10t on the whole.

[Cynon]

Hey guys, I have just started playing Mali again a couple months ago and been involved in the beta phases and following the forums more than I have probably ever. In 1e I played Neverborn then Arcanists. I love going to tourneys I played at gencon once and am somewhere between a competitive and casual player (I play with my friends but we are all competitive is what it comes down to).

Throughout the beta phases the one theme that seems to constantly coming up is that 10t crews as a whole are 'supposed' to be compartmentalized much like outcasts were in 1e. You have your specific models and then ran them with basically the box and a blister or two. When 2e was done I looked at the models as a whole (misaki box archers and the various henchmen/enforcers) and loved the models so much I hopped back in to play and got them (I had sold my neverborn and lost my arcanists...dont ask). Now I was really hoping that with the new edition they would have fixed the issue with 10t not having any common synergy so that we actually had a faction that would play together. I guess that is not and probably will not ever happen.

We have few models that belong to our faction (some others have this issue but I dont think any are as bad as 10t)

Two of 'our' boxes have models that you can not even use with other masters (yan lo ashigaru and when it comes out brewmaster - none of the tri chi are dual faction for some reason)

There is no common synergies between any of our crews really. You are really cornered into taking X with Y to have any feeling of coherency between models in your crews.

And probably the most important thing is whenever we do get a model or get access to a model we have to worry about balancing it across two factions. This is a HUGE drawback. We have to worry about mccabe getting something because guild will have it, or yan lo because ressers will have it; or we have to worry about traps being balanced because other people have access to them, izamu, wastrels etc. which in the end means we have a fractured group of models that have little to no coherency across the faction as a whole and basically if you want to play them in any sort of competitive enviroment you have to essentially collect models from every faction in the game.

Is this intended or just a byproduct of how they were introduced. The wave 2 stuff seems to be much of the same with the monks only wanting to be used with shen, and all the dual faction guys wanting to be used specifically with their dual faction master.

Maybe this is just a rant out of frustration but do other people feel this as well? Is there any real reason we do not at least have access to models across the gamut? Or during the transition from 1e to 2e they did not just seal up the faction to give them some more synergie with themselves...or a trait like black blood or something that would work with 10t models.

I played a couple games this weekend at our LGS and voiced my opinion that in its current state I would not recommend this as a primary faction for anyone. Especially a newer player or someone that does not have enough money to buy X crew box then YYYYYYYYY from his faction and then another and another

[Larsemillarsen]

Hi

I'm a new player (never played M1E). When I decided to start playing Malifaux a couple of months ago, I picked Ten Thunders because of the models.

Now I've played them for about 2 months and my initial verdict is: They seem well balanced against the other factions, BUT I totally agree that it "feels" like there is synergy missing in the faction. Of the three masters currently in M2E only Lynch has some synergy with Illuminated and Beckoners (looking af the beta, it seems not even Graves or Tannen will have synergy?! - very strange), Mei Feng only benefit from any synergy in her crew herself (constructs) and Misaki has no synergy whatsoever (Smoke and Shadows can be taken by a henchmen without using Misaki).

I still really like Ten Thunders: They have, in my opinion (but I am very new to the game), a much wider range of playstyles than the other factions (though I definitely could be wrong).

Sooo long post short, my initial conclusion: very cool and balanced faction, but lacks synergy.

[Argentbadger]

The flip side to having models specialised to work with their thematic masters and no others is that all the masters play very differently. As a consequence, it is very hard to counter pick once Ten Thunders is announced. Also, it makes for a highly enjoyable range of play styles.

which in the end means we have a fractured group of models that have little to no coherency across the faction as a whole and basically if you want to play them in any sort of competitive enviroment you have to essentially collect models from every faction in the game.

Apologies for the selective quoting, but I believe that this isn't taken out of context. I don't agree that you have to collect so many models at all, whichever faction you choose. My experience locally has been that players who have a small pool of pieces they know really well are not at a disadvantage compared to those who have the full range of options.

I played a couple games this weekend at our LGS and voiced my opinion that in its current state I would not recommend this as a primary faction for anyone. Especially a newer player or someone that does not have enough money to buy X crew box then YYYYYYYYY from his faction and then another and another

I think that Ten Thunders are fine as a primary faction, at least as much so as any other faction in Malifaux. This hypothetical new player in your final sentence will suffer the same problem in Ten Thunders as in any other faction, i.e. that they end up with a pool of models that synergise well with their first master and then will have to 'take the jump' to spread into further master options.

The situation is nowhere near as bad as v1.5 Outcasts who had 6 leaders with largely exclusive hiring pools. M2E has greatly improved the options available to Ten Thunders by adding dual faction some models that were previously only available by the equivalent of infiltration (notably Illuminated in my collection).

[SoulG]

10T "Synergy" also has lesser value than other Masters, and takes less investment to set up. Their models are independently pretty awesome. Pick a Master, expand primarily with 10T models, then pick up the other Master's box sets. You might have to pick up a single out of faction blister for a 10T Master. The should take care of you for most things. Just because you -can- hire a lot out of faction doesn't mean you -need- to.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

Oh, one thing the 10T do kind of miss is that sense of buying all the box sets and having that sense of great variety for all your Masters. In Rezzers, if you buy the Nicodem / Seamus / McMourning boxes, then you have a fantastic selection of models for all of them. In 10T, less so.

That said, Mei Fang + Misaki are really good on that front.

[tadaka]

I could not disagree more. Most every box set brings some amazing minions to 10t as a whole. Iluminated, Torakage, Rail workers, and wastrals are all outstanding models for any crew. Yan has the only bum wheel box imho out of the 10t. In 1.5 I would agree with your statement but not any more. They may not have the fluffy aspect but they are all very solid models that work well for any master.

[Krehtsturm]

One of the major advantages that 10T has is that when you declare it, your opponent can't know what to expect. Because 10T taps into each other faction, we get the perks and powers of each, allowing for the greatest diversity in one crew. Not only from each master getting a unique skill set and group of minions, but from combining and mix-and-matching to make really bizarre crews that most people wouldn't expect.

While I agree that many aspects of each master make picking only from their group of minions and henchmen, mixing and matching adds even more diversity to the table as well. Running McCabe with Izamu. While on face value that team-up doesn't look super great, McCabe can dump some upgrades onto Izamu and support him by dishing out slow and make him an even more powerful figure, combine that with wastrels pumping some healing in there and flanking off smaller enemies; then a kamaitachi if you're using disposable upgrades, you've got a crew that most people won't normally think works.

So, yeah, I'm a pretty big 10T fan...

[decker_cky]

One of the major advantages that 10T has is that when you declare it, your opponent can't know what to expect. Because 10T taps into each other faction, we get the perks and powers of each, allowing for the greatest diversity in one crew. Not only from each master getting a unique skill set and group of minions, but from combining and mix-and-matching to make really bizarre crews that most people wouldn't expect.

I'm not sure 10T is really any more diverse than Outcasts. It's a bit more diverse than Arcanists since it includes living, undead and construct crews (though I suppose marcus can have a mostly undead crew), but Outcasts can be just as diverse in terms of playstyles and crews.

[LordZombie]

I am loving the new Ten Thunders. We now have what feels like a real faction. On the idea of having to take only what is in the box, that goes back to the comment about when you declare Ten Thunders your opponent doesn't know what you are taking. Maybe you take Mei Feng and all the last blossoms models or Misaki and all the darkened or even Lynch and models with no type at all. You can take their box sets if you want, and with 1.5 Ten Thunder, you almost had to. Now in m2e, you can play what you like.

[thebarbalag]

Mei and Lynch's boxes go rather well together. Rail Workers have good synergy with Lynch, Illuminated are excellent models, with our without other sources of Brilliance, and Kang is a killer all-around Henchman.

[WongNumber7]

Let me start by saying I'm a casual player. If you're a hardcore fanatic and/or have a miniatures addiction then this probably won't apply to you. I really like what Wyrd did for the Ten Thunders. My local Malifaux group is made entirely of newbies and we all dragged each other into the game within a month. We have Arcanists, Guild, Ressers, Neverborn, Gremlins, Outcasts, and 10T, each one of us picking one (in a couple cases two) faction.

I only started playing around the end of the Wave 1 Beta test, but I believe there's solid principal for each faction, not just 10T. Each faction has its own flavor. Each one will appeal to different people for a variety of reasons. Within each faction there only really needs to be enough variety for those players drawn to it to find enough to suite their play styles. I believe Wyrd delivers and then some. Ten Thunders can quickly becoome a highly technical crew to run. It's also highly satisfying for those of us who do. (We can kill you with our minds.)

Wyrd seems to have balanced 2E well enough that everyone finds something. Is it the mostly kill-y crew ever? Probably not. Can I take on said kill-y crew with a personalized crew by playing to my strengths? Probably yes. There's synergy in the 10T and for those of us too stubborn to look elsewhere, we found it, are happy with it, and enjoy using it to prove Conan truly did know what is best in life.

[TarlSS]

I'm new and selected TT as my first faction, mostly because I liked the look, asian stuff.

 

I come from Warmachine, and in particular I played Khador. TT reminds me of Khador.

 

TT pieces are strong units with good stats that don't have synergy. The fact that they are strong and don't have synergy means you can really spread out and run around the board and be reasonably confident your model is going to do the job- unlike some teams there isn't a complex combo they rely on effectiveness that can be cut in two by killing off one of the models. Graves without Tannen is still pretty good, and vice versa.

 

We've got a lot of them- Illuminated, Ansatsu Sha, The Lone Swordsman, etc. These are strong pieces that don't require additional support.

 

Of course, we DO have some synergy options that are quite powerful. Sensei Yu, Lucas McCabe, Shenlong and Chiaki are very strong generic synergy pieces- they don't require specific models or specific types of models, but rather 'synergize' acting as support pieces. Shenlong for example is the synergy king, synergizing with Oiran,Samurai, Torkage, Ansatsusha, even Hans.

 

I would daresay Shenlong was the answer to the 'not factiony enough' complaint of TT. He pretty much gives everyone in the faction a huge boost with 0 Focus and defense actions, and gives you a big incentative to 'brick up' around him like you'd see most synergistic factions do.