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Posts posted by Nical
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I'm interested, too.
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Starter box(But wicked dolls may be too fragile to use.) + Arcane Effigy + Brutal Effigy + some solid minions.
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No. Because Mr.Tannen's Leave it to Luck works to only Every Card's Value, so other 13 + Daydream can't get +2 bonus.
So you need 13 and/or Red Joker (it can be counted ) for teddy.
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Ted, quick question. How do the coryphees play? I am intending on getting two when they finally come out oct-nov time. But am a little dubious on how they work with my favourite master.
Coryphee is very versatile model. Her Wk is very good and dealing is not bad. but we have good models like Silurid and Illuminated, so if you want a model for one purpose, other good models may be better. And she is very fragile against attacks ignoring armor. But in some combo for schemes, coryphee is great. For example, Coryphee + Vasilia w/ A friend To Talk To + Shadow Effigy combo is very powerful for Plant Explosives.
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My usual List - Fated Collodi
Collodi w/ Fated, Breathe Life, Strum the Threads or Thread of Fates(Up to Ratio of Puppets) +2 ~ 4 Marionettes
Arcane Effigy(Removal condition), Brutal and/or Lucky Effigy(Healing), and some solid minions like Illuminated.
Simply, Fated tactic is using buffed minions, so you need solid minions(and some effigies). Breathe Life is very useful for healing / disengaging, so I always take it for some tactical advantages. Strum the Threads is useful, but it doesn't work to non-puppet minions. so Thread of Fates is better for them. Arcane Effigy and one of Healing Efiigy are auto include models for competitive play.
My usual List - Bag of Props Collodi
Collodi w/ Bag of Props, Breathe Life, Strum the Threads +2 ~ 3 Marionettes
Arcane Effigy(Removal condition), Brutal and/or Lucky Effigy(Healing), Lazarus w/ Retribution's Eye and some solid models.
Bag of Props tactic is more focused to control by Collodi himself. Strum the Threads is better for Collodi himself than Thread of Fated, because this tactic needs to use Collodi's Pull the string for control. Lazarus is very good range enforcer. His Granade Launcher with Retribution's eye is very powerful and he use Collodi's Action by Assimilate.
Additionally, Vasilisa and Wicked Dolls are very fragile, so you must watch out opponent's attacks.
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In my experiences, I recommend to take trappers, too. And I recommend some denial models like Candy to deny Levi's models.
Additionally, if Levi takes Rusty Alyce, she is important target to deny. Her Rapid Fire is dangerous, And her Burn out can be used by Collodi's My will / Obey. Because when a model’s Actions are controlled by the opponent, the model does not change which models are considered friendly, so you can use it for an opponent's construct to reduce to Wd 1(but you must kill it before it reactivate).
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So the follow up question is: does the faction suffer by having nearly half of its masters overlap so much? I can think of another faction that does this really.
No. Neverborn masters are at least good, but just some masters are better.
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My point though, and the point of the thread, is that lucius and Collodi have a LOT of overlapping ground. So much so that it I ask the question: does a neverborn player need both?
Take Collodi & Some other faction puppets(Effigies & Mannequin). I like Lucius, but Fated Collodi is usually better than Lucius. For Example, Collodi can place scheme markers well by Mannequin and/or Shadow Effigy. But Lucius is not bad, just Collodi is better.
So I play both.
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Hehe, Since when do Austringers NOT need focus? Their dmg profile screams focus and their attack has a doubled range when focused... There is a reason they are specifically disallowed from being issued commands to but allowed to be commanded by his presence and that is because basically their whole thing is focus. I'm not even sure any other model in the game has a personal clause preventing just that model from using an ability, please correct me if I'm wrong. If Lucius could issue commands to Austringers he would probably be one of the most hated masters in the game (not sure if he would be strong still but hated for sure).
In Wave 2 beta, Lucius could use Issue Command to Austringers. The combo was strong.
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Ah gotcha. Yeah thing is Commanding Presence can only be used once against a model per turn too due to it being a horror duel. Also sux if they fail it. They also don't get any focus from Lucius (not that they really need it)
Yes, It is not good, but there is no other option for Austringers. So I usually take a Lawyer for Austringers.
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Ok, I think this is a justification, but I explain myself.
I never say I can use Issue Command to Austringers. I just say about Issue Command for "2 Trapper".
But, 3 Issue Command is my mistake. Because I like to use Commanding Presence to Austringers.
Additionally, I agree Lucius's shooting combo needs more resource. So I think it must be used wisely.
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Simply, Lillith can kill almost everything, but her real motto is "Divide and Conquer". I think she is "board control" master. As asrian says, she may isolate target from Opponent's Crew and hit target where you want, when you want. So, who is our real "killing" master? I choose Jacob Lynch.
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Colloid with 2 trappers and a Doppleganger is 11 shots a turn on at least positive flips (4 of them on double positive flips). Makes lucius gun line look a little feeble.
Lucius can take 2 trappers and Doppleganger to do like that.(
32 Issue Command & (0) Action by Secret Asset) And His Issue Command has Range Bonus for Guardsmen. But most important models are Austringers. their main shooting attack(Vulture)'s damage is low, but it can ignore LoS. So Lucius and 2 Austringers and a doppleganger can shoot to kill opponents safely. So I think Lucius's shooting combo is not feeble. -
As Others said, Zoraida is Control(Opponent) master and Lucius is Support master, and Collodi can be both by his Limited Upgrades.
Lucius's best advantage is Surprisingly Loyal. If he doesn't use it, he is not useful than fated Collodi. But with it, Lucius can "counter" opponents by his Gunners. People usually forget we can take more guns than them.
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Juju is good model, but It is up to your strategies and crews. For Example, Teddy / Candy / Mctavish can replace bad juju in some crews.
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I have played Collodi and Lucius, So I talk about my experiences and thought.Pure neverborn Lucius is not bad, but Fated Collodi is better. Beckoner + Illuminated + AP Transfer(My will / Issue Command) is very solid combo of them, but Collodi can add more buffs. And all other minions work well with them. But they can't do anything for enforcers, so I recommend to choose self-reliant enforcers for them. About henchmen, Lucius have some synergies with Candy and she works in any crew for heal / tank / denial. (Additionally, I have used Vasilisa with Collodi / Lucius, but I don't recommend her. Because Vasilisa is too fragile against Wp Attacks.)
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Vendetta? Bring Shooting Mercenaries. For example, Freikorps Trapper.
Lucius - Our best master for "Tricky" Schemes is Lucius.
His Secret Asset Upgrade's trigger and What Lackeys Are For are useful for Plant Explosive, and Lucius's Guild Intelligence is useful for Spring the Trap.
Collodi - Use Shadow Effigy +@ / Mannequin
Shadow Effigy's Remember the Mission can use to place Scheme marker without interact.
And Obey / Lure are useful to drag Opponents to your scheme markers.
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I think walking to Zoraida is not bad. Because Dance,puppet is useful ability to move hemmed model.
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Same Faction, Same Masters, But More Conversion!
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Simply, Opponent's Crew list is one of important things for this topic. But in my opinion....
Easiest
Protect Territory
Just place some scheme markers and Keep your models near them. Any crews can do that, so I think it is easiest scheme.
Frame for Murder
It usually works, but you must check your opponent's crew before you choose it.
Hardest
Outflank
It needs to reveal for 3VP. And your opponent can deny it by just engaging. So my tactic for this scheme is
Spring the Trap
If your opponent sense it, he/she can deny your plan easily. But some crew can complete this scheme well.
Deliver a message
It needs to reveal for 3VP, too. And It needs 2AP. But if you have some trick for this scheme, it become easier.
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Simply, No 1AP Charge & Uncontrollable by Neverborn.
But if you really want to use Wild Boars, I recommend to use them as fire and forget missiles by From the Shadows + Bayou Rampage.
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I think Collodi needs at least 2 Effigies, Arcane and Brutal.
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I agree with Asrian. Zoraida's Conditions are useful, but I think Actions by Obey are better.
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I like to use Dirial's A and B. Additionally, you can use chiaki to remove conditions for you by obey.
Collodi Slingshot
in The Neverborn
Posted
Hmm.... I agree full marionette quartet is sometimes too expensive. But when I need more SS, I prefer less(2-3) marionettes to primordial magic. Because Marionettes are one of cheapest expendable minions, and Collodi can summon them, so I think they are very good minions. But I always take Primordial Magic for Lucius, so I know how good it is. I think I need to test your idea. Thanks for your post.