Math Mathonwy

I don't think that Foul-Mouthed Motivation or HtK fit their theme very well. Would Equality of Fate be too much for them? Or maybe Eavesdrop?

I think that the whole BBS gives everyone Focus and turns into a Mature is a bit much and could really be looked into. I think that simply removing their ability to grow would be fine (and fit the whole Nephilim life cycle thing, as well).

To get the ball rolling: Orderly could be 4SS (and still probably see very little play )

Yeah, Yasunori could certainly be looked at again - they did go overboard with the nerf on him (a nerf was needed but not quite that punishing). Mei1 could use a bit of a boost of some sort. Fuhatsu could be toned down (though care should be taken to not let the Samurai simply overtake him). Kunoichi and Geishas could probably be buffed a bit.

Cadmus and Archivist seem like the most obvious yeah. English Ivan, too. And Emissary/Effigy would affect a lot of the feelsbad-stuff in the faction so those would be my predictions. Alpinist would definitely be good to fix, yeah. I would also like to see Malisaurus Rex to not be so susceptible to being immobilized by an enemy Obey. He's an expensive model and it's a pretty severe weakness that can kinda turn a game on its head pretty easily making him a bit of a liability. Obeys (and similar) aren't all that rare, after all (and he would still be a prime target for them even if fixed). The model that surprises me the most in your list is probably Winston. I mean, I understand that he's pretty good but I didn't know that he was seen as being OP.

That's a good point, I think! It's kinda funny that it's the cheap Minions that I feel should be the most plentiful in each keyword that tend to be the worst of the bunch. If you never see the most bread-and-butter Minions of several keywords, that indeed seems like a real problem. Especially when everyone owns three of each... Flying Piglets are pretty good, IMO. I often take one and sometimes even two with Zipp. Showboating is one of the few keyword abilities that actually rewards hiring cheap Minions to use for hand sculpting (Charge your down dudes and cheat low or use Dazzling Flourish and cheat low). They are relatively mobile and can Scheme and I've got good use out of making opposing big beaters Slow on an occasion. With four Wounds they often survive a hit. They are worth the 3SS in some match-ups.

Arcanists truly are the future!

Digging from the previous errata wishlist thread, the consensus was something like this: Keywords most in need of buffs: Wizz-Bang, Tri-Chi Models in need of buffs: Wong, Lightning Bugs, Wrastlers, McTavish, LaCroix Raiders, Burt Models that could use buffs: Moon Shinobis, Banjonistas Models that could use a downgrade: Rami, Bokor

Since the previous errata really didn't do much to address the problems with Bayou, my wishlist is basically the same as last year (other than hoping something for Somer who was hammered by the previous errata). I doubt that they'll touch titles outside of near-game-breaking stuff but if they did, Somer2 is IMO the title most in need of help (and that's not just in Bayou but in the whole game). He needs an enormous buff or preferably a complete overhaul - his current schtick doesn't fit his keyword at all and I'm absolutely astounded that it came out of playtests in this form - it's downright bizarre. Other than that, original Masters that need help IMO are Wong1 is completely outshined by Wong2 and all in all one of the weakest Masters in the game. Needs quite a bit of help. Somer1 was massively gutted in the last errata. He's super difficult to play, easy to disrupt and yet now doesn't even reward good play being kinda mediocre in the hands of good players in optimal situations and very bad otherwise. Brewmaster1 also needs Lasting Liquor. As for was else needs help Wrastlers (like most cheap beater Minions in this game) are just very bad and there's really no reason to ever take them. They are squishy melee beaters that don't do all that much damage and aren't very mobile. Lightning Bugs are (like most cheap beater Minions in this game) are just very bad and there's really no reason to ever take them. They are squishy ranged beaters that don't do all that much damage and aren't very mobile. I haven't yet had a chance to try LaCroix Raiders with Ophelia2 but previously they were quite bad so my hopes aren't all that high. They are cheap beater Minions... Moon Shinobi are, you guessed it, cheap beater Minions that could use some help. Wizz-Bang could really use some more help, in general. Gupps are entirely useless now. They used to be nice enough summons but with GG2 they aren't good there anymore, either. McTavish needs something. Hard to Wound would help a bit. Burt needs something. Which models are probably a bit overtuned Bokors (their card draw could be toned down a bit). Some of the Kin (Rami and Francois most likely).

Some excellent advice from Rufess. The Captain indeed looks like a designer wondered how they could maximally screw over the Kin Though even with the Captain, a straight up brawl us probably a bad idea but rather focus on scoring while avoiding direct confrontation and attacking on your own terms. Luckily that's often the Colette way anyway. When you see the terrain, it's worth taking a look at it from Rami's perspective. He's a very powerful piece with a giant threat bubble and if you can deny him optimal firing lines, that's always good. As a general thing, you can often get activation advantage against Ophelia by taking out Young LaCroix who haven't activated yet. They are super squishy while providing good movement so removing them is usually a good idea in any case. Especially nice if you can take them out through Blasts or such.

I don't find big numbers exciting in and of themselves so I guess that part of the criticism doesn't hit home for me. I feel that Masters in 3e feel more different from one another than in 2e due to their more focused design and (especially) the keyword mechanics. To me, the wow effects would be something like Dreamer messing up with his deck or Titania filling the board with Underbrush which are both tied to the keyword but they still feel like effects the Master brings to the game. Now, that said, there are definitely mechanics that have been toned down - Brewmaster for example is quite a bit less extreme than his 2e version (though for the better, I think), so I'm not saying that you're completely wrong or anything like that. As for the title box packaging - I feel that it is quite a difficult question for Wyrd to be able to release a title for every Master and keep the number of SKUs to a manageable number. I think that the current solution is fine, though I certainly do understand the criticism of it. And Morgan's suggestion does sound good. Personally, when it comes to "useless" minis, I'm more miffed by the number of Minions with three sculpts that you never ever put more than one in your comp (if even that).

Fully agreed! The suggestion of just removing effects often makes the minis look really weird since the effect is a central part of the design. As it should be, mind you! If you put in effects, they really shouldn't be an optional afterthought but rather the mini should be "reacting" to them. Which naturally makes it very difficult to remove them. The other argument of just "git gud" essentially is, I suppose, fair enough, but it isn't very helpful, I feel.

Is it just me or are those tables super sparse when it comes to terrain?

What is people's opinions on the effects on minis? I mean the sculpted on smoke and flames and magical effects an such? Because it seems that the new Masters are getting more of them and I'm not the biggest fan. Looking at the upcoming page, there's quite a few minis with big effects coming: https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases Viktorias and Redcaps for example have these giant weapon strike effects that seem especially unnecessary. First of all, I worry about how it's going to turn out in starter PVC. And in Viks case one of the effects seems to be kinda detached and just flaming there in the general vicinity. Yan Lo has a fine effect on his underside, I think, but then there's these giant play-dough stacks of smoke billowing around that really don't enhance the look IMO. The best-looking and most theme-fitting effects are on Pandora in my opinion. Those really fit and look good. (As an aside, damn Dorian Crowe looks like a fantastic mini!) I can understand the point in making the Masters stand out more with effects (McCabe doesn't look very "Masterly") but I feel that it's going a bit overboard. Looking at the art, it seems that they are making all the effects present in the art into the renders as well and there's a lot of that! But yeah, my main issue here is that painting the effects to look good is really difficult and often the effects themselves look really cheap and not good at all (Viks and Ulix as prime examples, though I think that the wings on Kaeris look the worst). What do you fine forum people think of this trend? (Oh, and what on earth is going on with Hamelin's bag strap? Is the rat lighter than air and pulling the bag upwards?)

I would be very surprised if all the possible dual Master options were tested even once let alone consistently in the beta - there's simply too many. I kinda expect the dual Master format to lose even more popularity in more serious competitive environments now that the number of Masters has been doubled. There's bound to be quite a few utterly broken combos hidden in there that really don't belong in tournaments.

With the new titles out, I don't think that DHM is too powerful with the possible exceptions of Collodi. Oh, and Ryle is pretty crazy. But Nico most certainly doesn't look too powerful when compared to many of the new Resser titles.

Oh yeah! Good point! Also, for @Aaron Martin, I feel that Brewmaster has a bit of a learning curve but rewards good play and is surprisingly versatile so a fine choice for starting Bayou. He also prefers staying in keyword for the most part so that kinda balances out some of the difficulty inherent to collecting his big keyword. I think that the only non-Tri-Chi model that I've used with Brewski is Trixiebelle and she's by no means mandatory.

Brewmaster is a bit annoying to collect in that his keyword is big and he kinda wants one Tanuki and one Akaname (possibly two but I've never felt the need) so if you can find someone to share those boxes with you it would be ideal. Tanuki should be easy to share with Ten Thunders players, though as one is lovely to have but three is just silly.

Have to agree with Adran that there's plenty of other situations where Concealing can be an annoyance (Infamous is another example). Now, I do agree that I usually try to ensure that Master AP actually do something so I wouldn't very often Parade Night Terrors without access to a positive modifier and I wouldn't be devastated if Parade was made to ignore Concealing but "game breaking" seems like a somewhat extreme description of the situation.

It can also get stuck if the opponent has Obey. Wp4 into Tail Whip and Territorial and it's 10SS that's sitting still.

Now that the titles have been out for a while - who is your favourite? Play experience and on paper speculation are both welcome! My criteria for a successful title are Mechanically interesting and fun to play Equally powerful with the original version A different playstyle from the original that works in different situations Empowers new aspects of the keyword Your criteria can be something else. And especially I can see the second one being different for different people - if the original version is very weak then it could be seen as a good thing for the title version to be significantly better. Especially since that would leave room for errata to fix the original. OTOH in the case of weak keywords it might mean that if the keyword gets "fixed" then the results might get too powerful - a difficult subject where several view points can be valid! But to answer the original question - my favourite title is Zoraida. Her playstyle seems very versatile and a lot of fun. I feel that she is powerful but doesn't overshadow the original and offers a very different playstyle and her buffs can empower new Swampfiends. The original Zoraida loves superstar beaters while the new one prefers her keyword. And she summons Effigies giving new life to many of them as well. Now, this is of course also somewhat problematic in that collecting all the stuff she can summon is silly expensive if you want the whole collection. I happened to have quite a good amount of Effigies courtesy of my Collodi force but will still be missing a couple but such is life, I guess. But yeah, she seems like an ideal title to me. Who is your pick?

Wasn't Paralyze removed basically due to people finding it NPE? In fact, I think that NPE stuff is the main difference in "balancing" for casual vs competitive and rather important. I mean, I'm not sure how casual players could be adversely affected by balance errata aimed at competitive play but ignoring NPE since it isn't winning tournaments is a thing that could affect casual play. As for errata schedule - I heard tell of Kirai2 summoning 15-19SS worth of models four turns straight in a game. Now, maybe this is balanced but if it isn't, at the current pace she would be like this until 2023. And I mean, I feel that it would be a complete miracle if the titles didn't have any OP stuff. If the errata schedule will be made more frequent I feel that then there's more hope for errata and I would most heartily welcome it.

Well, the point of the post was to harbor discussion - I'm very interested in what people's opinions are. Would pre-nerf Von Schtook or Colette or Yan Lo feel out of place power-wise in the Explorers-and-titles world? Is the current errata style going to work? And yeah, on average the titles probably aren't stronger. But I think that the most powerful titles are as strong or stronger than the pre-nerf old Masters so were the nerfs really needed? And I'm not 100% sure of my own stance on the matter! As I said, I loved the errata! But I'm having some doubts and would be very interested in hearing opinions. And the discussion so far has been very interesting, I think.

I really loved the last errata. Felt like it balanced the game a ton. But they didn't touch Explorers and now they released the titles. I feel that the power level of the game took a big jump with these latest two books and I'm not at all convinced that the old Von Schtook or Yan Lo would've been somehow too powerful for the new normal. So to me it kinda feels that the last errata (that I loved!) kinda just made a couple of Masters kinda less appealing for no reason. And of course I'm just talking about the nerfs in the last errata - the McCabe and Youko reworks, for example, were really really good regardless of whatever else happened. Finally, I wonder if there will be errata anymore. Balancing the fifty new Masters seems like an exercise in futility. Do you think Wyrd will even try or is Malifaux now beyond the scope of erratas?

Oof, that softness of details is pretty bad, yeah. The more recent Zombicide character models actually look sharper, I think. Kirai's face looks just really bad. I did order the Bayou Starter but kinda dreading how it'll look, now 😬 Have to agree that with these prices and the Wyrd pedigree this really isn't what I'm looking for.