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Question to Backers: How is Through the Breach?


Claymore65

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So, I didn't get to back through the breach (i wasn't aware of it until it was too late), but I'm very interested in the game. I heard that backers have a pdf copy, so they've got a good hard look at the game. What do you guys think? From the little I know, I'm curious about a couple of things:

 

-What kind of advanced classes are there? I remember reading back there would be some freikorps stuff, maybe a witch hunter, death marshalls and more. Can you play a wide variety of characters with only the main book?

 

-If anyone's played it already, how does the whole "only static numbers" thing work out in practice? I'd be GM'ing the game if I get it, and that part sounds intriguing but also strange to me. Does it work out well?

 

-Is it relatively easy to play a construct focused character like Hoffman or Ramos? I recall from somewhere a Tinkerer was a base class, so I figured you could.

 

-In terms of equipment, is there a lot of cool steampunk gadgetry available to characters? Like robot arms and crazy weapons?

 

-What is your favorite part about the game?

 

-What is your least favorite part about the game?

 

Basically, I'm just very curious about the game. Malifaux has a very cool setting, so it would be fun to try a Roleplaying game with it. Thanks.

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So, I didn't get to back through the breach (i wasn't aware of it until it was too late), but I'm very interested in the game. I heard that backers have a pdf copy, so they've got a good hard look at the game. What do you guys think? From the little I know, I'm curious about a couple of things:

 

--snip--

 

Basically, I'm just very curious about the game. Malifaux has a very cool setting, so it would be fun to try a Roleplaying game with it. Thanks.

 

Hey Claymore65,

 

I have the PDF can’t really say too much.  Not because I don't want to, but because I haven’t delved to deep.  I am one of those people that just doesn’t like learning from a PDF, I need an old fashioned hard copy book in hand.    

 

I am an old codger, started gaming (min's) back in 73’ish and can actually remember the original RPG’s (D&D, EotPT, and so on).   So I do have a good grounding in recognizing an RPG that has a good feel.

 

I skimmed through the PDF books, both the Fated Almanac and the Fatemasters Almanac and I can say I liked what I saw. 

 

They definitely have captured the feel of Malifaux and the character generation system is both unique and fun.  From my read-through I think that TtB will be a fantastic and fun game.  But since I haven’t actually played it, I can’t say whether the rules will deliver their promise in actual play. 

 

It is definitely shiny and the engine sounds like a well-tuned race car, but I can’t tell you how it will do in the quarter mile ;).

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I've had a lot of fun with it - there's a whole wealth of narrative space for FMs, the system works pretty smoothly once you get it in play, and there's plenty of malifaux feel to it.

 

We've done caravan guarding, Quarantine Zone hunts, murder investigations, smuggled things (and people), killed witchlings with a spade...

 

There are some advanced classes, with interesting ways of qualifying for them (not just gain XP, pay for it).

 

In terms of playing Ramos-esque people, yes it's doable, but at the start your ability levels are... less than legendary, shall we say. Getting a spider to stay upright all day will take a bit of work. Later on in a campaign though, you'll likely be able to build, power and command all sorts of constructs.

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--If anyone's played it already, how does the whole "only static numbers" thing work out in practice? I'd be GM'ing the game if I get it, and that part sounds intriguing but also strange to me. Does it work out well?

 

 

This is one of the things I am most dissatisfied with. At the low end starting characters can be kitted out (without really even trying) to wade through low level encounters while at the other end, characters will really struggle (Masters are virtually impossible to even hit much less damage substantially). In their defense if I had zero experience with the miniatures game (which was fairly influential in the design) then it might seem normal and not so much of an issue.

 

- What is your favorite part about the game?

 

I really like the ability to use the Malifaux Cards for encounters.

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So, I didn't get to back through the breach (i wasn't aware of it until it was too late), but I'm very interested in the game. I heard that backers have a pdf copy, so they've got a good hard look at the game. What do you guys think? From the little I know, I'm curious about a couple of things:

 

-What kind of advanced classes are there? I remember reading back there would be some freikorps stuff, maybe a witch hunter, death marshalls and more. Can you play a wide variety of characters with only the main book?

 

-If anyone's played it already, how does the whole "only static numbers" thing work out in practice? I'd be GM'ing the game if I get it, and that part sounds intriguing but also strange to me. Does it work out well?

 

-Is it relatively easy to play a construct focused character like Hoffman or Ramos? I recall from somewhere a Tinkerer was a base class, so I figured you could.

 

-In terms of equipment, is there a lot of cool steampunk gadgetry available to characters? Like robot arms and crazy weapons?

 

-What is your favorite part about the game?

 

-What is your least favorite part about the game?

 

Basically, I'm just very curious about the game. Malifaux has a very cool setting, so it would be fun to try a Roleplaying game with it. Thanks.

 

For advanced pursuits I think we have Friekorps, Death Marshall, Grave Servant, Steamfitter, and Tokrage. Although as a GM it recommends that you make additional advanced pursuits if you so wish. This kind of thing is prevalent throughout the whole book, the GM has a whole lot of freedom.

I haven't had a chance to test the static numbers thing yet, but by the looks of it high ranking NPCs will have little difficulty turning a PC party into a puddle of gore and viscera. With rank 10 that assumes the NPC flips a 10 every time, that can be really hard to beat for a PC. It gives a little guideline, that if your PCs need to flip 5 or higher reliably to hit something, that'll be difficult to hit. Also, if they need a 5 or higher to defend, that's a pretty lethal encounter.

It seems pretty straightforward to play a 'construct maker', and I think if you wanted a Marcus-esque character the definition of 'construct' is pretty vague, so it could even apply to things like chimeracy.

I am in love with the options of pneumatic limbs, the whole gear section is wonderful. Everything from gatling guns to blackpowder pistols to naval cannons. There are heaps of cool options.

I think my favourite part of the game is the character creation, the tarot reading is a really fun, fluffy, and organic, way to build a character.

My least favourite part? I'd chalk it up to Malifaux's signature 'vagueness' when it comes to rules. Some rules take a bit of thinking to wrap your head around.

Hope I've been of some help!

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Thanks everyone. You've given me a lot of great information. I guess I was curious about something else as well.

 

Through the Breach is supposed to be more of a "story-telling game". I'm familiar with those myself. However, could I use Through the Breach in a more traditional Adventure style format as well? I love the adventure format, and this games world suits it very well. For example, have the players form a mercenary crew that goes on variety of dangerous jobs. Of course, it all depends on what my players want to do. It sounds like equipment as well as character progression won't be a probllem from that standpoint.

 

I've heard mention that high-level opponents can give players a lot of trouble. While I'm ok with players being unable to truly fight Masters (they're supposed to be the toughest people in Malifaux), how about other tough opponents like Mature Nephilim or Peacekeepers? I think it would be really cool to put Lady Justice into an encounter, and thus have escape be the only option for the Resser player. I also don't want the player completely disrupting the world, so I don't think i'd let them kill a master anyway (though I'd let them kill Leveticus...). However, I think a Mature Nephilim is a perfect component to a tough encounter, so there has to be a balance. Is there a particular reason for this difficulty? I'm afraid I'm not familar with the rules. Do high level opponents simply count as flipping  very high cards (10+), making them very strong unless you flip well?

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I've heard mention that high-level opponents can give players a lot of trouble. While I'm ok with players being unable to truly fight Masters (they're supposed to be the toughest people in Malifaux), how about other tough opponents like Mature Nephilim or Peacekeepers? I think it would be really cool to put Lady Justice into an encounter, and thus have escape be the only option for the Resser player. I also don't want the player completely disrupting the world, so I don't think i'd let them kill a master anyway (though I'd let them kill Leveticus...). However, I think a Mature Nephilim is a perfect component to a tough encounter, so there has to be a balance. Is there a particular reason for this difficulty? I'm afraid I'm not familar with the rules. Do high level opponents simply count as flipping  very high cards (10+), making them very strong unless you flip well?

 

In a nut shell the issue occurs due to the NPC's having a never diminishing, static resolution value added to their stat versus the fated characters variable, diminishing card pool that is communally drawn from. Players do have a personal "Twist deck" for their control hand but this is also a variable and diminishing resource and of course subject to the rules for cheating fate.

 

Using your example of "a Mercenary crew that goes on variety of dangerous jobs", players would likely stumble into stat/ skill choices during character generation that would make most combat's feel trivial (especially at the low end). With players that are actively "gaming" the system, I doubt even a few Mature Nephilim (Enforcers) and horde of Terror Tots (Minions) would pose much trouble for a party at all. Once the fated face a Henchman or higher ranked NPC though combat can definitely begin to feel hopeless (imagine playing the TTG and facing an opponent that flips a constant stream of 9+ to add to their stat).

 

 In my opinion TTB isn't well suited to "traditional adventure style" gaming, its strength lies in the story. If you are running your narratives well enough, the fated should be too terrified to fight.

 

As far as fated characters killing Masters (or more specifically named persona from the TTG) that shouldn't really be an issue (aside from actually managing to do it). Nothing has to stay dead in Malifaux after all! Raise that dead Master up and begin a whole new story arc.

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-If anyone's played it already, how does the whole "only static numbers" thing work out in practice? I'd be GM'ing the game if I get it, and that part sounds intriguing but also strange to me. Does it work out well?

 

-Is it relatively easy to play a construct focused character like Hoffman or Ramos? I recall from somewhere a Tinkerer was a base class, so I figured you could.

 

-In terms of equipment, is there a lot of cool steampunk gadgetry available to characters? Like robot arms and crazy weapons?

 

-What is your favorite part about the game?

 

-What is your least favorite part about the game?

 

1) The static numbers make it feel very gamey, in my opinion. If you're constantly encountering new things in new situations it would be fine, but if you encounter similar things several times (or one thing for an extended period) the outcome is far too predictable. One of my proposed house-rules would be to allow the FM to spend one of his "card points" to raise the effective rank of an NPC for the duration of an action, so that a Minion would become an Enforcer, etc, just to mix things up a bit.

 

2) Not particularly well. The rules for constructs are extremely sparse, and your spell selection extremely limited, so you'll be relying on a lot of experience and a generous FM to get to the point where you can run a small force of constructs (and even then you won't be able to do much else). Meanwhile, your buddies will be effective right from the start.

 

3) No. This is one of my current recurring peeves about the game - there's stats for about a hundred almost-identical guns in the equipment section, and basically nothing else. A gunslinger is just going to choose the best gun they can get in their preferred type, and ignore all the others, and nobody else really cares about the variety, so it's basically wasted space that could have been used on cool steampunk stuff. I'm hoping there will be a lot of gadgetry in a later supplement.

 

4) My favourite thing is the stories it creates. The system is light on rules for the most part, but the setting is so strong that it carries the game with ease. The best gameplay mechanic is character creation, giving you a random spread of stats, skills, a bit of background and a pretty neat prophecy in a really fun and efficient package.

 

5) My least favourite thing is the magic system. I've already derailed one thread with that topic, so I'll start a new one to talk about it in more detail rather than going into it here. 

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3) No. This is one of my current recurring peeves about the game - there's stats for about a hundred almost-identical guns in the equipment section, and basically nothing else. A gunslinger is just going to choose the best gun they can get in their preferred type, and ignore all the others, and nobody else really cares about the variety, so it's basically wasted space that could have been used on cool steampunk stuff. I'm hoping there will be a lot of gadgetry in a later supplement.

 

I would agree that the equipment section is both full and surprisingly sparse. Though I get the allure of firearms (the vast majority of space is dedicated to them) they are not always the best tool for the job (especially when stealth and discretion is required). I would have liked to see a much more robust range of compelling standard options (where there are real decisions) and not the "custom" out what you want method that was utilized.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the biggest thing with this system is that you will need a gaming group that enjoys theme and characters. As an example, I have an old Russian soldier in my group who uses a specific shotgun because it was the one he "fought with in the war" and not "the best one".

 

When you have a group of players who give as much to the narrative as they take, the somewhat permissive ruleset is a HUGE boon. IF your group really sticks hard to minutae in rule language, this system may require a lot of modification or a few more supplements to really be enjoyable.

 

My group is very experimental and is thrilled with the system. I'd like to see some more information on Enchanted/Gearworks stuff but beyond that it is a really solid backbone to work with for a group that likes flexibility (The Firefly/Supernatural system has a lot of similar elements in that regard)

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I think the biggest thing with this system is that you will need a gaming group that enjoys theme and characters. As an example, I have an old Russian soldier in my group who uses a specific shotgun because it was the one he "fought with in the war" and not "the best one".

 

When you have a group of players who give as much to the narrative as they take, the somewhat permissive ruleset is a HUGE boon. IF your group really sticks hard to minutae in rule language, this system may require a lot of modification or a few more supplements to really be enjoyable.

 

My group is very experimental and is thrilled with the system. I'd like to see some more information on Enchanted/Gearworks stuff but beyond that it is a really solid backbone to work with for a group that likes flexibility (The Firefly/Supernatural system has a lot of similar elements in that regard)

 

Apptly put.

 

If I were to continue the theme.  If you and you players like free flowing games (rules-lite or at least not rules-heavy, like FATE, Ubiquity, Savage Worlds, the new Edge of the Empire) and do not get stuck in the weeds.  But rather place narrative and story over rule mechanics, then TTB will be a hit.

 

If, however, you group is the kind that fixates on minutia and thinks D&D, Pathfinder and other rules by the pound games are The It of gaming, you may be disappointed.

 

The magic system itself will need some getting used to if you  are grounded in standard "spell book magic". 

 

Character advancement is also quite different.  And IMO different in a good way that will promote the character narratives much better that a simple “here are experience points have at it” system.

 

All in all if you like a unique, character driven and flexible RPG I think TTB may be it. ;)

 

Of course that is from my read through and not from a position of having actually run it yet,  so YMMV

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The magic system itself will need some getting used to if you  are grounded in standard "spell book magic". 

 

It is a little confusing until you have put together a few spells and cast them a few times. However, a session or two in, and I think the spellcasters of the world will be pretty happy.

 

I do think that Mastered Magia/Immuto are FAR more important for caster characters than the system lets on, considering how Grimoires work. The TTB system is a little non-standard, but it really does an elegant job of letting magic be powerful along relatively linear confines and as a caster improves, it is largely their BREADTH of ability that improves as opposed to the power of any one individual fireball spell.

 

As an example, as your skill and aspects improve you may be able to comfortably tack 1/1/2 on to your favorite fireball spell, but it's not really going to get all that much better than it was when you first got it. What you WILL be able to do is take that fireball you are good with, and keep using it with a new book in your hand which allows you to tear off someone's face and wear it for your own (a delightfully gruesome spell) and THEN fireball your unsuspecting victims with your old school spell.

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I haven't had a chance to test the static numbers thing yet, but by the looks of it high ranking NPCs will have little difficulty turning a PC party into a puddle of gore and viscera. With rank 10 that assumes the NPC flips a 10 every time, that can be really hard to beat for a PC. It gives a little guideline, that if your PCs need to flip 5 or higher reliably to hit something, that'll be difficult to hit. Also, if they need a 5 or higher to defend, that's a pretty lethal encounter.

 

Just want to highlight something, it's not as if the NPC had flipped a ten but rather is the target number (TN) the fated is aiming for. I won't detail all the ranks but let's look at two Fated attacking each other, which is a special case for the usual rules. You add your Acting Value (AV) to your rank to get the overall target number required. So a starting scrapper who is bulging with melee Skills/Aspects has melee 3 plus strength 2 if the Fates were kind during the Tarot reading resulting in an AV of 5. When attacking another Fated (PC) you add the rank (12 I believe for a Fated) to their Defense value. So let's say the defender has an evade of 2 they would have a final Defense of 4. Defense 4 + Rank of 12 gives the attacking Fated a TN of 16. That means our attacker with an AV of 5 for melee skill needs a flip of 11+ to hit the defending Fated PC. Not too easy to do but possible.

 

So when you see a rank for an NPC you add that to the NPC's Acting Value (usually Skill+Aspect) to arrive at a final TN the Fated must reach with their Flip + AV. So a FM would declare a guild guard is hitting my PC with a savage blow. To avoid it I ask for the TN I must reach on my defense flip. The FM will give me a TN based on the NPC's rank and attacking skill and attacking Aspect. I then need to make a flip and add my defense or willpower. If I reach the TN I do not get hit. If I fail to reach the TN the guard has hit me and we would then work out the damage.

 

The difference between trying to reach a TN and assuming an NPC has a flip value is a subtle but significant one. The FM rarely if ever touches the Fate deck. They just declare things happen and we then have to trust or cheat fate to determine the ultimate outcome. Overall the system appears to be a fairly robust one as it permits some altering of NPC 'skills' and 'triggers' to reflect a significant range of special or unique capabilities.

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The difference between trying to reach a TN and assuming an NPC has a flip value is a subtle but significant one. 

In the end, what impact does that subtle difference make? The point was made as if viewing the game from a Malifaux Duel angle........the way that rank system works, hard targets are incredibly hard to deal with because every single duel is very high....they never have a chance to 'flip a BJ' like in Malifaux that opens them up for  a decent shot at them....there is no variable. If you have multiple fated fighting against one powerful foe, there are only so many cards in the deck that will allow the PCs to attack or defend....but the foe always has a reliable high number.

 

The inverse is true....when fighting against a weak enemy, they will never have a high number, nor do they have the potential too....so it becomes an exercise in card-flipping since the PCs will hardly ever fail.

 

So, that subtle difference really means nothing in a fight.

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I don't think it's a problem that Master level (Rank 11) characters are hard to beat. You can relatively easily get to a point where you can land an occasional hit against a TN of 16-17 with a decent card, but actually facing a master down will probably kill half the party until they're late game. 

 

That's perfectly sensible to me, I don't want to play someone that three sessions in can go toe to toe with Lady J. The game is about being a more normal person, not someone who can just ignore danger because they're so powerful.

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My only complaint is that the initial release only really covers playing the game from a "Guild" perspective,.. so to speak. There aren't any rules for playing the things that interest me (ie: Gremlins, Neverborn,..etc) These will likely be released as later edition stuff,.. but still,.. being that Guild is probably my least favorite faction, it makes it hard to want to play.

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I don't think it's a problem that Master level (Rank 11) characters are hard to beat. You can relatively easily get to a point where you can land an occasional hit against a TN of 16-17 with a decent card, but actually facing a master down will probably kill half the party until they're late game. 

 

That's perfectly sensible to me, I don't want to play someone that three sessions in can go toe to toe with Lady J. The game is about being a more normal person, not someone who can just ignore danger because they're so powerful.

 

The problem is that even "late game" parties are going to really struggle against a Master level or higher NPC. As DGraz states there are only so many cards in the Communal fate deck that can succeed. Those cards go quickly while the party is flipping :-fate on damage and having to defend high value attacks. NPC's at the low end are in a similar situation against a fated character who can easily be kitted (it does even require a conscious effort really) to "just ignore danger because they're so powerful."

 

As a "story telling game" TTB will be successful, especially if the FM imparts a sense of fear without resorting to actual combat. As a "traditional" or "combat" system it suffers.

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That was kind of my point - You can't face masters down easily, late campaign you can probably survive a fight with them, and I like that.

 

The communal fate deck also has every player's twist hand to include too, so it's not exactly a normal deck. Every member of the party can hold a good card for the right moment and manage to take down someone powerful, but you can't expect to go punching your way through the guild's upper ranks to take power and never fail a flip.

 

This has always been said to be a narrative system, which to me means that killing everything I meet shouldn't be a great option. Which it distinctly isn't.

 

Not everyone's preference I'm sure, but I was only ever talking about my own opinion.

 

Webmonkey, I'm guessing you're looking forward to those supplements that will open up the non human side of things?

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Well, this might be a crazy suggestion, but maybe the fatemaster should just prepare a separate deck with a more truncated card spread for combats depending on what the crew he is throwing at the opponents contains, just to spice things up a bit. For example, a group of minions could have all cards from 4 to 8, with an enforcer or two change it to 5-9 and so on to give it some real variability, nothing too crazy, but enough variance to keep them on their toes and to add some fail factor to the heftier enemy models.

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Frankly, I like that the real movers and shakers of Malifaux are incredibly difficult to kill. The way characters die also makes the players very difficult to outright kill as well. As my group's Fatemaster, if they wanted to go looking for Pandora to try to kill her, I'd let it play out exactly as the system says. Without preparation, and some surprise and luck, I would allow my players to earn exactly what they asked for.

Then again, my Malifaux is a very very dangerous place, and I've impressed that on my players with no uncertainty, and they are fine with masters being inaccessible from a combat standpoint.

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The way I look at it Masters should be something to Aspire too / Fear... Not something to kill..

 

Sonnia is far more useful as the every prescent fear of execution if you let people find out about your magical power than as this is the big bad guy you are trying to kill. If you encounter her it should be more, how do I get out of here alive than I bash you, you Incerate me.

 

Same with people like Seamus, Seamus is the reason you don't walk the streets at night, not something a Guild superior should ever send you after. He should be the ever present fear in the shadows, not a stated boss fight. By all means have his grisly murders, or even him appear if the group are gettting too cocky, but plan the fights to give them the scare of their lives not kill them.

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So, just want to post up my impression of the game. My group and I (Mako was a part of it, along with some other forum regulars) were involved in the game from the second round of the beta testing right up until the end of the playtest. I ran it, so I don't have the perspective of being a player. But, as a Fatemaster, I loved this game. I've GM'd a few systems now, and for my playstyle this is one of the best. If you're looking for a combat heavy RPG, you can find aspects of it here, but this isn't DnD. Granted, I still want to try a Dungeon Crawling session, just to see what happens... >.>

 

Anyway! One of the things that made this system fun is the fact that, right from the beginning, Mack has it written down that the rules provide a framework and a starting point. This isn't DnD 3.5, which is so numbers heavy that I've seen players get pissed off at the GMs for 'breaking the rules'. The ruleset is flexible. For example, if you find the party is getting through combat too easily, start adding some Enforcer Witchling Stalkers to the combats. Do interesting things with the locations. Put a Witchling at the top of the stairs in a confined space, see how the party reacts when it explodes. (Yes, this happened. Hilariously for me, this happened twice, one after another.) For me, I don't view messing with the Peon/Minion/Enforcer thing as cheating the system, or fixing it. Unless I'm remembering wrong, it's suggested right in the Fatemaster's Almanac to do stuff like this.

 

 

Plus, Malifaux as a setting has some absolutely amazing things to offer in order to have fun with the heads of players. My favorite moment by far was them hunting for an artifact in the Quarantine Zone and running into a little girl. Fifteen minutes of them arguing about what to do with her. They brought her along, and only had it confirmed at the end of the session that she was a Neverborn when she handed them a teddy bear and skipped her way back into the QZ.

 

And as far as tackling Masters... frankly, if your party is looking to do that, they're missing the idea of Malifaux, in my opinion.

 

If you're looking for Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder (in Malifaux!), then no, this system will not be that. If you're looking for any other game type, Star Wars Saga Edition, Iron Kingdoms, World of Darkness, Savage World, whatever...no this system won't be that either. Through the Breach is its own thing. It's got a fairly decent combat system, a really fun character design, a neat magic system...and it's Malifaux. I'll be recommending it all the time. It lets me tell stories that wouldn't fit right in other rulesets, and I love it. The only way I could be happier with it would be to have the expansion books right now, but that won't be happening. :) I'm quite glad that I backed it on Kickstarter, and cannot wait to jump in as a player at some point, it'll be fun to be able to present a perspective as a player.

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Frankly, I like that the real movers and shakers of Malifaux are incredibly difficult to kill. The way characters die also makes the players very difficult to outright kill as well. As my group's Fatemaster, if they wanted to go looking for Pandora to try to kill her, I'd let it play out exactly as the system says. Without preparation, and some surprise and luck, I would allow my players to earn exactly what they asked for.

Then again, my Malifaux is a very very dangerous place, and I've impressed that on my players with no uncertainty, and they are fine with masters being inaccessible from a combat standpoint.

 

 

The way I look at it Masters should be something to Aspire too / Fear... Not something to kill..

 

Sonnia is far more useful as the every prescent fear of execution if you let people find out about your magical power than as this is the big bad guy you are trying to kill. If you encounter her it should be more, how do I get out of here alive than I bash you, you Incerate me.

 

Same with people like Seamus, Seamus is the reason you don't walk the streets at night, not something a Guild superior should ever send you after. He should be the ever present fear in the shadows, not a stated boss fight. By all means have his grisly murders, or even him appear if the group are gettting too cocky, but plan the fights to give them the scare of their lives not kill them.

 

 

Yes exactly.  It actually reminds me of RPG's in the late 70's early 80's.  There were many beings/powers in the worlds that a PC simply was not going to kill or defeat.   Every PC was operating under the realization that there were something s that could not be defeated.  Many times they were not even stat'ed out.   They trend in the last 10 years to apply actual game stats to literally everything, even 'gods', has IMO gotten out of hand. 

 

I really like the idea that it may take 5 or 6 real world years of regularly playing the same PC to create one that can take on a Master one on one.  Or heck maybe never. 

 

And I am 100% liking the non-combat options over just running battle-porn.  I mean that is what games like D&D and Pathfinder are for.  Ugh I kill many now ugh....

 

That was a joke :P

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I actually did an encounter where a modified peacekeeper was knocked broken by a pigapult and the players had to rescue their MSU contract from its flailing. They chose to use the nearby crane that I had placed to grab and trap the thing so they could escape with their contract. They chose to rush to the supplies shed and turn the crane into an erstwhile demolitions device with dynamite.

 

They weren't supposed to beat the thing, but I gave it to them for their trouble. THAT is how you beat masters in Malifaux, not by shooting then with your gun.

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I love that it is a story heavy system. I play miniature games for my tactical combat fix. I like my role play to bemore about story and immersion. Additionally nothing stops a FM from adjusting those fixed TN for purposes of narrative perhaps they come across a wounded master. Or an elderly mature.

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