Kalkris Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 As for pact I always put it on collodi with bag of props. As he is the one using the all the focus he will be flipping the most cards and has to most to loose from a failed horror check, you waste not only the rest of his activation but also all the actions you spent putting focus up. Looking at his actions you are looking at 4 focus 1 attacks for 8 cards, with on average a plus flip on damage for another 8 cards, to a best case 4 focus 2, 2 focus 2 with extra plus, and 6 4 card damage flips that's 44 cards with out terrifying or manipulative checks. Putting the average somewhere near the middle you are looking at 1 model flipping roughly half the deck every turn. So what is your third choice of upgrade for Collodi? Oh, and, Asrian... BASK IN THE FILTH. ;3 ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursingbulldog Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Collodi usually takes bag of props, strum and pact. His other two upgrades I don't find that useful. Breath life is not that great for a low heal or group push, his ap is better spent attacking and getting rid of your opponents ap. Threads of fate is more useful for the forced movement immunity but the armor is mostly useless as you should be able to keep your opponents out of range/ no ap left to attack with. And this is in regards to a props list, these are a lot more useful in a fated crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 It could just be the people I play on Vassal and Locally, but I find quite a bit of use with Breath Life. Because Collodi is such a pain to take down (especially with a Personal Puppet around), my opponents tend to concentrate on taking out his toys first to ensure when they do target him he has nothing left to protect him. As a result, I tend to take Breath as it targets any friendly, not just minions/puppets, which also helps keep other henchmen/enforcers on their feet as well as taking my Effigies and Stitched above their Hard to Kill 1 wound count if needed when I'm playing Bag of Props instead of Fated where they aren't healing off my Brutal Effigy buff. As I said though, that's my experience. I'll have to give Pact a go some time and see how it works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Cool to some discussion about Pact. The upgrade is rarely rated at all. Me included, I don't like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think Arcane effigy is better than Pact + a Marionette and other 1ss upgrades like Retribution's Eye / Fears Given Form are better than Pact. Because I don't believe it. Pact never worked in my cases, so I don't use it. Addtionally, I think Breathe Life is good with any limited upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursingbulldog Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I agree Pact in general is pretty crap. I can't see using it on any other model except a props Collodi as no one else can flip enough cards over the course of a game to make the investment worth it. But it's served me well, 3 times over two games this week, one was for a terror check against a student of steel I think, and one to finish of a Rail Golem that i had accidentally boosted his burning up to +9. And lately I've been using Coppelius for healing and replacing any marionettes that go down with alps. He has some additional synergy with widow weaver if I bring her and it helps having some non construct models to diversify. The alps have the added benefit of helping Collodi put out some extra damage via their slow aura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Little Puppet Man Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Has anyone tried running an Oiran with Collodi (specially with a showgirl-oriented crew)? On paper, she doesn't look like a great mercenary for 6ss, but she has some things that could make her work with the puppeteer: She gets an extra defensive +1 when getting defensive during her activation, which can be useful with Bag of Props She gives +1 wp 4" around her, which can help to cover for Vasilisa and Coryphees weaknesses She is a Showgirl, so she can be used by Coryphees and Mannequins to move. She has a ca8 lure. She can't be charged. On a trigger, she can stop a model from targetting Showgirls with attacks (so, healthier Coryphees) With all that said, she needs suits for almost everything (including the lure!), and I think a performer would be a better choice. But she could work in a showgirl crew. And Collodi's "My Will" giving + flips might help with the missing suits. What do you think? Talking about Showgirls, what's the deal with the Coryphee? I keep reading her card and I cannot see how she won't be dying as soon as the oponent turns his/her eyes on her. Armor +2 and movility sounds cool and all, but it won't do much against the likes of Perdita. on df and wp won't help to compensate that sad df6/wp4/wd4, either. The models look great and there is the possibility to use ss in damage prevention but... are they really worth at 7ss? On the effigy front, as I'm going to get the performers + mannequins, I've decided to pass on the Shadow effigy and just get Brutal (+Lucky as a plan b ) and Arcane. Hodgepodge is not bad, but the render is meh and I don't like discarding cards, not even for ss. Carrion seems ok to remove invulnervilities and to further spread slow, and the healing might do for a plan c. I'd love to find some use for Mysterious, as she is the coolest effigy; but so far she is not makig it for me (and I'm on a buddget). At first I didn't like Lucky, but I'm getting to apreciate it and it does for a solid crew-healing solution when Fated. And what about this: with Bag of Props you could abuse Lucky's "Hit me" by summoning him every turn. Almost untoucheable crew with automatic healing on Collodi? Doesn't sound that bad.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Compare coryphee with silurids and treat them in similar manners. Get the cards next to each other and you'll see that for 7ss they certainty pull their weight. They can die - but in 10 games I've only lost a coryphee to a metal gamin (which has happened on two occasions) as their magnetism is a direct counter to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursingbulldog Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Dont overlook shadow. His defensive noon can be good and his 1ap action that lets models drop a scheme marker at the end of turn can be invaluable with the right schemes. Single handedly saved a game I had vs pandora after she nullified my whole crew allowing me to to score line and plant explosives. Carrion is also good as its heal can be used immediately after strumming. Can be useful in a fated list as you are less likely to be attacking directly with collodi loosing the healing lucky and brutal give, and instead my willing minions and giving buffs which doesn't involve duels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Little Puppet Man Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Compare coryphee with silurids and treat them in similar manners. Get the cards next to each other and you'll see that for 7ss they certainty pull their weight. They can die - but in 10 games I've only lost a coryphee to a metal gamin (which has happened on two occasions) as their magnetism is a direct counter to them. These kind of comparissons are always tricky; but I see your point. Eveverytime I could consider to bring a Silurid with Collodi, the Coryphee would be the better choice. I guess I'll just have to field them for a test. My earlier games of Malifaux were Pandora with sorrows against Sonnia, so I'm awfully scared of things dying fast in flames. When trying Collodi on vassal I loved how tanky the marionettes and effigies were for their price; so, when I look at the Coryphee, its "glass cannon" nature worries me. But I'll have to try them. Their renders look great, and that's what I care most at the end. Dont overlook shadow. His defensive noon can be good and his 1ap action that lets models drop a scheme marker at the end of turn can be invaluable with the right schemes. Single handedly saved a game I had vs pandora after she nullified my whole crew allowing me to to score line and plant explosives. Carrion is also good as its heal can be used immediately after strumming. Can be useful in a fated list as you are less likely to be attacking directly with collodi loosing the healing lucky and brutal give, and instead my willing minions and giving buffs which doesn't involve duels. Well, If I could, I'll get the 7 of them. Their stats and puppet nature make them amazing already. My problem with Shadow (besides being my second less prefered design after Hodgepodge) is that I don't think I need what it brings to the table. Its (1) marker trick is kind of redundant when I can use Mannequin's "Magician's assistant" to allow my minions to drop 4 or 6 markers at 6" on the first turn. I had not thought how useful it could be in a game against Pandora or Sybelle, but I think these are fringe scenarios, and Arcane could help you overcome these problems (thought I might be wrong). I agree the defensive (0) is not bad (in fact I think is underrated); but, still, I would place Shadow near the end of my priority list. I like Carrion's model and I guess I'll eventually get it, but I'm not sold on the utility of its healing. Of course, having Collodi healing when damaging, flipping a ram and also discarding a corpse marker or card makes for an amusing overkill. But if you want to play the defensive game, I think it would work best to give your puppinions defensive +2 and pass them Lucky's effect. Even if you don't hit much, you'll get back to full health quickly, and you'll be less exposed to wounds suffered after activation. But I like it, I think it will be the 4th or 5th effigy I'll purchase, when I fail all my wp duels against awesomeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 More than just a card comparison between silurids and coryphee, they fill the same role but can also hit hard and take more of a punch. Bargain for collodi. also, ive moved away from using marionettes at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdhay Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 and giving your enemy negatives on df and wp duels when stitched are around is brilliant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Little Puppet Man Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 More than just a card comparison between silurids and coryphee, they fill the same role but can also hit hard and take more of a punch. Bargain for collodi. also, ive moved away from using marionettes at all... Now that's intriguing. I guess you prefer Primordial Magic? After giving some thought to Collodi I've ended up realising he doesn't need puppets (or even minions, if you choose the props route) to shine. But to renounce to one of the best 3ss models in the game... to their hard to kill, their retract, their ability to interact and to hit with a decent ml... I don't see it. But that must make for interesting games, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I see the effigies as being even better for that extra stone with their armour and higher defence - i treat them like totems really I'm still hitting 9-10 model crews which is more than enough IMO. pmagic, massaging the hand a little with rush of magic, is always good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Wow Joel. I'd love to hear more about that as it sounds quite unorthodox to play Collodi without any marionettes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursingbulldog Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I've played without marrionets before and you don't loose much if anything. Their main value is in activation control as their attacks are subpar unless you use Collodi's or vasilisa's ap to give them actions, which I feel is wasted as both of them still have higher attack values and have better triggers. You can also accomplish much of the same activation control by using Collodi's duel mask and crow triggers to keep the opponent out of position wasting an activation just to get back where they were or forcing them to become paralyzed if you have a terrifying model. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 That's pretty much it. Marionettes have their uses (interference for one) but their main benefit is being speed bumps and activation control. Without them I'm still hitting 9-10 activations which is more than enough, don't feel the need for 11-12 often. The effigies, at just a stone more, offer so much more that I tend to use them in the same way I'd use marionettes - and get the lovely vomit worm into the bargain. Marionettes are NOT bad at all, but they aren't necessary for him like daydreams are for dreamer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 That is a really cool viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I've just come up with some extra added filth for collodi too, probably best for bag of props build, but would work fated as well.... ...don't want to say too much before gencon though, so PM me if you can't wait until next Monday. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 When someone of your caliber says filth it's scary. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 [...] ...don't want to say too much before gencon though, so PM me if you can't wait until next Monday. Can't let those yanks have a fresh scouting report on you Looking forward to hear about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunagami Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 sooooo..... enquiring minds want to know this filth..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlitzMonkey Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 sooooo..... enquiring minds want to know this filth.....I second this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 thirding for filth related info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cursingbulldog Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Joel gave me the basics of this before gencon and it's been long enough to give you guys some hints. Illuminated, depleted, strum. You guys figure out the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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