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Karina - how to get any use out of her?


Cyphre

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I have played Tara for the past month now, and I love her playstyle and the models. One thing bugs me though - Karina.

 

Normally I like playing a themed crew, but with Karina I feel a huge disadvantage if I take her. For 5 pts. she does nothing and I find myself more wanting to take another Void Wretch or Death Marshal.

 

So I'm looking for advice from anyone who has actually gotten any use out of her.

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Agreed, Steampunkcake.

 

Razheim, I'm one of those people who like to hand out fast offensively, still have never found a time I've wished I had Karina in my crew... she's just not very exciting.

 

I usually take the Graveyard Spirit if playing Resser, and no totem as outcast, though Malifaux Child and Student of Conflict both look stronger than Karina for the points.

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I started playing Tara with Karina in the crew but after a few games I decided to drop her and haven't really bothered with her since. The times I did use her I shot at things, burned buried enemy models and once even managed to use Bash's Trigger to kill somebody. At 5ss though you can happily not bother or take Student of Conflict, another Void Wretch, hell even a Desperate Merc would probably give you more mileage. I will probably get her out of the case again one day but for the moment shes not going anywhere. 

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I really wish Tara had been open beta tested - I think she would have seen some changes, specifically Nothing Beast and Karina.

 

Karina is flat-out the worst totem in the game and the Nothing Beast is a 10SS model that people say to play correctly you need to take another upgrade with to burry him until you need him because he's so fragile if your opponent gets activation, so you need another upgrade to get positive flips on initiative as well for after he comes out.

 

Honestly it feels like I'm fighting against the whole hand discard mechanic when playing Tara.  Having a hand is such a massive advantage, being forced to activate as soon as possible and dump half your hand to get average defence is frustrating.  You may have good defence when your whole hand is dumped, but then you're down to praying to RNGesus that you don't flip badly, and that your opponent doesn't have any decapitate or other card discarding mechanics.

 

Honestly she's pretty much the only master I play where I don't really enjoy her.  I just feel handicapped if I bring a fluff list.  To play her competitively the only things that I would keep are the void wretches which are excellent, replace nothing beast with Bishop and drop karina for student of conflict.

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I used Tara this week with a fairly themed crew and smashed the Viks 5-1 (Should have been 8-1 but I got blood thirsty and forgot to Deliver a Message to Ash Vik which I had revealed earlier). This crew included Tara, Nothing Beast, 2 Wretches, 1 Death Marshall, 1 Convict Gunslinger & a FK Strongarm Suit. I switched between burying the SAS and NB and launching them into the Viks. By the end of turn 2 both Viks were dead and so were a Ronin or two. This severely crippled my opponents ability to fulfill any schemes. 

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I think the nothing beast is fine, though I do feel it's non attack 1 action is pretty much a waste (but I don't do the fast assault, will try that next game with her for sure), it should probably be focusing most times and abusing that 9" threat range plus incorporeal to keep out of trouble till relevant in case Tara can't or doesn't want to just ferry it around. Karina is the one I'm suspect about.

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The Nothing Beast was MVP in my last two games. Being incorporal he enabled me to deliver a message to Kirai by just going through everything. In a board littered with buildings he is immense just going through the walls at will. 

 

I will say that I normally start the game by having him buried by a Death Marshal, which helps. If I have a good control hand I will use my other beatstick (normally Bishop) but if my control hand sucks I dump it and launch the Nothing Beast with his  DF 9, knowing that those high cards that eluded my control hand is gonna come out. Using Tara to launch a 4 AP Bishop into someone is awesome. I killed Von Schill with the first activation of round 2 as I chose to activate Tara, who buried Bishop, took a shot a Von Schill and then launched Bishop into Von schill again. 

 

Tara is so versatile and that's why I love playing her, you don't need to have something buried all the time. Tara helps her crew and should consentrate on being the launch pad for beat sticks and objectives.

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Manic Mouse, Tara could have probably used a little more fine tuning (*cough* Dead of Winter *cough*), and I don't think anyone would cry "broken!" if the NB dropped cost by a point, but the crew is hardly unplayable- I've currently won more games than I've lost with her, and she's quite good. Karina is really the only weak link, and fortunately she's not essential.

 

 

Razhem, re: the non-attack 1, if all the target has is 2 damage left, you force them to either kill themselves or get spectacularly vulnerable to WP duels, w/o any test to block. It's definitely niche, but has a use...

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I used to think Karina wasn't "worth the points", however, like ANY crew in Malifaux she has her place. I will say that I find the most use from her to be with he upgrade. "Long Forgotten Magics" upgrade against a big hitty crew is quite powerful once you've buried something like Barbaros or a Mature, or whoever else you don't want to have to deal with for a little while. Make sure she is range when you kill other stuff and those models you don't want to come back into play are stuck 'out-of-play'. 

 

Couple this with her (1) Flames of the Void and she can put the hurt on some models, then when you are ready to face the big hitty opponent model just pop it out yourself and do what Tara does best. Attack the models own crew.

 

Oh and, while a total out-lier as far as usefulness of abilities are concerned, the ability to summon death marshals is a def. possibility. I have used it before.

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Razhem, re: the non-attack 1, if all the target has is 2 damage left, you force them to either kill themselves or get spectacularly vulnerable to WP duels, w/o any test to block. It's definitely niche, but has a use...

I can see the niche, but it's still a pretty hard sell, but again, I'm the guy that gives out fast to his crew while minimizing in every way possible how much I give fast to the enemy. I consider it homework to go with a more aggressive "fast for all!!!!" battle plan though and see if I crash and burn or not.

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Sure, yeah, didn't say it was a great niche. Wish it were something more aggressive than something you could brush off with some weak damage.

 

Re: "fast for all!" I'd recommend no more than 2 models ever. Void Wretches tagging a single enemy they're engaging is valid; otherwise you probably just want to go aggressively after 1 at a time. It's more useful, in my opinion, to attack one medium-powerful piece at a time even when going aggressively.

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Reading through this thread now I see a great use that I would have gotten in a Turf War vs Misaki the other night, as due to Dead of Winter I was lucky enough to bury Misaki herself, so with Karina it would have been possible to stop Yin killing one of my Dead Marshalls to unbury her. I guess I can see a use for Karina now in strategies such as Turf War then, or even with the Assassinate scheme available to killer enemies, as you can keep the heaviest hitters down.

Darn I need to play this game more again and do some reading up.

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Hmm, actually, probably what makes the most sense in that scenario is to just kill Karina. Thus we've come full circle, to those low defensive stats and no defensive abilities. Unfortunately, the best defense for her is probably the Grave Spirit, which is mutually exclusive with her. Yes, you could force a model to target her instead of something else, but I can't think of a single 6* point model that's easier to take out.

 

edit: I actually looked through the book (didn't bother to scan the 2nd wave cards)- couldn't find anything with the same or worse stats and no defensive abilities. The closest were Pere (who has worse stats but a defensive trigger) and the austringer (who doesn't need to be close to the front line, and still has better stats).

 

*just to be clear, the reason she's 6 is I'm including the upgrade that people are claiming is her niche role

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Q: When Karina uses her Long Forgotten Magics ability to make a model that would be killed sacrificed instead, does Karina count as having sacrificed the model for encounter purposes?

A: No, the model which originally made the kill counts as having sacrificed the model. Karina’s Ability simply changes the model’s state from “killed” to “sacrificed.”

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I summoned a Death Marshal once, it was fun, it got killed next activation :unsure:

The only use I have had from her is to deny points for Reckoning

Um,

Q: When Karina uses her Long Forgotten Magics ability to make a model that would be killed sacrificed instead, does Karina count as having sacrificed the model for encounter purposes?

A: No, the model which originally made the kill counts as having sacrificed the model. Karina’s Ability simply changes the model’s state from “killed” to “sacrificed.”

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Um,

Q: When Karina uses her Long Forgotten Magics ability to make a model that would be killed sacrificed instead, does Karina count as having sacrificed the model for encounter purposes?

A: No, the model which originally made the kill counts as having sacrificed the model. Karina’s Ability simply changes the model’s state from “killed” to “sacrificed.”

 

 

Well I'm glad thats cleared up, to be fair I was beginning to think she might be a bit overpowered with 1 useful ability

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