Darguth

I've watched all of your Warmachine batreps (also a Khador player), they are by far the highest-quality batreps I've ever watched and I'm always pleased to see a new one posted.

Very excited to see you get into Malifaux and I can only hope the quality will be up-to-par with the rest of your content. Good luck!

Certainly sounds promising.

Does it mean that Som'er will change in the shake up? If there's a master that specialises in Pigs will Som'er stay as a jack of all trades or will he change to a more Bayou Gremlin/Mosquito focused direction?

I'd personally prefer if Som'er either (A) remained a jack-of-all-trades Master that could summon models as-needed for the task at hand or ( just becomes an insane summoning factory, even more so than he is today, to differentiate himself from Ulix's pigs and Ophelia's gunline playstyles.

One of my personal hopes for M2E Gremlins in general is to see the Warpig rebalanced significantly. He's a great model and I have one that I had painted on commission that looks spectacular. Too bad I have only played him once since then, and that was specifically because I wanted to use him and not because it was a great choice. I'm cautiously optimistic that Ulix's pig-centric theme means this will come to pass.

Hrm, so if Ulix focuses on pig-centric crews and Ophelia continues to focus on gremlin-centric crews, I wonder how exactly So'mer will fit in. Not worried necessarily, just curious.

Any recap for those of us that can't listen for quite awhile (tomorrow afternoon at the earliest )?

It's this:

:rams - dumb luck

:crows - shoot your friend

:masks - push toward your target

:tomes - extra blast markers

Do we happen to know with the updated :crows "Whoops!" trigger on whether or not:

A.) You still need to miss your original target for it to hit a friendly, or if it retargets automatically?

B.) If it retargets automatically, does it auto-hit or is it an opposed duel against your friendly target?

I imagine they'll continue to provide the rules in pdf form as they do now, unless they decide to include a set of quick start rules in every starter box. I imagine that if and when errata is needed for cards - that subset of cards will again be available for free online. That's basic post-release product support - providing free corrections and fixes. Providing all the stat cards and upgrade cards for old models free does not strike me as a smart business move. That's a lot of development time to revamp the rules and rebalance every existing model. Not a cheap effort. This is no longer post-production errata; its a new release, so I don't find it unreasonable to expect to pay to update all 7 of my factions to 2nd edition. If they do provide free pdf cards, great, but it screams of false entitlement to expect and/or demand such of Wyrd.

Seriously?? How about because it costs a great deal of time and money to not only develop a revamped set of rules but to rebalance and modify every model for those new rules. That is not a trivial cost. Providing rules errata to fix and correct what is broken is one thing, to provide free rules for every model is an entirely different situation. The two cases are not equal.

Buy a car. If there is a defect in the car that requires a service recall, it will be free. That is post-release support such as card/rules errata or free software patches to fix bugs. If something breaks due to wear and tear, you expect to pay a maintenance fee to replace everything that's broken and keep the car running and usable through the years. This is equivalent to updating to a new edition - you keep your core but freshen it up so it continues to be usable. Alternatively, you don't do any maintenance and grind that car into the ground - ie: continue to use 1.5 rules - it won't be as pretty or polished, but its still functional - just like a junker of a car. Finally, a new model of the same car comes out, you expect to pay for it. This is equatable to the release of new plastic starter kits. They are nice, but probably not necessary.

These are not at all comparable scenarios. This is not maintenance. A 2nd Edition is essentially a new product, just derived from a previous one.

When you bought your 1st edition rules and models, you were sold exactly that. You were not sold ad nauseum tweaks and maintenance. A company chooses to do that, and you can vote with your feet/wallet if you don't like it. However, the product they sold you is still exactly what you paid for originally. You can still play with your 1st edition rules and models, no one is taking that away from you.

Don't know if there is a requirement of missing for Whoops to activate. I'd think it was just if you had a :masks but I don't have the cards so couldn't tell you for sure. My impression was that if you flipped a mask it was Whoops time, but a miss would just be a miss.

Gotcha. Still probably a buff as it's usually easier to cheat out of a suit than cheat out of a miss.

From memory, Whoops are changing. They now have a trigger on their range attack for each suit, with Whoops being one of them(On a :crows?) and a special rule saying they have to use a trigger if able. Another trigger (on :masks I think) is something like "I got it Pa" and requires you to push towards the model hit. So could be good, could be bad. Dumb Luck stays, can't remember the last trigger.

So you'd need to miss and miss with a :crows to trigger Whoops, with the possibility to cheat out of it? Yeah, that's a pretty big buff.

Just wanted to pipe in with something. If you haven't had the chance, I would recommend listening to the various podcasts with interviews on 2.0 if you can. People on the boards have been doing a fantastic job of covering new info (thanks to everyone who has!) but with the sheer amount of info that they talk about some things can be lost. Unless of course someone were to word for word transcribe a podcast which is crazy even for most here on the boards.

Just finished the Through the Breach podcast and learned a number of changes that weren't mentioned in some of the summaries. Obviously the big things like SS and Red Joker were covered but how the Voodoo Doll or Bayou Gremlins changed for instance. (I will say that the Gremlins as a whole seem to be making out like bandits with the version update, which I'm totally happy with.)

So if you're able, give them a listen cause there's lots of stuff out there.

I can't listen at work, care to share any specifics on how the Bayou Gremlins are changing?

You know you could try something like the Malifaux Encounter Generator (forget who made it, just have it bookmarked):

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67990595/MalifauxEncounterGenerator.html

It could greatly speed up pregame play as it does those flips for you. Printing out Strat/Scheme cards is a good idea too.

And you are not mistaken. I too heard that they will have a few well-balanced Shared strats to begin with. The more asymmetrical narrative style strats will come soon after. So hopefully with the reduced Core strats and the limited scheme pools you should be able to get pre-game done a little quicker.

I'm hopeful overall and if I can't get any games in I plan on focusing on painting.

Thanks for that link, that's a pretty handy little tool. I'll bookmark it on my phone so I'll have it with me

...or you can decide the game isn't what you are looking for and play something else.

This is exactly what's happened, unfortunately. I say "unfortunately" because we all would like to play the game because we love the fluff and the models, but the complexity to even start a game combined with some other factors (i.e. ambiguous rules, models that are walls-o-text, etc) just makes us say, "**** it, let's do something else."

We're adult hobbyists with plenty of disposable income. Wyrd is losing our business because of this. I expressed a preference/desire that would gain them more of our business. I don't think that's as unreasonable as many here seem to be suggesting.

I'm not sure what outcome you are even looking for here.

I think I stated that pretty clearly:

1.) Re-balance Masters and their available crews to be able to deal with any available Strategy on a much more even footing.

2.) Reduce the need for tailoring of crew lists and scheme selections so specifically, so as to reduce start-up time.

You may not agree with those wants, but they're far from unclear.

Another fact: I have heard in podcast that Faction Decks will be cheap - very good. But in this moment I collect and play: Guild, Neverborn, Ressers, Gremlins, Outcasts and Arcanists. Will together the six Faction Decks (which I need) be cheap? I have my doubts.

I think it's pretty unreasonable to assume you're not going to accrue opportunity costs when you got into a miniatures game, probably knowing full well that they were expensive to begin with, and then decide to play almost every single faction.

Seriously, how did you think that would ever result in any "cheap" options to maintain?

I'm curious...you say you're usually playing group games. That probably is adding 10 minutes to the setup too. More solo games probably make sense while still figuring out the game.

I'm not sure if I was unclear or how you might have misread my posts, but we definitely don't play many multiplayer games. I think we did a 2v2 once...maybe twice? The vast majority of our games have definitely been 1v1, though we haven't played in quite awhile (for the reasons I've laid out here, as well as some others but those seem to be in the pipe to be modified/fixed anyway).

So, what you can do in advance is just think through what masters you like for what strats and beyond that, what core 1-3 models you like with that master with that strat. Once you are used to that, its really just about knowing what schemes you like with the strats.

That sounds pretty reasonable, but it only works if everyone is just as willing to put in that forethought. Unfortunately, I know my playgroup and that's not the case I could be fully prepared and ready to go at a moment's notice, and they'll still spend 30+ minutes getting ready, or they might simply not want to play because it would take them 30+ minutes getting ready.

It's a viable workaround where I could essentially have myself prepared for nearly all situations, I fully agree, but it's treating the symptom and not the cause of the hang-up. It also still requires a relatively large degree of buy-in and effort to work, which is a stumbling block when trying to get (back) into the game. Particularly compared to other available options that we like playing as well.

Interesting. I'd like to see the opposite and the death of all-comers.

Strat/Scheme selection in light of crew construction is one of the aspects I really like about the game. All-comers are the opposite.

I have plenty of alternate game system choices where I can build all-comer lists all day long.

But, its just my personal preference that this game try to not be like other games in that regard.

My real problem with it is simply that we play multiple games but have a limited amount of time to meet-up and play. Crew selection at game start-up, rather than prior, really can slow things down. Not only do I have to select my models and select my schemes, but I now also have to decide if I want upgrades for any/all of my models?

That'll easily add 15-30 minutes to game start-up for people in my playgroup, I guarantee it. That's just another barrier against wanting to play, honestly. If it takes us 15 minutes to startup a game of Warmahordes compared to 30-45 minutes to start playing Malifaux, it's just more likely that we'll play Warmahordes because it's easier, faster, and we can possibly fit in a second game on our game nights.

I realize it's a preference, and I even mentioned in my first post that I may likely be in the minority, but it's my preference. So I decided to express it in a thread where I thought it might get the developer's attention so they can at least take it into account.

Agreed. Also does there have to be official rules in order for you to make an all comers list? Just agree with your opponent to make you lists before finishing out what the strategies and schemes are, done. The game needs to put in official rules that encourages this for you to take advantage of it?

Again, it's not just the rules, it's the balance of the game. If you don't design the models and their interactions around the viability of an all-comers format it's simply not going to be viable, and no one (including myself) is going to want to play in that contrived format if it's not well supported.

Now, I thought what I'd read is that there was going to be some kind of Standard vs. Narrative encounters. I was hoping that this was an indication that they are trying to cater to both of our preferences simultaneously. Which is why I broached the subject.

I'm fine and dandy if people prefer something other than me. More power to you. But I don't think it's out of line to state my preference, and you seem to be taking it almost personally.

I'm just saying that I've got a playgroup of at least 6-7 people that would loooove to play Malifaux, but that honestly the barrier of entry to even start a game usually encourages us to just doing something else. We honestly view it as more of a hassle than fun. Whether or not you agree that, that's our view and situation. So we've more or less stopped buying models and playing at all. I'm hoping the M2E will be able to rekindle our interest, and that's why I'm trying to figure out what to expect so that I can start possibly fanning those flames.

Just commenting on this question, as it piqued my interest. nothing, even in 1.0 prevents you from doing that. Just agree with your opponent before hand that you will select your crews blind to a certain SS level and go from there. Does there need to be official rules to justify doing exactly that?

Well, it's not just the ruleset but the balance of the game. Not all masters can deal with all Strategies equally. So the Strategy can really dictate not only how you build your crew, but what Master you're taking in the first place.

Essentially I'd really like to see the balance addressed in such a way that an all-comer list approach is viable. Currently, I don't think it is for the majority of Masters.

It seems that this is at least on the slate with "balancing" Masters as well as streamlining Strategies and scheme sets. Will have to wait and see I suppose

Question: One of the biggest drivers of me and others in my playgroup away from Malifaux and to other games like Warmahordes is how dreadfully long it takes to even *start* a game of Malifaux.

You've got to determine your terrain, special terrain rules, setup the board, randomize an Encounter, build a custom crew for that Encounter, select your Schemes, determine deployment, and deploy you crews all before you can get started. It takes a long time, especially if you're new or don't play frequently.

Will this be addressed at all in M2E, and do we have any details as to how? I thought I'd read something about having "Standard Encounters" versus "Narrative Encounters". I'm assuming the latter will retain much of the flavor of today's setup process (total speculation on my part), but what can we expect with the former?

I know that I'm perhaps in the minority here, but I'd really like to be able to have predetermined "all-comers" crew lists that I can bring to our game night and then sit down at a table with some balanced terrain and just get crackin' with a random scenario.

Wizards did it.

Specifically because the Spell allows it to occur.

Can you be more specific? Is it specifically due to the wording on the targeting within range of the spell that overrides the core targeting rules for a attack?

No it cannot be used in melee as a Boomstick Strike is a attack.

Also, Smell Fear does NOT override being able to charge a model you're already in melee with.

So, why can Blades & Bullets allow one to shoot in melee then? The Long Arm Pistol is also a attack.

I'm curious about how I should interpret 'Non Mindless Zombie Corpse Counter' in the ability. Does it refer to the fact that Mindless Zombies count as corpse counters? Or does it refer to corpse counters being left behind after a Mindless Zombie is killed?

Pretty sure it's the former. Otherwise it would say something closer to, "a Corpse Counter generated by a Mindless Zombie's death" etc.

Have have had triplicates from Dark Sphere and GW before now though, if only Dark Sphere refunded the return postage, grr.

::splutter::

Wait...what? So, you're saying you returned unordered, duplicate items and they made you pay for the return postage?!

Wp buff and Hard to Kill for Friendly Gremlins

Wowza, that seems like a pretty solid buff to hand out for Gremlins in particular with their low Df and Wd stats.

No more take a swig, but he has a (0) that can do 1 of 3 things a turn, 1 of which is a healing flip to all gremlins in the :pulse6 (including him). Also keep in mind, he counts as a Pig so the Hog Whisperer can reactivate him, heal him, and make him fly!!!

Nice! What are the other 2 things that the 6" pulse can do?!

Wow, he is a pretty solid beatstick. Me likes Does he retain "Take a Swig" or will the Whisperer's "Sooet Nothings" and Soulstones be the only way to heal him up?

/boggle

I'd be so afraid of breaking all of that just by looking at it.