Necromorph

Haha...I'm sure you will enjoy Levi.

However, playing Hamelin with lots of rats/without rats at all really isn't the issue that people have with him...it's everything else, lol.

Yep, that's pretty much how we've always played it. You can't target Hamelin if you're Ht1 of Insig, so he can just walk away from you nochalantly.

It will happen, "at some point" in most games, but not always when you need it to....or hardly ever in my case with my terrible luck, which is why I tend to drift more toward the CR spam than tots, though I can't deny the Young Neph's effectiveness when they actually do get to grow.

Hey,

well nix isn't a merc, so couldn't be hired by anyone else that isn't an outcast, right? And although old hamelin can hire 1 height 1 model new nix is height 2, so that wouldn't work. Perhaps abit more context on how you'd be using them, might help with a more definitive answer..

Although I would say no based purely on fluff..

SS!

Old Hamelin doesn't hire anything, he's a minion, and his rule is adding to what you can hire, not restricting it. Also, no outcast other than Hamelin can hire him.

The reason Kirai CAN is because she has an ability that says she can hire any non-resser spirit at no additional out-of-faction cost. Then she can hire Hamelin as a merc.

A quick list to add / reitrated. What lobo said.

Jack daw

Hanged

Ryle

The riders

Belles

Canines

Necropunks

Watchers

Crooked men

Teddy

Punk zombies

Steamborg

If I think of more fun stuff ill add it haha....I love levi and his hiring schenanigans.

You'd have to take aprox. 3-6 Gremlins, kill them with a pulse or blast (Pere or Raphael) and then have the taxidermist start making stuffed piglets. Granted it gimps your ss pool and you only get limited shots, but that's basically the only way you could use it for Lacroix.

Whoa whoa whoa...I only read the first page...but are we really gonna sit here and say something for Gremlins is too powerful....ROFL.

He's a 1 trick pony, and I don't think there's anything wrong with him. I don't think they should make Oopsie a (2), that would make him slow and gimpy (considering his cb isn't all that high with his weapons). If anything they could knock the range of Oopsie's pulse down by 1" or something.

As has been said, he's only that destructive if the enemy lets him be. Spread out, use low ss models to block the way to your main force, obey, austringers (as much as I hate the f***ers), etc,etc. It's really a very simple trick, and people need to try and adapt their strategies first before we start looking at changing models' stats/abilities.

The metal thing? By his left leg (next to the gun)? Looks like a hookah to me, but I don't see a hose.

In terms of power, I'd say outcasts are up there, probably second to Neverborn IMO.

Levi- The most powerful offensive spellcaster in the game, and to go off what ratty said, he can hire any undead or construct models in the game.

Hamelin- Despite maybe posts claiming he's "broken" he is just simply very powerful, probably second best in the game to Colette.

Mercs- Mercs include the Viktorias, Von Schill and all mercenary minions. They are incredibly versatile, as they can hire mercs to fit any situation, and they are relatively straight forward.

Gremlins- Gremlins can be very nasty in the right hands, but they have a very steep learning curve. They do, however, have the potential to be the best shooty crew in the game once the Pigapult comes out.

Trust me, defensive by itself isn't all that useful...maybe 1/10 times. Their combat is 4 higher than your df...they can flip much lower than you and still tie/beat you even if you have a 13.

The real problem is the guild stalling (not sure how your guild players play). They know that they don't want to get close (12") to you because levi will take them apart. So they sit back, and force you to make a move. If you don't, then you basically sit there and get hit by austringers at 18". If you sit too long, they'll start targeting your higher cost models with the bird-chucking bastards, and if you make a move they kill your waifs. Maybe the guild players at my LGC just play like d!cks and just hide behind their austringers while they soften you up instead of playing a real game, but I've played against the austringers long enough to know that there is little outside of chancy gambles that will save your waifs; guardians are probably the best option...combined with defensive, haha. Either that or the game will be a big ol' stalemate as noone wants to enter the other's range.

Bingo, Murphy.

There are some folks at the LGC who are the standard "Bodyguard Holdout" types, and I love taking Kirai or Hamelin and just outactivating them, and then taking Breakthrough. So on the last turn, when they are activated out, I can just stroll one of my quick models right into the deployment zone and finish the game by saying... "8-6".

Tot needs a 9+ to grow. Certainly there is a good chance to get it on turn1 but its a massive gambit. And Hamelin also needs those high s. On the other hand the Tot in itself is a good model for 3 SS. Just don't rely your strategy on maturing it.

I'm also curious about the role of the Canine Remains. Overactivation?

Basically what Magic said. Although, you are correct about the gamble with hoping for that 9+:masks. I has a game against colette where I had 2 tots and it took me 3 turns of trying to cast grow, drawing cards through the wretch, etc and I think I only managed to grow 1 of them to a young by turn 3. Basically if you're going to use tots, and then don't grow by turn 1-2, just say screw it and go with the tot, maybe try to grow it later if you're not engaged, but otherwise you'll waste too much time.

Granted, the number of times you will NOT get that 9+:masks is slim...I just have epic bad luck with cards...all the time...so my situation may just be unique, lol.

Yeah like Lobo said, Austringers will make you want to stop bringing Levi against Guild. There isn't much he can take with the exception of Hooded rider or Jack Daw that have the speed and survivability against guild shooting to get back there and kill them.

Guardians are a good way to make sure at least 1 waif survives, but it's still no guarantee. Silly how a 5ss model can cripple such a powerful master. One of his Avatar form abilities in book 3 better be that he doesn't need waifs anymore, lol.

@ Drake

See, normally I appreciate your outlook on Hamelin, but in this case I feel you're being a bit misleading. I won't go into details, but he's not quite THAT powerful. Basically, yes he can do those things, but not to that extent/degree. Also, he's not talking about how to beat Hamelin, but what is good about playing him. Not trying to be a douche, but whenever a new player asks about Hamelin, we don't need someone jumping in and saying "OMG OMG, he's soooooo OP and broken, don't play him because he's invincible and no one will want to play you!!?!" I know you're not doing that, but IMO it was still a somewhat disheartening post for a new player (unless ofc he's a heartless bastard and his motive is to piss people off, haha).

@ OP

If you like swarms of rats (kinda the reason I started him) he's a damn good master. He is a little bit strong right now, and some people will b!tch about you playing him, but hey, he's a master in the game and if he was that broken they would have errata'd him already (well they did on his Indiscriminate Void ability, but I don't have the link).

The one downside to actually playing Hamelin is that you have a very limited selection of models to choose from, but he still has a number of competitive builds using some models that aren't specifically "his." I like him a lot.

The rats will heal the RC if the blast does not kill the RC at the same time as the rats. I.e. a blast (or pulse) does 5 dg, the rats will die, the RC takes 5 dg (leaving him with 1wd and I"m not including armor), but then he is healed by the rats ability, then new rats are generated by the RC.

If the blast or pulse does enough wd to kill the RC outright, he will not be healed by the rats or generate more (unless Hamelin or another Rc are close by that is).

Awesome mini's, Wyrd, keep it up!

Nurses are pretty crap, but to use them to any effect at all you don't want to "rush the dogs up."

Move them up a little, maybe behind a piece of terrain and then use Furious Casing for 3 Massive Doses on a pair of dogs. Give dog A reactivate and stimulant, and give dog B reactivate. Trust me, with reactivate they can cross insane distances on the board so you don't need to be far upfield. You move, reactivate, charge with the stimulant dog, and then on the same target you move, reactivate, move charge (via Bloodhound, charges are 1ap if you are charging a model that took wounds). They can do a lot of damage, and it's kinda cool to see their speed. It won't be effective against every crew however (Kirai with Spirits and Hoffman with Armor for example) but it can work decently. The downside is you have to build your list around that tactic and sink a lot of points into dogs.

Jack Daw is great against him consider investing in this model to improve your options when taking him on.

This. Jack Daw is one of the only models that makes me go, "Oh s**t," when I'm playing Hamelin.

The only issue is that the rat catchers will get nuked fast without the +2 armor from Covered in Rats.

Hahaha...indeed. Yeah it does suck pretty bad for Gremlins. All the more reason to make Bully a TN duel...although their WP is pretty low anyway.

Look at his sig....he plays a whole lotta Gremlins...and they are in a whole lotta trouble vs Ham. Not that removing Bully is a viable solution, but still.

I understand the argument about Hamelin making people "not want to play" or "not have fun." Hell, most of you have seen my posts about Guild...I hate the entire faction. The whole faction makes me want to just walk away when I have to play them...It's not that they're unbeatable, quite the opposite, but they're just not fun to play against for me at all. So should we take away their built in crits, lower their damage/stats and pick apart their core units to make them less of a pain in the ass? No. Hamelin needs changes, but he shouldn't be cuddled into the ground.

After our last league, myself and Odin decided not to use Hamelin or Colette in league play, because there were a fair amount of new people in the league and we didn't want to turn anyone away. Granted I only used Hamelin 2/6 games, and they were against Odin and another experienced player, but we're just not going to play the power masters for that very reason...we don't want people to "quit the game over it." Obviously Malifaux should be fun, and you've all heard why I think that masters like Colette aren't spoken of much in the "omg cuddle!" circle. However, I have faith that Wyrd will balance Hamelin out, either through changing his specifically, adding good counters to book 3, or a bit of both.

Levi's Desolation. Don't run up against many swarms, and even if I do, I'd much rather be melting their master's face than dealing a 2dg pulse. (It would be sick against rat swarms though, lol...but I think I'm the only Hamelin player at the LGC).

This is true, Q. However, as you pick schemes after you choose your crews, it can be harder to avoid. Especially if you're going the objective saturation route (Claim Jump, Recon, etc.) and you may have more low ss cost models, it's much easier for them to pull off kidnap.

It's not completely unavoidable, but you can avoid it in the right situations...ummm...yeah.

Hahaha...actually, though I do play Mcm, I just played Hamelin against a Neverborn player for the final game of our league...and he didn't take kidnap...which is auto 2vp vs Hamelin.

I knew he is equal or better than me in skill, and I was expecting it, but he took bodyguard /holdout. I won 8-7 (damn jack daw) and just wondered to myself why he didn't take kidnap...he would have won 9-8, lol.

That being said, I think they need to rework some of the faction/master specific schemes...some of them (i.e. kidnap/sabotage) are just way to goddamn easy compared the rest.

She's a lot of fun to play. Nothing brightens your day more than seeing a look on an opponent's face when you 1shot their best model with a double damage trigger hahaha.

They can be competitive as well, but their comp. learning curve is steep.

Actually, a question of my own. Have you other gremlin players tried using Som'er (just him) with an all Lacroix crew? It seems like draining your opponent's hand every turn followed by a round of Lacroix shooting is just insanely brutal but I have yet to try it myself.