Whut

Cooper's Core Crew IMO is Cooper Runaways x3 Malisaurus Rex Artemis Ullr Hopeful Prospect Crypsis Corps This gives you 17 stones to work with

I don't value them as hires. They're not fast enough to make scheme plays and Crypsis do much better damage, unique utility, and have stealth. Although they can push enemy models, we already have Malisaurus bonus action and Artemis for that. However, I can definitely see them as replacements for Hopeful Prospects (which Cooper should ALWAYS be taking) if you either need the pushes to get/deny VP later in the game, or if you're already within stealth range of the enemy and value the Df6 to try to stay alive.

Yeeeeeap. Daeva gets Ride With Me'd up, activates with Fast, Mimic Rough Rider, 4 attacks (as long as one of the first 3 hit) at effective Stat 6 thanks to Latch on, 2/3/4 with Precise and Injured +1. For the rest of the turn if you RideWithMe it into base contact with an enemy you get another attack (at this point probably effective Stat 8-9). --- At the risk of going a little off topic, I'm interested... Taking a Rough Rider into Ivan is iffy. On the bright side: RideWithMe is amazing, Rifle's built in + flip accounts for concealment everywhere, Daeva can Mimic Hooves and get RideWithMe'd. Sometimes RR can pull out a Heal on a Tome. Pretty quick with Mv6 Unimpeded. Downside: Cost 8 with 7 Wounds, Df5, and no defensive tech is very fragile. The Field Kit heal is awesome, but requires a Tome (7+ Tome if you also need the Ride to succeed), and Ivan's crew comes with healing for Umbra already, but no healing that can affect RR. RR matches Umbra's low WP and will suffer if the opponent takes WP attacks into Ivan intentionally. They don't get Artifacts which is really what makes them happy to get into melee, so they're better staying away and shooting or aiding movement - But DUA already get fantastic ranged damage (granted, only 8-10" but with often double or triple plus flips), and Daeva get summoned next to enemy models - Mimic is only 6" range. Friendly Fire + Concealment kills RR shooting unless they Concentrate, whereas with Operatives they give ++. I don't expect Looted Supplies to activate much. And most importantly, you won't always be summoning Daeva and they won't always want to Trampling Hooves. They might want to Mimic Gibson's Shockwave, Secret Passage, a Spectre's attack, or an enemy to OnYourHeels. Tl;dr It's really the Fast+Precise (and to an extent large amounts of Injured + nearly everything targeting Df in Wastrel) that makes both Daeva and Rough Riders seem that good, not the Daeva and Rough Riders alone. All the individual pieces that Rough Riders can give Ivan in different combinations can be found elsewhere: Healing + Move/Push + Concealing Terrain Markers > Lamplighters (+ giving out plusses from Lit Lamps) Move/Push + Mv6 Unimpeded > Nocturne (+ giving out Distracted to allies or enemies) or Effigy (+ Healing) Mv6 Unimpeded + Scheming + Shooting + Card Draw > Austera and Twigge Move as a bonus action + Shooting + Card Draw > Operatives (+ Ungentlemanly Affairs & Arson) Place effects to take advantage of Daeva > Gibson (Bonus action, then push/move Daeva into the marker) or Winston Finnigan

Two possible ways - creating a scrap marker and leaving it there for all your models to draw cards from as they activate, or taking a Lamplighter for 8 stones to create a Lit Lamp on first turn, giving you a + flip to many of those duels. Unfortunately this is pretty expensive as you already get healing from Rough Riders and don't create many Terrain markers so the Lamplighter isn't doing much for you. --- I'm surprised no one has mentioned two great new options that McCabe has available to him: 1 - Daeva for 7+1 Stones. They're minions so they can get Artifacts giving them Fast and most importantly Precise, Mimic lets them copy better Melee attacks than are available to other minions. They're Sz2 so they benefit from Ride with me, eliminating their weakness of being Mv4. They have concealment permanently and give it to allies. Latch On helps all your attacks, and MadeToKill lets them attack a whole bunch more - every time they benefit from "Ride with Me", every time they Mimic Trampling Hooves and hit with it, every time they Mimic an enemy with the Mask Trigger, every time an enemy moves away and fails the Clingy. (Although once per activation) Things they can Mimic (Note, Stat 5) Include: Luna's Scrap Drop Desper's Expert Thief Sidir's Machine Gun Huckster's Secret Passage or False Claim Rider's Trampling Hooves Jessie's Archeological Dig Mikhail's Sword and Shockwave 2 - Beebe and Calypso for 12 Stones total. Beebe creates Scrap 4" away using any Tome once per turn, and he draws 2 weak Tomes (usually) when he activates. Calypso is Armor+2, 6 Health, 6 Df, and Beebe resummons it using any of your scrap markers every time it dies, giving McCabe a solid central Tank. Deep Discovery and Reconfigure gives you a use for crappy cards you draw. And they're effectively one model with 2 activations, pseudo-nimble, and a Stat 6 attack that ignores resistance triggers, has effectively 3 min damage, and also pings 1 damage and pushes every model within 3" on Tomes.

I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't write that. See, it's not even in the OP. I read the rules carefully. I'm a good noodle.

1) English Ivan can summon a model with a Living Shadow Upgrade. On this upgrade is the Split Ability. Can the model summoned take 2 irreducible damage before being placed during the summoning effect? Since the effect is before the move, you don't get the marker, but the 2 damage could be taken to heal it using Ivan's aura when it activates and trigger Chronicle effects. 2) Mr Mordrake has the Born of Shadow Ability and the Shade Step Action. When he uses Shade Step, can he: a) Be placed anywhere, since wherever he is placed he makes the area within (A)1 of himself Concealing Terrain, satisfying the condition of Shade Step b) Be placed within 1" of himself, since that area is considered to be Concealing Terrain until he is removed from the table Essentially, what this is asking is the order of operations between removing the placing model, checking that the condition of the place is met, and putting the placing model back on the table. I believe (A) is remove, place, check while (B) is check, remove, place. There is also the possibility (C) of remove, check, place. I think (A) is correct since I don't know how you would perform the check in (B) or (C) if the model is not in its final position to be able to check conditions.

In Memorandum isn't immediately, but you do have to choose the card at the time of declaring the trigger since that wording is in italics and is treated like a cost. Reconfigure is a good point. I expect playing against EVS to be very interesting sometimes - if you have a 13 on top of your discard, it'll sometimes be worth it to SS or spend Focused for + to Df or cheat (if you cheat first) just to deny EVS that 13 for free.

No help, only cards

The rule book does NOT say if you're at full life healing is ignored as if it doesn't exist. It says "A model's Health cannot exceed its maximum Health; if a Heal effect would cause it to exceed this limit, any additional Healing is ignored" We Are Legion occurs WHEN Healing, and modifies the amount healed, to a minimum of 0. The Healed model's health is never (attempted to) increased above its maximum health.

Technically it occurs "when healing"

Yea, actually the more I think about this now, the more I agree with being able to transfer a heal at full wounds. A model receives a "healing effect", thus it "Heals" Rulebook: "When a model Heals..." WeAreLegion: "During the Activation Phase, when this model Heals..." I see no reason why WeAreLegion would not apply as soon as a model receives a healing effect, as that is what constitutes when a model "Heals", before any increase in Health even occurs. Chronicle at least specifies "after a model heals," meaning the Rulebook rule "activates" first and has a chance to ignore the healing effect as if the healing did not occur. -- I also fail to see any clear way to resolve the opposite position: A model Heals for X The Heal applies, raising health by X We Are Legion effect occurs, retroactively reducing health by 1 (but this isn't damage) So what if a model missing 2 health Heals for 3? Should it be healed to full health, then the excess healing is ignored, then the healing is lowered by 1? So the Healed model only increases it's health by 1? A model takes X damage The damage applies, lowering health by X We Are Legion effect occurs, retroactively increasing health by 1 (but this isn't a Heal) So if the health was reduced to 1 during step 2, would that model drop the marker for Recover Evidence? Or, if the model is reduced to 0 health, is the excess damage ignored like normal, and then We Are Legion lessens the damage by 1, meaning Cadmus models can almost never die?

I agree. It's not plan A. But also Mordrake has an imperceptible and larger threat range, especially if he dies and respawns before activating. And the threat this poses is itself an advantage, just scaring your opponent into not spreading out, or being too afraid to push his Mv 4 beatstick into Ivan because Mordrake is right there next to him ready to bury you. Also, Ivan can Encroaching Shadows to push the Shadow Marker 6". The day might come where I'll bury the enemy master, activate Ivan, and push the marker 18" away behind my entire crew. I'm gonna feel really bad.

Haven't played an Explorer's game yet, but yea, this trigger is absolutely filthy. Effective Stat 7 vs Mv on staggered models (Stat 5 otherwise, which against Mv is perfectly fine), permanent bury if the enemy can't remove the marker. If the model is buried at the end of the game, it's dead. Even if they can remove the marker, that's 1 AP to remove - effectively Slow (or worse if they had to use AP moving towards the marker). Works on everything, even Masters. Can be done to multiple models during the game. Mordrake can even make his own markers with Tomes or low Crows. And Mordrake himself is unkillable without Demise-ignoring effects (or killing/pressuring Ivan) so you can't even get rid of him. There is one saving grace - all the models in Keyword are 30mm except the Broken Spectre (who is slow and hard to summon) so at least Ivan can't easily step on the marker to hide it.

As long as it is concluded that cards in the conflict are discarded at the end of the flip/cheat sequence, yes

Ah, forgot that bit

I think Old Ways can provide us with a little Rules as Intended here. If the above is how it worked, then every Savage model would be able to Attack, cheat a 13, then at the end of the action discard the 13. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Attack & Old ways - pull the 13 back in for another round. Basically until the opponent gets to take an action.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Old ways would let you keep using a 13 to succeed with all models affected by a shockwave at the cost of 1 Health per model. I think my initial interpretation makes the most sense - the "Effect" refers to the duel / damage flip itself. Basically an effect (in this context) would be "an instance of flipping and or cheating cards" --- As a side note, I don't like what this means for EVS against crews with lots of positive flips (Like M&SU, for instance). Deep discovery is almost worthless when the card you can cheat is the lower of two cards that your opponent flipped (plus minus some variability in stats)

Actually yes, I agree with this. I thought of this a few days ago but forgot. Edit: However, if this is the intended way this should work, it really should have been "would heal"

Yea, that's fine. I agree with that interpretation since now I notice the second "Healing" the one referred to by the text in parentheses is also capitalized. (Still, from a thematic perspective I feel like Cadmus should be able to pass healing around at full health) Edit: To anyone reading, I change my mind later in the thread so keep reading

I believe this is incorrect. At least in the rule I'm quoting, the model is not treated as if the healing did not occur. It's only that excess healing is ignored as if healing did not occur.

Is there a line in the rulebook backing this? I thought this is the way it worked initially, but it seemed weird that both the Duel Card and the Damage Flip Card remain in "the conflict" until the action is resolved and then are discarded together. There isn't any rule preventing multiple cards being in the conflict explicitly, but the way that Positive/Negative flips work where one card is put in the conflict and the others are immediately discarded makes it seem like Wyrd were trying to avoid multiple cards being in the Conflict for a player at one time. And being able to place the card used for the Duel at the top of your discard pile (above even the card used for damage) seems strange to me as well. This would also mean that for Shockwaves, each card placed in the Conflict by the defending models stay in the conflict until the action has been fully resolved for all affected targets. Again, nothing explicitly prevents this, but it feels weird. Rereading it now, I can definitely see it working this way, but it's a bit ambiguous.

I would say yes, you can.

By the bolded wording I would assume when a model "Heals" refers to receiving an effect which heals it, not actually increasing it's health value. I also would argue that "(as though it did not occur)" is a phrase that only applies to the previous statement "any additional Healing is ignored." It is not saying that the model did not "Heal", it is only saying that additional Healing is ignored AS IF it did not. Therefore I believe We Are Legion allows Cadmus to transfer 1 Healing to another model even when at full health, and Chronicle applies even when a model at full health receives Healing. Thoughts?

When you get to use the top card of someone's discard pile, when does this happen in relation to discarding the cards that took place during the duel? This matters for abilities/actions/triggers such as: Deep Discovery (EVS) Chronicle (Tannenbaum) In Memoriam (Mikhail XVI) What does "the effect" in the above passage refer to? I think this refers to the Duel, or Damage Flip. (But it could be interpreted to mean the action?) Lets assume Model A is attacking Model B, who each have a ++ flip to the duel Effect: The Duel Modify the duel Flip Fate Card Each Player flips 3 cards, choosing one to place into the Confilct and discarding two others in any order they choose Cheat Fate At this point a model can use Deep Discovery to cheat with the opposing player's discarded card from within the same flip (NOT the top card of the opposing player's Discard Pile from before the action was performed) Determine Final Duel Total Declare Triggers At this point Mikhail (if he is Model A) declares In Memoriam and can choose one of either of the 2 discarded cards from within this duel or the top 3 cards from his discard pile from before the duel (As opposed to one of the top 5 cards from before the Duel) Determine Outcome Discard the card "In the Conflict" ?? Effect: Apply Results ?? Damage Flip (assume + flip) Player A flips 2 cards, one of which enters the Conflict and the other is discarded Player A can now cheat the card in the Conflict, discarding the previous card Discard the card in the conflict After Resolving At this point, Tannenbaum's Chronicle is resolved (assume Model A healed) - meaning the card at the top of your discard pile is ALWAYS the card last placed into the Conflict (in this case, the card you cheated for the damage flip) Did I get this right?

Speaking of which - can we get a list of all the really dangerous anti-summoning and anti-demise tech to look out for? Anti-Summoning: Lone Marshal, Vincent, Anna, Charm Warder, Exorcist, ? Anti-Demise: Manos, DatsueBa, Shenlong, Lord Cooper, Archivist, ? Mostly Avoidable: Charm Warder, Execute, ? -- So far it seems like declaring Ivan into Ressers is suicide, into 10T or Explorers is dangerous, into Guild is a toss-up, and into others is probably a safe bet.