Math Mathonwy

Also worth noting that Hazardous and Concealing work differently in that everything Hazardous is "Hazardous Terrain" but Auras can give out Concealment without them being Concealing terrain. Definitely something that could be made clearer in a future edition.

With a 3" On the Move, Mv3 ja 2" reach his threat range for Move + Charge is the same as it would be for a standard Mv5 1" reach model. Add to that Heroic Intervention and his Bonus Action and I doubt he will have an especially difficult time reaching the enemy. And why is he Stat 7? And with On the Move he will get to make use of that 2" reach all the time making it especially potent. Not to mention how he gets to Charge all the time and reap the benefits from that making him min damage 3 (4 with a Trigger) which is kinda bonkers.

Armor+2, Df5 with easy access to plus flips and Wp6. He seems extremely good to me.

Now, granted, 8SS Enforcers need to be pretty premium since that's the territory of Henchmen with their access to SS use but I'm still worried about the power creep in the new book. Bayou looks absolutely insane to me on paper.

On paper they seem extremely powerful to me.

There is quite a bit of card draw, Tongue Whirlpool is very powerful, Reel In is very versatile, and the super leap is naturally crazy. Additionally the Scheming and disruption potential for this model seems to be through the roof. The Totem is super squishy so a bit of a single-use but that single use can be very powerful.

Hermits offer something very new to the Gremlins and they do it extremely well. In Combination with Bo Peep a Hermit can make a Bayou crew very resilient and GG3 favours those sorts of things. They seem extremely good.

And finally, Aunty looks absolutely monstrous. Now, she is very dependent on the Adversary thing so a canny opponent can make it awkward for her but Bayou isn't lacking in movement shenanigans so getting her to shoot her target shouldn't be impossible and when she does - oh boy! Again, seems like a very good fit for GG3. And if the opponent is forced to hide their expensive model and use them very sub-optimally because of her threat, that can be game-winning in itself.

I'm kinda worried that we'll have another Witness in our hands.

Skulker Skin still seem quite bad, though.

That said, I do like the theme and how they don't warp the rules in strange ways and yet seem to offer a ton of options playstyle-wise. Out of Bayou, the closest comparison I feel would be to Mah but that generalist niche isn't a bad place to double up on.

I do wonder how massive the mini is going to be and how it'll fit on a 50mm base. Or "fit" on it like Malisaurus Rex...

But in all seriousness, I like the format. I've had a ton of discussions locally about how the Faux release/errata schedule makes some problems when the new stuff inevitably includes power-level outliers. Especially as we were of the opinion that the latest errata really evened out the top end for the old stuff.

And yet we've also acknowledged that too frequent errata is also a thing that causes consternation especially among people who play less often. In a different system a friend of mine had a mini errataed four times in between him buying it and getting it painted  

So this BalanceFaux as an alternate format sounds good to me. I would personally just limit it by books but I can see the reasoning behind allowing the Enforcers and starter models from Burns. There are quite a few autopicks there but OTOH some make a real difference in competitiveness for a couple of the weaker keywords and I don't think that any cause real power level problems with the original Masters.

Danger Planet will be showing off the Clampetts this week!

Their channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC40aJZp2_pVo230mQyC42PQ/videos

Hehey, Franchute! Welcome back!

Danger Planet has been doing tier lists of the different factions - most of them are from GG2 but still worth a listen.

There were surprisingly few Gremlin models shown in the video - I only counted three in addition to the Clampetts and their title version.

I'm guessing that the Gremlin with the multi-barreled harpoon cannon would be the title box shared model with Harold Tull.

The Silurid Rider and the Snail Rider both look absolutely amazing so really looking forward to them. Though the Angler theme seems to be a bit all over the place.

Does anyone know what the relationship between Silurids and the Gibbering Horde is? Because I kinda thought that the Skulker Skin looked to be wearing a Gibbering Horde skin but that doesn't show in the previewed art, really.

On 8/22/2022 at 6:42 PM, SEV said:

(also she's a chubby green yelling lady gremlins but who care, she'll do the killing).

Well-rounded in more ways than one!

1 hour ago, Rufess said:

But I do agree that his current summoning is not good enough as a primal summoner. I would like to see it changing to summon a single Big Hat minion with the summon upgrade, plus a trigger to summon multiple Bayou Gremlins without upgrade, base on the duel total and TN, or by paying cost like health or something else.

I really like the idea! I think it would be kinda elegant to require discarding a card for each Bayou Gremlin summoned since then you kinda "deposit" the card into their demise. Unfortunately the keyword has too much discarding as is for this to work currently but it would've been really neat.

But the idea of a Trigger summoning extra Bayou Gremlins sounds really good to me!

15 hours ago, Johannes Schmitt said:

Thanks for the info. I played a little test game and already begin to like wizz-bang. It will definitely take a few more games to get my activations right though.

For our tournament in September we are going to play with a 50SS fixed crew, so I am banging my head what to bring to address wongs strengths and weaknesses. I went super ape and bought a bunch of boxes since they're a blast to paint as well. What do you think about this concept for a steady core?

Wong2
Olivia
Alphonse
Swine-Cursed
Sammy
Bo Peep
- This way i will probably have good targets to overload glowy and get wong in and out of harm.

Option A: I could add a Pigapult and Taxidermist to add some spice and put leftovers in upgrades for wong/alphonse/taxidermist.

Option B: The other choice would be fluffernutter, Swine-Cursed2 and a bokor or upgrades to max my points.
 

I think that looks like a very solid core!

For a fixed list I might go with option B as option A is a bit more specialized. B makes for a list with a lot of solid 'oomph' but still has Scheming potential and such due to the Wizz-Bang access to Fast. The current Gaining Grounds also favours staying power and option B is more durable in general.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

I like the idea of making Bayou Gremlins more useful. Especially @Diceman87's suggestion for Work Together Would Ya seems very fitting, elegant, and encourages the play patterns of Somer2. Also, going towards a more horde style would both fit Somer and make for a pretty unique playstyle.

Also, the note on discards being a bit too prevalent without that much card draw is a good observation. I feel that the design philosophy kinda evolved here a bit in that most other crews with lots of discarding going on tend to have good card draw to back it up. Now, Bayou Gremlin Demise might've been the idea to help Somer but with the changes to Summoning it doesn't seem to be working anymore.

I'm not sure that bringing back Somer1's hand discarding would be a good idea - it was a bit nightmarish to play against and I think it was dropped for a reason.

But great ideas and good conversation! Really hope that something gets done!

I've been testing the clock in physical games quite a few times now. We've used 15 minutes for the first turn per player, 20 minutes for second and third turns and fifteen for the fourth and fifth turns.

It has definitely made games get to the end more consistently.

My main problems have been

• When to flip to the opponent's clock on my own Activations. When something complex happens and the opponent needs to think about several cheats or SS use or measure their own Auras or Pushes and such I usually realize that they're taking a lot of time only after they've been thinking for quite a while already. Switching to the opponent every time their input is needed is naturally impossible. Often we also do bookkeeping stuff on the other player's time (for example Pulse Focus - mark it down for every model only after the Activation) - often this means that if you ask them something, they are preoccupied and things slow down again.
• Clock clearly favours some crews over others. Some crews have complex positioning due to multiple Auras or simply generate a hundred pips of Poison a turn and all of that takes time. Brewmaster2 causes lots of Pushes, ping damage, and Poison and all of that is slower in the real world as opposed to marking them in Vassal. It's also stressful to play a more complex Master who rewards better thinking so I've been gravitating towards simpler and simpler stuff.

So yeah, I can see the good most definitely since getting to the actual end of the game is very important. But there are some wrinkles as well.

I would also put weight in choosing a Faction rather than a single Master as the usual expectation is that you end up playing at least two or three Masters that you can then choose from for a game. So I would favour a Master who is from a Faction that has other Masters that you like the look of.

That said, it isn't impossible to win tournaments playing a single Master (even with a fixed list) but that does limit you.

Somer got absolutely gutted by the errata. And I feel that it has now been long enough that we've seen the results.

It was kinda weird and out of nowhere - he wasn't winning any tournaments, people weren't generally complaining about him (well, except that one random guy on the forums) and he seemed fine in general. Powerful yes, but difficult to play and very disruptible once you got the hang on how to do it.

Then he got hit with the double whammy of massive nerfs coupled with the Summoning changes.

I'd argue that if he was too powerful, the Summoning changes alone would've been quite enough to rein him in. Out of all the Masters in the game, I feel that he got hit the hardest by the change.

But he also got nerfed. And not just a bit but to an absolutely crippling amount. His summoning got nerfed, Bayou Two-card was hit with a gigantic double-whammy of a nerf and there was a couple of smaller things as well.

The end result is that I've not heard anyone doing good with him. He is still very difficult to play but the reward for skillful play is mediocre.

I also don't enjoy his playstyle all that much. It has been talked about before but his style in M1e was a combined arms approach with Pigs and Skeeters and Gremlins working in a delicate harmony. Now, I fully understand that there likely isn't going back to that style and I believe that he could be made fun with a less drastic rework. Kinda like what they did with McCabe.

I think that his main things are

• His Summoning
• His buff Auras
• His Gun
• Blowing up his own models
• The deep and synergistic interplay between his various keyword models 

I think you could just remove the Aura from Bayou Two-card if you keep it the way it is. Alternatively, I could see giving it back on defensive flips whilst still keeping the once per activation thingy.

As for his Summoning, I really don't understand why they lowered his stat. It could very easily be six still and wouldn't be crazy in any way, I feel.

But then the buffs should be done to his keyword, I think. Lenny, G&O, and Spit Hog are good stuff. I also probably wouldn't touch Bayou Gremlin though I do kinda wish they were slightly more defining for the faction as a whole. But I can totally see the dangers in making them too viable so, as said, probably wouldn't touch them.

Similarly, Old Cranky and White Rabbit Co. are fine as they are, IMO.

But then there's the rest.

Banjonistas have been long considered to be among the weakest models in the game and their signature Dueling Banjos really doesn't happen. They are also super squishy and, as we know, squishy Models are a liability giving the opponent activation control which leads to victory points.

And this is kinda the crux of the issue, I feel. Good Ol Boys and Criers are fine as such but if the opponent knows what they're doing, Somer very easily slides into a situation where the opponent will have the final critical activations and can clean up the Strategies and Schemes.

What if Somer had an Aura or a board-wide buff that gave him a Pass Token whenever a non-activated friendly model dies?

But this is getting long.

Tldr: Somer kinda sucks after the nerfs and summoning changes. What would you do to make him better?

I'm not normally a big fan of shiny finishes but the glistening blood effect on the horse is super striking and on the whole the rider looks crazy sinister. Very well done! One of my favourite interpretations of the model for sure!

I would certainly be interested in hearing how it goes!

It wasn't very balanced in M2e so I don't think that it being a bit wonky is a problem in M3e, either since that's simply not the mindset one should have when playing it. So sounds good to me!

On 8/9/2022 at 5:41 PM, santaclaws01 said:

But the reason for that is we know the returned master has Nephilim in the keyword, and from the models we've seen is likely a Nephilim themselves(pretty much unless the master is that orrery looking construct).

I believe we can see a normal and title version in the pics since there's two models that are obviously the same character - one tall and lanky, one more brutish and hulking but both have the same horns and the same necklace.

Though now that I say that, I suppose it's kinda possible that they would turn into one another in game through Replace and would be a Henchman or Totem or something. But seems extremely unlikely.

21 hours ago, Ozzac said:

The GG3 schemes and strategies seem to reward cheap minions in some circustances, so maybe that could be a way to make them more playable.

So far it hasn't really been working for me. The old good Minions are perhaps a bit better than they were previously but the ones that weren't really used still aren't good.

For example, in Guard the Stash, I took a lot of cheap models since it's a game of numbers. What ended up happening was that the more elite models of my opponent killed my unactivated cheap models thus gaining activation advantage and he was able to clear the markers on his last activations which had the ability to move my models. And on subsequent turns our numbers were equal except his models were better quality.

Maybe Skulker Skin isn't actually the gremlin with the gun but is actually the Skin they're wearing that has been reanimated through necromancy! 

(A bit like Bo Peep is actually the pig and her rider is just some random nameless Gremlin...)

On 8/6/2022 at 11:48 PM, Mindbadger said:

There is already an Outcast/Rezzer master (Jack Daw) and an Outcast/Bayou master (Zipp), which would mean that it kind of should be Outcast/Explorer's for one of the keywords, which would leave Bayou/Rezzer as the last one. Not sure how Angler would fit in Rezzer until we see more models, but unless they want to repeat shared factions, that is how I see things playing out.

Angler in Ressers would also be weird since they would be getting two new Masters then (presupposing that the vampire Nephilim are Resser like Gwyll).

So yeah, it's a proper mystery!

18 hours ago, Johannes Schmitt said:

How does Wise Words of Wisdom work exactly?
It's a trigger that's caused by a model gaining fast again, each model can receive healing only once a turn. It sounds pretty strong to me giving "+2 healing pulses" every turn. At the cost of cancelling the glowy token I get.

It isn't a Trigger (in the sense that Malifaux uses the term) but rather a global effect that is active as long as Wong2 is around. And it works once per activation per model, not once per turn. But since you get Glowy by damaging your own dudes it mostly just mitigates the damage you do to yourself. So it is powerful yes but not crazy as such.

One quite useful additional purchase would be the Bayou Starter Set. Bo Peep offers great healing and handy self-damage for Glowy (through her Race Is On and its Full Contact Trigger) and Fluffernutter has Carrot Cake Quake for easy Pulse Damage into Glowy.

I've been concentrating Z2 more on evasion and scoring as opposed to beating but I do think that the principle sounds solid on getting the Move + Focus on a couple of beaters. Swamp Mother could be one possible choice as her damage track really benefits from Focus a lot.

As for the Gators, I'm maybe in the minority here but I really don't like them much. The 0" reach and 5 Wds tends to make them extremely delicate instruments that can rather easily die without accomplishing anything. Disguised makes them sturdier (or rather, the opponent often needs to dedicate a bit more resources to dispatching them) but at 7 points they make very enticing targets so I dunno.

If you do end up testing them, I would be very interested in hearing your results, though!

As for Z1 vs Z2 I feel that the real difference is whether the opponent utilizes Markers or not. Z2 gets an immense boost if there's Ice Pillars or Pyres or Pylons or whatnot for her to munch on. Summoning Effigies is also really quite powerful simply due to how durable they are.

The king of passive damage is hiding in the Dead Man's Hand: Ramos.

His schtick is that he Summons Constructs, blows them up into a 2 damage Pulse that turns them into an Electrical Creation that they then blow up into a 2 damage Pulse that creates another 2 damage Pulse when they die.

Now, whether that's fun to play against is another question entirely  

36 minutes ago, Adran said:

I would need to check the configuration more carefully, but I expect it to work in any crew that hire a dabbler ( or other witness). 

There is some interesting options on the card, between the natural card cycle, ranged scheme marker dropping, marker removal, movement as a bonus action. I think they are good in witness, but not sure how much they are for wizz bang except for the counter tech. I

Here you go:

Since it's an Arcanist Upgrade, I would think that you wouldn't be able to take it. Now, I think that the intent might be that Configuration would still be usable in Wizz-Bang (though without the Conduit Ability from the Upgrade) but RAW I'm not sure.

So, the new Dabblers are Wizz-Bang as well as Witness.

What do you think?

My first question is: do they lose Configuration? The Upgrade is limited to Witness crews and is Arcanist so does that mean that they actually cannot use the Configuration based stuff on their card?

As for the model itself - on a first glance I don't really see a place for it in Wizz-Bang even if Configuration works - it's not horrid or anything but it's a fine five-cost Minion which means that it probably won't see play. If Configuration doesn't work, it's incredibly bad.