of attack, or playing the objective. And it's the objective which wins the game. You can easily operate on 3 objective markers an activation, this can turn the tide of a game instantly. Also they can leave 1 fireteam in an engagement (tieing the enemy up) and the others don't care in terms of the objective, whereas almost all other units can't move on unless take a hit or discard a tactics token. I find that ECB have a real fear associated with them, the +1Str per asset hurts Abyssinia loads (engineers and prototypes on many units) but also getting larger bonuses vs commanders (with potential accurate trigger) and titans, and even if not the Str4 is good anyway. In addition to that, positioning them as if to setup Knocking Down the Pillars of Reality can terrify people. Random forces get thrown into melee with them or a truly excessive amount of force is used to shut them down, or you just force movement. All can be used to your advantage (clearing portals, preventing actions or preventing reinforcement tokens via Inspired Effort) In terms of KDtPoR dealing huge amounts of damage? No, it won't do that, unless your opponent lets you, at which point they deserve it. Worth 10script? Absolutely. One of the few ranged units of Cult, and has one of the best ranged attacks. It's so good in fact that they are the only squad I really consider when taking hordes with cult envoy (Rhinos too if I could) Is ToS balanced? Unfortunately not. There are some really broken combos and nasty builds out there. Horror-milling is not one of them imo, that's just how you use them. However Rhinos or Eels with toughness, those are just disgustingly powerful units. As an aside, ECB are one of the better units for killing toughness Rhinos, as have a Str5 hit on them. Edit: Seconded for the Supply Cache, not actually faced them on such (thankfully). But I have had enemy Infiltrators remove 2markers turn 1 in a game I was playing and that cost me the game, ECB are infinitely worse since doesn't require the tokens close together and yeah, they can escape unharmed if you are the attacker.

The first ability allows good card recycling and the second allows to recover from death. But to me this feels a rather weak asset. Don't get me wrong getting a 11+masks and being able to recover it each activation is really good, but also requires cards in hand. And getting that initial card can take a while, or I'd rather use it in an important duel elsewhere. This seems to require a great amount of chance to pull off, and also makes the attack more predictable. The second part feels mostly pointless. This effect requires the asset to not be disabled or scrapped, so instantly you've lost 1+1 so in order to get most benefit you need to be hit for 3 (pen19), which most other assets would be able to defend from (2+1) so really it's use as a defensive tool is for defending against 4-hit attacks (pen24), when not within range of friendlies. Retaining glory is nice, but you lose the asset and so nice if you can get a free teleport, but at the same time he is left weakened. Some people swear by this asset, and I'd rather things like Hovering Portal, Arcane Tome or Corona of Flame. So do you have any tips or tricks which I am missing about this one? The difference is likely how I control Adeodatos and use portals.

So the hordes were spawning in full 3 fireteam squads? Hehh, wondered if that were the case, cause yeah that would make them very strong. Yes "Tide Caller" from hordes and "Flaming Breath" from Cult. Each are versatile allowing an action from them to be performed each activation, I couldn't remember the names.

Yes they can, it's a situational benefit, and mostly used on eggs to gain more reinforcement tokens. In fact they can eat a fireteam and not flip to glory if they really wanted. You can use Horo to put 2 shaken tokens on someone, allows them to flip easily. Arcane Tome, Corona of Flame and Hovering Portal can all help toward flipping to glory. For Horo assets though I try and take both the hordes and cult unique ones for them, that way they have more actions per activation. I've actually not had too much success with Endless Numbers while playing with hordes, coming back as a single fireteam felt very limiting for most of the units. Skulkers and eggs were my main uses for it due to them being able to spawn anywhere.

Translocation Ritual has amazing potential, one of it's awesome features is that it always works. No card flip required. And yes they can be used to save forces, but it also has some crazy shenanigans which can be used in combo with the hard hitting titans. You translocate Horo onto a portal marker, which you then use, then you chain activate into Horo, and considering the portal jump wasn't part of Horo's movement, you can rush order immediately to cover a deadly amount of distance (especially being able to walk over fireteams). Top that off which area damage and breachlings, you have a very versatile squad which can threaten on a number of fronts. ECB are really strong though, I always field Vs Kassa or Abyssinia. Kassa is bringing titans, which in general have have low def values, high armour, and many assets perfect for the ECB. Abyssinia are normally played more elite, so fewer forces. But get free assets with prototypes and often take many of their potent adjuncts, so it's not uncommon to have increased strength against the entire Abyssinia company! Independent movement is just great, and the threat of Knocking Down the Pillars of Reality is so strong. I've never had it work well, but that threat is there, and can force the enemy to respond in a predictable fashion. So yeah ideally I'd want both. But if picking one, I consider Doomseekers for army synergy, and ECB for more solo performance, which for my style of play means I go for Doomseekers more.

Raving madmen are really useful, and remember assets for your commanders! Whenever I run Horo, I like to accompany with another titan. I find that the enemy will focus on either Horomatangi or Goryshche but rarely able to counter both effectively. Also I really like Goryschche's asset which allows her to move 5" after using a portal, gives her a really nasty threat range when combined with extra portals. For the most part I find the portals are good for scheme running, Yarazi feel unneeded. Though I guess it would allow them to be used more aggressively. In general though I don't feel that the cult benefits a huge amount from taking hordes squads. Except perhaps taking barbed crawlers Vs hordes to dish out pinned tokens.

I'd like to play around with this, honestly don't mind if it's the kickstarter one, I didn't have time during the campaign to do playtesting so hadn't requested it. I want to try some mirror matches though and it's really annoying to do that via proxy models.

And it can't be cheated as not the result of an action of a fireteam. Since movement is not an action. Cheers. As for enemy who flips I'd run it next in initiative order.

So who does? Pen flips are performed by the 'opposing' player but they are essentially self inflicted, so does the acting player flip? If so does this mean that they can cheat fate and lower the flip? It says 'opposing player' and not 'other player' and since the game has rules for 3 or 4 players, I can't just see it being one of the others doing the flip. Though equally it feels odd flipping to damage my own forces, especially when drawn into a pool by a Siren or such.

Thanks, it was helpful. We will be playing 2 commander from now on, so many more options and resources for all the factions. Belle and Frenzy were picked as we'd not tried them before, but I feel I also hard countered the KE list. The goal was to use the scouts and dragoons to negate the hordes reinforcement with pinning t1. The whelks totally negated that, which again I picked as wanted to try them out instead of skulkers. I feel that a Kings Hand will be deployed most 2 commander games being able to shoot into combats and over fireteams seems really strong as can pick out the weak, and although later on, being able to flip allies to glory is really good. Especially as you say, RRC are amazingly good.

Excellent write-up! It is remarkably complex rule considering it's goal is to allow a unit to teleport from one to another. Thanks for this.

I've not got a list as such, I try and adjust things based on the operation and enemy commander picks. Also not got vast experience with this matchup yet. I always like mech infantry, and I do believe they can outshoot KE, though keep the titan behind the infantry as is remarkably easy to kill (and thus flip KE to glory). In most cases I try and take electricutioners too, their glory side is immense being able to move rapidly across the board to claim objectives or just pulse targets down. They also get 10vDf attack with a 3MV +1str Commanders and Titans I will always take max assets on them. Makes them tougher to kill, and per scrip, I feel they are worth so much. eg "Deflector shield", neither Belle or Edmonton really want to take a Str5 hit if used to target the commander (each a good source of accurate) which means the damage will fall onto the rest of the squads. From here you can reinforce injury, especially if Mehal. Or "Radio Transmitter" to add a suit to a duel maximising the effects of the fewer actions of Abys. Kassa with KE envoy is nice, can then use behind enemy lines with South Wales Borderers, a very resilient unit which can force engagement (often being able to spawn in melee range). Other alternatives I feel are much more likely to die before reinforcing to KE shooting. This will then force tactics use and/or card discards to eliminate. I've not considered the use of Bosotho for body blocking, however at 5 defence and armour I can't imagine they are going to block for long then allows KE to glory off them. If I took the second list I'd get rid of 1, add 2 engineers and 2 more points into commander assets.

Any more input into this? Just finished a KE vs GH 1 commander. I was GH but it felt like a total walkover Margaret, Dragoons, Grenadiers, 2 scouts Vs Frenzy, Speckled, Whelks, Eel, Karkinoi Played on Scavenge, with corner deployment. The karkinoi took a few choice hits t1 but the frenzy promptly healed that back up and the speckled crawlers were able to provide reinforcement to the whelks allowing them to survive the grenadiers (only just mind). The dragoons and grenadiers then got engaged, and belle with supporting summoned welsh attacked my back line of the frenzy. Scouts capped an objective and duplicated off an egg spawn. However by t3 the frenzy just wiped the welsh out leaving belle exposed, and the karkinoi finished up the dragoons. We called the game cause although KE was leading 4-0 VP I could easily cap all remaining objectives in 1 turn and hadn't even played "spawning moon" or "unchecked magic" to push my advantage further. We expected the GH to die a lot easier to shooting, they got injured yes, but finishing up the fireteams to flip to glory seem nigh impossible. There wasn't any cover either really around the central objectives, but the cost of discarding to shoot into engagements was more limiting. There were certainly misplays by KE which were more costly than the GH misplays,

Yes. So long as it's not the second unit you activated in a row as per usual.

When the card is in your hand you don't need to spend the 2tokens again for it. You buy from the stratagem deck and play from the hand. So this card costs 2tokens then 1 card per turn, and for the most part I feel that spending tactics for cards is a waste for Abyssinia. A lot of places for Abys to get cards to discard one for. Not all the prototypes are Unique, so some you can have copies of some. Great for getting more shots off and flipping to glory on Eureka! Also giving someone shock batons, or getting extra hits with them has a lot of potential for sniping adjuncts. At worst it's like Cult's "Fire from the Sky", Hordes "Thunderstorm" or KEs "Artillery Strike" they allow extra attacks outside of activation. "Overclocked" is a cheaper, more versatile albeit probably weaker than the aforementioned in terms of damage.