admiralvorkraft

Or public execution for that matter...

Phew, otherwise I'd have some apologizing to do :-)

I would just recommend "not the Viks" because I find them incredibly boring to play against. But that's just like, my opinion man.

I think large arachnids are still her best beater unit. Envy, performer... anyone that can get use out of G&D marker spam really. Heck, Aionus might even have a weird place.

If I were in a more active meta and could get games regularly; a fantasy Anyway, I'd love a fixed crew Yan Lo. Probably 10T but I don't know either faction very well so it would take some figuring out. He caught my eye shortly after I started the game and I've never shaken the feeling I could do something with him. Anyway, he counts for both factions then. Gremlins are filthy creatures that I'll have nothing to do with, but I do love Big Trouble in Little China. So, Wong. Neverborn? Lilith. I already like using Lady J and Misaki as hit-and-run skirmishers. Why not run the master that is actually designed for that? As for masters that don't interest me in factions that I play... Viks for Outcasts. Boring to win with, boring to lose with. Like Lady J/Misaki but even more one dimensional. Guild isn't a master. It's Frank, Peacekeeper, Monster Hunters, etc. The optimal killy list is just dull and I hate it. Give me guardsmen and Marshals and Lawyers and Journalists please. Arcanists? Probably Marcus just because I don't like beasts thematically. I'll be sticking with the Union for that faction (okay, but Colette counts as Union).

So I disagree, here's why. So in the breakout box on 25 is the only place I find the term "suffer" used in the game rules. There is does say that soulstones are spent to prevent suffering damage. However on Pg. 47 where it goes into greater detail the phrase is, "After determining how much damage a master or henchman would take but before applying that damage..." The miner's ability has it suffer two damage which may not be reduced. Since that means we can ignore the armor then according to the Damage and Wounds section on 46 we have a final damage of 2. At this point we have satisfied the game-state requirements of the first sentence in the ability, yes? So the damage has now been inflicted on the model. Now before we apply the damage we stone. If we stone away the damage then the damage is not applied (as per 47) and presumably the model is then still in play satisfying the last condition of the Mine Soulstone action. In the context of a trigger with the "after damaging" call out we know that the action would not work if damage wasn't dealt. We also know that it wouldn't work if it were a passive ability triggering off of the model taking damage. But "suffer" isn't a clearly defined game term in this context. Furthermore there are any number of actions in the game that specify, "may not be reduced or prevented." Lacking that clear phrasing I think it's safe to assume that the Soulstone Miner's action can function in full even with soulstone use. Lastly, if it works as you contend, then preventing even a single point of damage would mean the soulstone isn't generated because you then haven't applied 2 damage to the model despite inflicting 2 damage in the first place. That would seem to undermine comparisons to "after damaging" effects elsewhere in the game. I could be wrong of course. Clearly defined game terms are the top of my M3E wish list. Things like "inflict" and "suffer" need to be clearly defined and consistently used throughout the core book and cards.

The Soulstone Miner can mill stones - the steamfitter usually has an extra attack to throw at it which gets me two (positives to df, dmg prevention). Ramos may well stone for a tome turn one, and the miner can (2) dig a stone and then spend it to prevent damage. 4 stones on turn one gets me ahead of the game even if my opponent isn't spending them. Between the miner and Ramos I can keep up for a couple turns if I need to, and if my opponent isn't stoning then I probably come up even further ahead on the board.

The benefit is partially just getting soulstones turn 1 (when it's easy) but later in the game those stacks of evidence fuel a lot - Propaganda obviously, but also Nellie's aura, passing activations, etc. They tend to play Nellie quite far forward to maximize her offensive control and so the additional evidence does help keep her in the fight. As for evidence generation; you get one for activating, one from the Printing Press, and two from the Watcher's attacks. That's generally more than enough. You're right, I don't know that it's worth messing around with the Domador or Jury to generate more than that. Granted, I also don't think it's worth taking the three-beater build that seems to be so popular but maybe I'm just a contrarian.

4thstringer is right on the money. Nellie has so many options you need to break her down and see how it all works on the table.

I love Ryle, but I don't love the Nellie+3 beaters crew. Nellie is great because of her flexibility - she can debuff and disrupt the enemy crew, and enable your own. If she's passing out fast to three beaters every turn then you aren't going to see much success with her. Build your crews to score points, not just murder things. Force yourself to use her whole card until you get a feel for the whole range of what she can do. Her strength is in her flexibility, not just in her ability to bounce models through a meatgrinder.

Colette is great imo. Sure, Collodi is better but I think Collodi has been one of the strongest masters in the game for a good minute and got some serious buffing in Wave 5 for some reason. As I said in the other Colette thread, when you're building her crew you're not looking for the biggest, killiest models. You're building to give yourself options and score points. Toolbox minions like the Union Miners and Performers are bread and butter for her. The Slateridge Mauler probably fits in that category now that the price has gone down. You do have to build the crew for the table, for the schemes and strats, and then just don't worry about trying to table your opponent. Dance around them, refuse engagement, and score your points.

Don't forget that Mannequins have a 2" engagement range and built in slow on a Ca vs Wp. Between that and Armor +3 a couple of them can scoot each other around the board and hold up most crews for a couple turns. Performers also have that lovely reactivate they hand out when killed or sacrificed which is great when you can pass it to Colette/Cassandra/Carlos. Union Miners spit out schemes like it's going out of style, have impressive damage potential (again, in pairs) and are just an all around bargain for 5ss. Anything that costs more than 10ss base has to do its job unsupported for me to rate it. Much like with Lucius, my most successful Colette crews are the ones that build in the maximum number of options. Usually like 9 real models and a dove or two to start.

Scrap generation isn't really an issue now that the Steamfitter exists. They talk about it in a recent Schemes and Stones but it's just, turn one win initiative with Seize the Day and activate the Steamfitter, cycle in the card you won initiative with, dump two cards for your first scrap, weld metal plates to people, etc. My Ramos crew is 90% fixed ; Ramos - 7ss Seize the Day Arcane Reservoir Leviathan Power Core Envy Angelica Practiced Production December Acolyte Union Steamfitter Soulstone Miner Mobile Toolkit The last 5ss is either a Performer or the Arcane Effigy and Imbued Energies on Envy depending on Strats/Schemes/declared faction. The Firestarter with or without Bleeding Edge Tech can sometimes fit into one of the enforcer slots with a little bit of juggling.

My partner plays Nellie religiously and the df trigger to build evidence is a staple. Sidenote, I find it a weird criticism to say, "well sure that works, but only if you build for it," because like, yes, (0) Welcome to Malifaux. It's a game of gimmics much of the time. Sure it's a valid critique if I say, "this Gremlin crew draws the entire deck into hand," because yes, that's all it does. But hiring a watcher and spending its first activation generating evidence isn't much of an opportunity cost. Admittedly, being able to claim condition kills was significantly more useful in gg2017.

Now that Lucius' aura buffs them they're great with him, and one in your back field is a good counter-charge. We don't have great sources of Paralyze so it's my favorite solution to the ever-popular alpha. Sure you need a high card to force the first duel, but you only need to tie so... I don't run Nellie, but that does sound fun. *with Abuela they are a decent turn one taxi.

Lady J is probably the better box to pair with Nellie - you get a second beater in the Judge and most of my crews get a Death Marshal. Just make sure you get Lady J's new upgrades, at least Swordfighter is pretty much an auto-take.

Unfortunately you pay for it whether or not it's going to be useful :-P I like a performer to threaten paralyze, blasts from envy, slow from the acolyte, spiders to waste time... If there's something I can't threaten directly I usually have the tools to get around it.

Hey, if it works for you, it works. I didn't mean to get heated. It seems card intensive and less toolbox-y for my taste. But if you like it, then awesome.

Not too hard to stop if your opponent has a bury/paralyze and activations on you, which at 7 in the crew they probably should. Between Abuela and a Death Marshal or the Emissary you can get anybody up the board turn one no problem. I like Hopkins in the Emissary with Sonnia to rock forward and kill something bottom of 1. In order to get a full-on alpha strike to land though you need tempo control. Guild Guard and Hound spam could work, or just Nellie passing activations. Perdita with Fastest Draw can set up to alpha top of turn 2 with a reasonable expectation of winning initiative, but it's a definite gamble.

So you're investing 15+ stones in support of a model that is already 10+ stones and caps at 4 damage per AP. Here's my fundamental issue; if you build a crew around a single model then it's getting neutered by a decent player - buried/paralyzed/bogged down/killed outright depending on tech. And then what do you do? If I have multiple threats on the field then I'm forcing you to make choices and I can punish you no matter who you go for. Not much gets through the pit of spiders with enough ap left to do appreciable work and Angelica by herself can free up my models to respond. So I'm spending about nine points total on support models and making up the difference with stuff that can threaten models and/or score points, and I can be aggressive with the spiders rather than trying to keep them alive to scheme. Or that's my thought process anyway. If I wanted to alpha strike then there are other masters in faction that do it better (Marcus, Ironsides, etc.)

Joss is too slow to project threat and way too expensive to justify his existence as a counter-charger. After the turn one marker generation he just sits around holding BeT. Plus now that you don't need to kill the Toolkit for scrap Ramos will be flipping positives 3/4/5 for damage.

Joss is a waste now that the Steamfitter exists. And Langston has been a waste since always. Envy, a December's Acolyte, and Ramos himself deal plenty of damage. Unless Viks are doing the bury trick Ramos should have no problem blocking off any charge lanes with spiders. Seize the Day gives you good odds of winning initiative at which point you summon more spiders in b2b with Vik and burn her up. But that's list building advice as much as anything.

That doesn't address the problem that an attacking model will still resolve any on killing effects (triggers or abilities) before this ever takes effect. It also doesn't change the fact that it is an ability on the defending model and therefore resolved in the order that the model's controller chooses, ergo changing nothing. You're right that it would clarify intent, but a game - like any system of rules - can't be adjudicated based on intent. There are timing rules in place, therefor all models in the game must refer to those timing rules in every instance otherwise we're just playing really expensive make-believe.

Lucius handing them focused attacks is good enough reason I've found. Plus it's a damaging cast in Guild that targets willpower so it patches a lot of holes in the toolkit.

I've got a few things for sale. Buyer pays shipping and I'll pack boxes to your specifications with photographic evidence. NIB Day-Glow Vengeful Spirits (Kirai box) - $60 NIB Crossroads 7 - $40 (willing to split by request) NIB Alt Firestarter - $25 NOS Phillip and the Nanny - $12 (w/card) I'm also looking to trade for Yin/Anna Lovelace/Scion of the Void.