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Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/03/2018 in all areas

  1. 11 points
    There you go Round 1: OSL Participants: 249 Submitions : 176 DNF (29%) : 73 Round 2: Water, Water Everywhere Participants: 176 (16 Gold, 16 Silver, 144 Bronze) Submitions : 131 (16 Gold, 15 Silver, 100 Bronze) DNF (25%) : 45 ( 0 Gold, 1 Silver, 44 Bronze) Round 3: Stranger Things Participants: 82 (8 Gold, 16 Silver, 58 Bronze) Submitions : 67 (8 Gold, 13 Silver, 46 Bronze) DNF (10%) : 15 (0 Gold, 3 Silver, 12 Bronze) Eliminated : 22 Round 4: Murphy's Law Participants: 46 (4 Gold, 12 Silver, 30 Bronze) Submitions : 42 (3 Gold, 12 Silver, 27 Bronze) DNF (9%) : 4 (1 Gold, 0 Silver, 3 Bronze) Eliminated : 28 Round 5: SnowPocalypse Participants: 29 (2 Gold, 8 Silver, 19 Bronze) Submitions : 28 (2 Gold, 8 Silver, 18 Bronze) DNF (3%) : 1 (0 Gold, 0 Silver, 1 Bronze) Eliminated : 36 Total Projects: 530 (Round 1 176, Round 2 131, Round 3 89,Round 4 70, Round 5 64)
  2. 8 points
    Here's my group shot for this year. I had lots of fun working on all of them. I think that's a neat thing with this contest -- that you end up doing things you never would have done otherwise. Going in to round one I had at least half a dozen ideas picked out, just waiting for a theme that was close enough. Of course in the end I used ZERO of those ideas
  3. 8 points
    Loving the group shots - here is mine!
  4. 7 points
    I guess I'm hopping on the bandwagon, but I swear I planned to do this since round 1 (you all just beat me to it!). It definitely took some extra effort doing separate text for each piece, but I think it looks nice. Every round was really stressful but also really inspirational. I look forward to coming back next time.
  5. 6 points
    Here's my compilation. Sorry it's blurry. But it is just meant for an overview anyway.
  6. 5 points
    no cup of Russian tea -already packed to send it to a friend as a gift
  7. 5 points
    here's a little break from all the ruleslawyering, I've done a group shot of all my entries this year. Hope you enjoy! @TheArtofWargaming, @Octavus, @SallyFN and @Joe Cool you've all been great opponents so I'd like to thank you all for making this Iron Painter an extremely enjoyable experience!
  8. 3 points
    An unboxing and review of Talos for the Outcast faction...more pictures, assembly tips and a rotational view can be found via the link... http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/unboxing-malifaux-talos.html
  9. 2 points
    So I finally finished my table. I decided to create some extra storage at the same time and actually made it two bookcases and two hanging shelves. The bookcases go back to back and latch together to create a 37" square play top (was afraid to try and make it exactly 36" in case I screwed up somewhere - this worked out as it gave me room for the hanging hooks I decided to go with for the play shelves). The shelves can hang from any side of the table, so it's easier to move your stuff if you want. Could have saved a bit of money if I had used plywood, but I don't have a table saw and I hate trying to get them to cut at the store. My tools are limited as well, so not all the joints are as flush as I'd like, but a little wood putty and everything seems to be good. There are a ton of pocket screws on this thing. Felt pads on the bottom let me slide it on the floor very easily. Last minute I made a couple of quick hanging cup holders as well that work great. Broke it in yesterday with a game of Yan Lo vs Asami. Glad to say I won and Yan Lo beat Asami into the ground Only the second time I've beat that opponent, but he was a bit out of practice. Here's a link to a few pictures. Need to get a few more. 12/31 - Added a few more pictures of the hooks I used, the holes they sit in, and the cup holder. I really like the holes for the shelves as it means they can't slide side to side when on the table. They are through bolted in a 1x3 board across the back of the top of each shelf. https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkfXqHIwwjCDgp1g1cM0x0LFFRSs6w
  10. 2 points
  11. 2 points
    A pirate is never afraid ... oops ... i accidently revealed his true nature
  12. 2 points
    Actually got around to snapping pics last night. This will likely be my last post in the 2017 painting challenge threads as I move onto the 2018 ones. Final tally is 95 minis painted in 2017. This challenge was a very large part of reaching that number!
  13. 2 points
    Hard to say. I just painted them so I wanted to use them. They seem nice in symbols because they force the enemy to play defensive, especially tha Hoffman can quite easily Leap+walk+puppet them to take down a marker after a double-walk. The reason I like the miner over a second watcher (I don`t own 3) is that 1) Miner is more independant, its Ml6 with an ok damage track and prevents if needed which means it can kill opposing scheme runners. Watchers won`t disengage from anything if they get caught. 2) They force your opponent to play very defensive because you can quite easily take down a marker T2
  14. 2 points
    and you probably wont. its a reference to his round 2 entry. The small CCCP submarine inside a cup of vodka...
  15. 2 points
    Man, this made me think of a player I have not gamed with in some time as he would go into that office and try to play hardball with Lucius over the contract. Likely to have his character never seen again but he would have thought he could get away with it.
  16. 2 points
    9 winners from Bronze = 45 Raffle Tickets. Plus 36 Eliminated painters who finished all 5 Rounds is 81 tickets. Then add in the Eliminated from Bronze in Rd 5 and we have 90 total raffle tickets. Taken over the course of 10 raffle drawings each single ticket has an 11.71% chance of winning. So everyone who survived in Bronze has a 58.55% chance of winning the Raffle while everyone who was Eliminated but finished all 5 Rounds has a 11.71% chance. It's been an honor to compete alongside you all. I've been extremely impressed by your work. Live Long and, May the Odds Be, Ever in Your Favor. So Say We All.
  17. 2 points
    Registration update for Capital City Meltdown! I am happy to now offer a 50% off discount for players who have never attended a two-day Malifaux GT before! This offer is limited to 10 people. In addition, there will be a special award, The Golden Scorpius, for the highest placing finisher who is competing in their first Malifaux GT. For more information about the event, check out the link below. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_RAzTc71dOfOmC1LXUYkrvK_X78TILkzRoVp14p0HjU/edit?usp=sharing
  18. 2 points
    As per your request, @Whirler, here's a quick group shot! After 3 years of Iron Painter (and 15 completed entries!) I am running out of display case room. If I'm feeling ambitious later, I may even see if I can fit all 15 entries into one picture!
  19. 2 points
    I am going to start 2018 by trying out the SS assigned to terrain. Need to make some progress on the spider factory board. The transfer pipes are WH40k, and the chemical plant is from Pegasus. I am going to turn the chemical plant into 2--3 smaller pieces so different than what is on the box. I will measure the pipes and try to assign values for challenge. The other will need to be assembled before I can try this. Happy New Year everyone!
  20. 2 points
    Since my family is about to get bigger, I will start off with these 4 rather straightforward models as I should be able to paint them this month:
  21. 1 point
  22. 1 point
    Looking to offload some Malifaux models and cards. PM for pricing (listed/OBO), trades and pics. Trades are listed at bottom. All primed models are assembled. All items include cards unless otherwise stated. I am USA so I can check for international Shipping but it's usually quite expensive. Shipping in-country is usually $5 depending on how much is bought. Mercury - NoS ($20) Flying Doves (Colette's Totems) - Assembled ($10 for all) Firestarter - primed white ($5) Howard Langston - painted and based ($15) Death Marshal - Pro Painted ($25) Metal Carver (alt Killjoy)- Assembled ($35) Miss Deed - assembled ($25) Johanna - NoS ($25) Metal Ronin - Primed black ($7) 2 Wokou Raiders (NoS) - ($12) Bunraku x1 - assembled ($6) Moon Shinobi x2 - painted and based ($5 each) Sloth - NoS ($8) Greed - NoS ($8) Gluttony - painted and based ($15) Random items: Guilders ($4 per point) Lamps ($15) Crossroads Story Encounter Random Arcanists, TT, Outcasts cards and upgrades Wave 5 upgrades - Arcanists and select TT --------- Willing to trade or buy: Master Queeg Mysterious Emissary Goryo x1 Titania's Knights and Gorar
  23. 1 point
    Greetings There is a 50ss three round tournament near me in a couple of months that I'm thinking about attending. I'm still ultra new to playing the game so the purpose would simply be to turn up, play some games, have a laugh and not totally embarrass myself or ruin the experience for my opponents. I've played a few Henchman Hardcore games and some 35ss games but not 50ss yet. My plan would be to pick a crew now, get some practice games in before the event and hopefully be competent enough to play three games without needing to constantly ask about rules and whilst I don't expect to win I'd like to be able to at least give my opponents some semblance of an actual game. Nothing worse than travelling to an event and getting drawn against the guy who has no clue how to even play the game. I'd rather not go than be 'that guy'! All we know so far is that it's a 3 round event using GG 2017 allowing wave 4 models. Yeah, means nothing to me really but there you go. I have some Gremlins, Ten Thunders and Outcasts in my collection (don't have the list with me but can provide it later tonight if it helps). What I'm trying to build is a crew that is easy to learn in two months rather than a tournament winning killer list. As stated more than once I just don't want to be the guy who ruins anyone's experience on the day. I've come up with: Von Schill (Oath Keeper, Survivalist, The shirt comes off) Student of Conflict Taelor (Oath Keeper) Freikorps Librarian Freikorps Specialist (Oath Keeper) Freikorps Trapper Freikorpsman Now this is because I'm led to believe that Schill is a good box to start with even if he is not considered a top tier master. I have all those models but not all the Oath Keeper cards. I should be able to borrow cards and possibly buy/borrow models if necessary but please bear in mind that squeaking every last competitive advantage out of the list isn't necessary because my lack of skill will negate that. I'm more interested to know if there is a better 'starter' list or anything in that list is really out of place or counter productive. Maybe you have a different list that is more beginner friendly that you would advise using instead? I will have time to study the rules and two of my local group have already offered to play 'teaching' games with me to try and get me ready. It doesn't hurt to get as much advice as possible before putting a list together to learn from. Any/all advice or comments most welcome.
  24. 1 point
    The Snowpocalypse has finally ended, and you set your brushes down for the final time of Iron Painter 2017! As always we want to thank those of you participating at every level. This time the theme "Snowpocalypse" led to some very cool works. We appreciate all the efforts put in by all over the course of the competition! After you take a couple of deep breaths, make sure you go vote for this very last time! Again you will only be voting on the bronze submissions. Make sure to read this and the information below before you head over to the polls. A reminder that our gold and silver voting will be handled by our esteemed panel of judges. If you want to take a look at the awesome entries though head on over to the galleries! Gold: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/gallery/category/70-round-5-snowpocalypse-gold-finished/ Silver: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/gallery/category/71-round-5-snowpocalypse-silver-finished/ Bronze: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/gallery/category/72-round-5-snowpocalypse-bronze-finished/ For bronze the voting will be handled via the Round Five Voting - Poll. There will be a link at the bottom of this post. We have attached images for each entry, and all you have to do is choose your favorite out of EACH head to head pairing. Feel free to use the gallery link above to get a closer look at each of the submissions. There was a single repairing due to a DNF. Dlenok is now paired against Jason13. You can also check out those who were eliminated, but continue to paint on here: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/gallery/category/73-round-5-snowpocalypse-eliminated/ Below is a list of DNFs/Drops for this round. If you feel you are incorrectly on this list PM me. SevenThirtySeven If you made it to this point, that means you are ready to vote! Head on over to the polls: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/133613-round-five-voting-poll/
  25. 1 point
    Challenge accepted, I’m thinking of making a printout that can just be glued or taped to cheap bicycle cards, construction paper or something of similar size.
  26. 1 point
    well, it's fourth IP for me and getting 21 entries (first one had 6 rounds) into a single shot might be somewhat tricky
  27. 1 point
    Might be my mistake, but I think @Hound Grey‘s listed pledge category might be wrong - though the SS # appears correct. I think he pledged Master, no?
  28. 1 point
  29. 1 point
    Wow, Paul7926, you are an extremely considerate player. If there's a Best Sportsperson award in the tournament, I'd think you would be a top favourite. Remember that even if you're a newer player, if you meet the minimum eligibility requirements, you're just as entitled to be there as anyone else. Plus, if any of your opponents are ruthlessly competitive, they'd probably like the fact that you're less experienced than some of the other players. So in that sense, you're doing them a favour, and they don't have a right to get excessively impatient with you. If you have to look up a rule once or twice midway, at least that means you're not likely to instinctively know how to counter whatever Awesome Tournament Winning List they have put together. I gather you must use the exact same list in all three rounds? From a financial and new models to paint to "tournament quality" point of view, I just wonder why you haven't included all of the models from Von Schill's box over buying additional models? If you had both Freikorpsmenn minions and the Steam Trunk totem anyway, why not throw them in instead of having to buy the Student of Conflict or Taelor? That is, of course, unless you already happen to have the Student and Taelor anyway? Caveat: this "advice" comes from a complete n00b, who has not yet played a single game. So it requires a massive grain of salt, like the margarita glasses about which Milton was going to "put strychnine in the guacamole" at the end of Office Space.
  30. 1 point
    Hey Wyrdos, I've been playing Malifaux since first edition, circa book 2. I took something of a hiatus and stopped keeping up with it in 2015, but since Fall 2017 I've been getting back into the Malifaux habit and I'm surprised at how complicated the game has become. So, in order to help me process, and get some feedback/help/angry yelling from the community, I offer Some Rambling Observations from an Old Man of Malifaux Does he justly fear what he can't understand, or is he simply past his prime? First of all, Book 5. Wow. * Holy upgrades, Batman! While some of these I absolutely LOVE (Seamus, Von Schill), others are... um... potentially insane (Perdita, Misaki) or actually insane (Tara), and a vast number seem like they're just trying to encourage a sub-optimal line of play (Leveticus?). I'm all about breathing new life into old models, but not at the expense of making the game feel tedious to play. * Seriously, this version of Tara is more complex than Leveticus was in 1.5. * "They're just trying to break the game at this point so they can sell 3.0." --My Cynical Side * PLUS COLUMN: I love all the new story encounters! * Also, remember Linked Story Encounters? No? Trust me, those were great. They're back in Book 2 somewhere, I think. And what's with all this newfangled tournament stuff? * Gaining Grounds 2017 was highly favorable to Hamelin players and highly unfavorable to the Guild in general. Hopefully 2018 will let folks bring a Lady Justice crew to a tournament and not feel like they're swimming against the current. * Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but Molly can look at hidden Schemes now? How on earth is GG 2018 going to account for this? Limited Master pools? Seasons? Formats? Bannings? Nothing? * How about selling us a Tournament Kit? For real. Deck of Fate Cards + Scheme Markers + 20XX Gaining Grounds Cards + Corpse/Scrap Markers + Any Markers relevant to Gaining Grounds + A Commemorative Tape Measure, all in a neat little zip-up bag? This game has a lot of paraphernalia, and it would be nice to have some help organizing it. Not mandatory help, mind you - don't force us to use official Wyrd plastic markers in tournaments, please. So how does it FEEL? * Between 2015 and today, Malifaux is a different experience. It's still good, but it's gotten a lot more time-consuming, and there are a lot more "GOTCHA!" moments (which I expect, given my lack of familiarity with some of this newer stuff, but this is true even for people who have been regularly keeping up with the game). There are some fun new rules in the mix (I love Von Schill's new upgrades, and Misaki's blasts make her a whole new experience), but on the whole, I'm not certain if the new rules make for a better game. * Proxies are everywhere, and it's getting very difficult to know, at a glance, what's on the other side of the table. Whoops - I mean Alternative models, not proxies. Don't get me wrong, I love the variety of models in Malifaux, and most of the alt sculpts are great, but I can't help but feel like they're working against the experience of the game by making the game more visually confusing. With a growing emphasis on larger crews, keeping track of 5-7 of your opponent's goofy-lookin' things is a lot different than keeping track of 10-15 of them. Combine this with the growing number of new models, and learning how all these things interact with one another becomes exponentially more time consuming. * Every faction can do everything, now, thanks to Book 4. This puts Book 4 models in an interesting place, as tournament players and casual players alike want to field them to shore up their Faction's weaknesses. Good for short term sales, but bad for long term game balance. Playing against Lilith now feels like playing against Colette two years ago. Again, this isn't bad, but it's definitely different. * I haven't played against Yasunori yet, but I hear it's painful. * Gremlins seem more than capable of mitigating the downsides that come with playing the "wild luck" faction. Not always, but I'm hearing people talk about Wong and Zipp in the same way they used to talk about Hamelin and Dreamer back in the 1st Edition days. Maybe that's my local meta, but Gremlins get a strong reaction: you either love 'em or hate 'em. They're not quite as polarizing as, say, Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Tau, but they definitely get a strong gut reaction. So, what's the point of all this sputterin' and putterin' and complainin'? I'm noticing a shift toward quantity over quality. I don't like it. Quality over quantity is why I started playing Malifaux in the first place. I could play a super fun game with six cowboys, a book, a tape measure, some tokens, and an hour. I wanted to get away from games that pushed a relentless release schedule into an over-crowded metagame (Warmahordes, I'm looking at you) or published rules that made it absolutely necessary to buy arm-loads of books and models before you could enjoy their games (cough, Games Workshop, cough). Malifaux is a robust and complex game that rewards careful observation and tactical thinking. It benefits from having an engaged community that loves its quirks and foibles, and that actively promotes it. Wyrd made itself accountable to its fans when it opened up Beta testing for 2.0, and that accountability helped create a game that tournament grinders and perpetual casuals alike could enjoy. Malifaux such a consistently interesting experience! However, Book 4 and Book 5 seem, to me, short-sighted. Wyrd is starting to prioritize selling sweet new model kits/books/upgrade packs over making the game more balanced, enjoyable, and accessible, and like we've seen time and time again from more established companies (Games Workshop, Privateer Press), I'm worried that the community will react negatively (or worse, passively!) to unfavorable changes. If we, as a community, are aware of this, and we use our voices wisely, we can keep Malifaux awesome. That said, my apprehensions have now been aired, and I'm eager to see what 2018 brings. I'll definitely be playing more Guild next year, and I'm looking forward to seeing the madness unleashed by Book 5, good and bad alike. I hope I'm wrong about Tara and Molly being no fun, and that Wyrd doesn't forget that, cool as the models are, it's the game itself that keeps us coming back for more. *** tl;dr: When you take a bite of grilled cheese sandwich but you're expecting a cheeseburger, it can leave you feeling like someone's made a mistake, no matter how good the grilled cheese actually tastes.
  31. 1 point
    Unfortunately, I think that what WE as players would mostly like from a M3E (some rule adjustments and character/faction fine-tuning) is not what Wyrd would (should) like. Remember that Wyrd is still a miniature company, and a for-profit institution, and what a miniature company needs, is to sell miniatures. Special sculpts, books etc. can be a side, but can't keep the circus running by themselves, unless I'm thoroughly mistaken. So adjusting rules and characters, or in general most of the proposals that I've read in this thread, would do little, I believe, for Wyrd's future profitability. Since I agree that adding any more models to the current edition would bloat it excessively (IMHO we're already at the limit), the most viable option to me seems adding a new faction or two, composed of entirely new models, or remastering (splitting, joining, rearranging) current factions. This way people would really have reason to buy a relevant number of miniatures. After all, this is what happened with Warhammer, which I take as reference as one of the oldest, longest-standing mini games out there (until its recent, tragic demise ): at various points in time, chaos was split into three, undead were split into two, etc. and then new "factions" were added like Ogres, for instance. In fact, current fluff suggests some of this already, with the rivalry Ramos-Ironsides perhaps suggesting a faction split, and perhaps some faction changes (McMourning, Zoraida et al.), plus several others (Von Schill was a close one!) The other option is that The Other Side could have an unexpected success (at least, unexpected from my point of view - I'm not a big fan), bringing in some serious cash, which would mean that Wyrd wouldn't need to rely on Malifaux to make money and could actually dedicate to improving it, balancing it etc. This is also similar to what happened with 40K (which quickly even surpassed the original WHFB, and by far), except that I hope Malifaux won't get the same neglect that WHFB got from GW. I agree that current issues with under/over powered models and other fine-tuning are being dealt with erratas, and now with the app it is really easy to keep track of these changes without needing new physical cards.
  32. 1 point
    Total SS painted by monthly challenge painters in 2017: 6,070 SS ! Amazing work everyone! Thanks for making this a great year.
  33. 1 point
    I usually just name the session after the Destiny Step and toss it out there right from the start. This lets the player being focused on for the session realize that they are in the spotlight, which informs their decisions going forward for the session. This also signals to the other players that the session's focus is on so-and-so, allowing them to move into a more supportive role for the session (from a roleplaying perspective).
  34. 1 point
    Here are the executioners - I might want to work a little on their masks and weapons, adding further highlights Which one do you like the best?
  35. 1 point
    I would like to write many good things of my experience with this great tournament. Some quite good Spanish practice when I was in Mexico and needed to buy some things for second round. Second trip when I took everything with me but monster's canister crashed along with camera. How I found pieces of crushed snow imitating glass in my plate. And how I get a very bad flu finally today. But there are also amazing , envying, super talented works of other participants and somehow sense of comradery and friendship with all of you. Thank you to you all
  36. 1 point
    Oh, last round was the hardest... @icatsai your entry is amazing! If you win, I will not upset.
  37. 1 point
    Finally finished. This round should be named 'True Murphy's Law'
  38. 1 point
    Frosty the snowman, he's a frozen water guy, he has no heart and he cannot fart, if he did he'd surely die
  39. 1 point
    All right ... it's on the air ... Conjuring the Storm ... Now I am going to relax and have a drink. 5 rounds of Iron Painter finished ... phew
  40. 1 point
    Happy new year, everyone! Here is my Master level pledge: 3 Matal Gamins (4x3 Pts) The Scorpius (6 Pts) 2 Soulstone Miners (2x6 Pts) Overall pledge points: 30 I wish you all to enjoy your painting challenge!
  41. 1 point
    It might be time for me to paint the first master I got, i.e. Sonnia Criid:
  42. 1 point
    I have another story about poor wisps misfortune. I bet it happened with almost everyone:
  43. 1 point
    I have tried a couple ways, often with in the same campaign so they cannot predict it plus find out which way I like best for a group. I did find if I let them know right up front in some way that some of them tend to go through the game thinking about what they will do with their destiny rather than focusing on the at hand as much so I am still experimenting. I have given the players who have a fate coming up a piece of paper before hand with a bit of a lead up *a dream about their family, a bird falling dead at their feet when they left their place, an eerie half said word on the wind*. I have just said who's fate was up at the beginning. I have not told them at all and let them know when a moment keys in *when a certain scene is their fate* or let them know afterwards that the event matched their Fate. I have to admit I like not having one set way, so it is not always entirely predictable. So you can catch them by surprise or build up the tension by letting them know something is coming. It also lets you kind of craft it to the individual player to try and make it more enjoyable for them.
  44. 1 point
    As a Virologist I have to say... Could be Dengue or West Nile Fever
  45. 1 point
    I am glad that just flu, nor Gillian Barre or encephalitis
  46. 1 point
    As a physician I must inquire if all of you got flu shot this year?
  47. 1 point
    I'm interested in this and look forward to adding Polish to my list on languages in which I can order beers! I hope you award wooden spoons in Poland, or some equivalent!
  48. 1 point
    So, I'm just coming back after some real life situations kept me from playing shortly after Storm of Shadows dropped but back then I would never run my Ressers without Bete Noir, a tradition that is carrying on so far. I find she' just such a great denial tool and I'm finding even more so in 2e. I also have an issue where I find myself taking a Teddy in every Neverborn game but I feel this will go down more as I learn the new models.
  49. 1 point
    Let me be the first to say that what you guys did with the Nicodem vs Lady J story was ballsey and awesome! Killing off main characters is never easy, but it makes for the best kind of storytelling. Keep up the amazing work! ps. Roll on Master Morty 😆
  50. 1 point
    Thx for the comments and really sorry for my bad bad baaaad english. @Adran 'Mauler' must be 'Maul' trigger of Cerberus attacks, and yes for me the table was one of the most important things when build my crew @Lord J I'm a little retard,I was take a lot of photos and at the end of tournament 'clean' my phone deleting all of this for accident... only keep one, R2 vs Mei same table R3, Ice Cavern, you can see the narrow paths, and why I think the game will be easy 13, 12, 11, 11, 11, BJ... @Mrbedlam Nope, Mei player haven't had Vent up, for that he dies so quickly
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