Dracomax Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well, keep in mind that there are other, natural breeches, and that at least one has opened often enough in the past that the 3 kingdoms had certain advantages in magic over the rest of the world. The current theory, as I understand it, is that Masamune himeself either tried to slay, or forged the blade to slay the "oni" coming through the breech, and it either trapped Shez'uul, or Shez'uul tried to escape through it in order to get out of Malifaux and take over Earth. Whether this was during or some time after the fall of the tyrants is somewhat up for debate, but it is possible, since we don't know exactly how long ago the age of tyrants was, beyond "at least a couple of hundred years" Masamune lived c. 1300 AD. It would fit with the motif of Masamune's swords being "holy" and used to slay/imprison demons. Still, if it can make people go into rages and is likely to turn on its wielder, it fits the lore of Murasame's swords better. Of course, it could be that Murasama earthside designed his blades upon the masamune in which Shez'uul was imprisoned, as well... and him already being imprisoned in the blade does make Zoraida's gamble in book one a bit more logical. Wouldn't you think it likely that one of the tyrants could kill another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 The current theory, as I understand it, is that Masamune himeself either tried to slay, or forged the blade to slay the "oni" coming through the breech, Also, Oni is one of 10T characteristics in 2nd wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's also a semi-generic word in Japan for demon(Wikipedia informs me that Oni are a type of yōkai, but for the sake of brevity...) and a breach could be a decent explanation of how those models got the "oni" characteristic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtBrowncoat Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 " It explained that it was a creature of Old Malifaux and came into its own power when it and other mighty creatures it called Tyrants rose to dominance." This line here makes be think huggy 100% isnt a tyrant. he refers to the tyrants as other creatures called tyrants not as his fellow tyrants. also to my knowledge grave spirit is not a tyrant but the essence of death personified. Seamus tried to harness its power but was stopped by that son of a b......hawkins I can see where you are coming from, although I think it is a little open to interpretation. For example, did he mean "Other creatures that happened to be known as Tyrants." or "Other Tyrants" This line also seems important in the debate, however:"the Hungering Darkness preferred to keep to the shadows. It was its aversion to attention that allowed the Hungering Darkness to avoid being imprisoned along with the other Tyrants." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malistrad Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 I know it doesn't really add anything to deciphering Tyrant identities, but hasn't anyone noticed the significance of the number 13? ie, Ace through King? I speculate if Tyrants will be randomly generated from a Fate deck during Story Encounters or, even more excitingly, in the coming Campaign book? Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't think hungry (I call him hugy CUs of his cuddly physic and lots of arms) isn't, I think in his head he includes him self as a tyrant and thinks he was really powerful but he is just trying to make him self for scary. I think he is overly nostalgic and not above lieing like a little cheater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 In the fluff Huggy says he is not a Tyrant. Could be lying though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarbalag Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 As for Tyrants being Earth-side, I think in the Crossroads fluff, the Dragon is shown to have hidden from imprisonment by going to Earth, and is wary of manifesting beyond using Shenlong on Malifaux for fear of attracting the attention of the other Tyrants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard-Miri Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I feel it's worth mentioning that Shenlong refers to the Dragon as "Dragon of the Stars" a few times. That specificity would lend some credence to the previously mentioned theory that there are two Dragons, though it's by no means definitive. Side note, but we know that there has been some crossover between Earth and Malifaux at least as far back as Ancient Egypt from McCabe's backstory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 In the fluff Huggy says he is not a Tyrant. Could be lying though Pretty sure lying about your Tyrant status doesn't protect you from Relic Hammers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Mcmold Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Huggys stat card doesn't have the Tyrant characteristic, so the relic hammers don't do anything special against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Huggys stat card doesn't have the Tyrant characteristic, so the relic hammers don't do anything special against it. Right. One would think they would if he was lying about not being a Tyrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 It's been a while since I last weight in on this, so I thought I'd update my original list slightly; The Tyrants we know;Nytemare: Lord Chompy Bits. Currently hanging with a small boy, partly by choice, partly because the child is somehow able to keep him there. Obliteration: Tara's BFF. Had a whole nice prison for himself until Tara released it during the Dead of Winter campaign. Plague: Currently occupying a Hamelin lookalike. Was apparently a scientist. Probably a very bad one, considering how impatient he is. December: The Voice in Raspy's head. Arguably the dunce of the tyrants, having failed 3(?) times now to manifest. Gorgon: Related to the Gorgons tear, which is currently embedded in Seamus's head. Also seems to have a role in Molly and Kirai's stories, making her one of the more far-reaching Tyrants in terms of influence. Cherufe: Trapped within either Sonnia's Lantern, or Sonnia herself. Dragon #1: The first of two supposed Dragons refers to itself as "The" Dragon, and resides within Shenlong. Presumably escaped Earthside aeons ago, built up his Monk temples and has now recently returned to Malifaux to do...stuff... Shez'uul: While not stated outright, this is almost definitely the demon trapped within Viktoria's Massemune Sword. From the original book 1 background he/it was captured while Earthside, although as we know from Shenlongs story, it wouldn't be the only instance of an earthside Tyrant. The ones we don't have confirmation on; Despair: Has never been mentioned outright, but on the basis of its name it's quite likely to be the malevolent force that resides in Pandora's Box. Fortune: Best guess thus far is that this might be the Hungering Darkness. Mind you, HD is more to do with addiction than gambling. Ruleswise Huggy is not a Tyrant, and his background in M2E book 1 refers to him as a "powerful creature", not a Tyrant. So unless someone knows of anywhere that refers to him as a Tyrant, the jury is out on him. Witness: No other info, although the Law & Order type name could indicate that this one is related to either Lady Justice, Jack Daw or possibly even the Governor. None are great candidates though. Dragon #2: We've so far only heard about one Dragon (Shenlong's buddy), with no info forthcoming about a second. Could be an opposite kind of entitiy to Dragon #1, like Yin and Yang? Or possibly it will be more like a Western-style Dragon. Honestly though, we have no info at all about who or what Dragon #2 could be. Meridion: Based on the name, it may have something to do with lay lines and astrological power, or (if you take the chinese medicine route) related to life force and healing. Again, we've no info at all on this one. Even the name gives us very few Malifaux-relevant clues as to where he/she/it fits in. ...and the ones that may be tyrants;Grave Spirit: Could be the Gorgon, but my understanding was always that they were seperate entities. Early background described the Grave Spirit residing in another dimension, which was opened in desperation by the original inhabitants of Malifaux to stop the Tyrants. Right?The Governor: It's pretty clear that there's more than meets the eye to the Governor, and he's undoubtedly a powerful individual. IMO he's either a Tyrant, or someone who's planning to become one. --- So since the last post Shenlong's been publicly revealed as the first of two Dragons, bringing out total number of known tyrants to 8. Of the last 5 we can probably feel consident about the identity of one (Despair), and it's 50:50 on another (Fortune). The last three (Witness, Dragon #2 and Meridion) are anyone's guess though! As an aside, I'd be very surprised if a Tyrant wasn't involved in the original opening of the Breach. Which one is anyone's guess, but I'm putting my money on Meridion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 The whole relic hammer hungry thing, maybe relic hammers kill belief, and hungry is a tyrant but doesn't believe it so the relic hammer can't kill his belief, and we all now how self assured constructs are .... No?... No? Ah well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSchlock Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I heard through the grapevine awhile back that Huggy is a part of Fortune, but not Fortune itself, as if Fortune was broken into pieces. This would explain why there's no Tyrant keyword on Huggy himself - he's not the full thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Grave Spirit is what the old Malifaux denizens summoned at a last attempt to kill the Tyrants, not a Tyrant itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSchlock Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 ^ Yep. The Grave Spirit coming into Malifaux created the Neverborn, if I remember that story correctly. Everyone who didn't die from the touch of the Grave Spirit was twisted / corrupted into the modern Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I wasn't aware of the Grave Spirits connection to neverborn, but I always got the impression it was the source of Necromatic magic and thus the Rezzers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard-Miri Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 The Governor: It's pretty clear that there's more than meets the eye to the Governor, and he's undoubtedly a powerful individual. IMO he's either a Tyrant, or someone who's planning to become one. I hadn't gotten that impression from the two stories I've read that had the Governor in them. Crossroads and the $15 rulebook are the only books I have so far, though, and I haven't read all of Crossroads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I hadn't gotten that impression from the two stories I've read that had the Governor in them. Crossroads and the $15 rulebook are the only books I have so far, though, and I haven't read all of Crossroads. In the older fluff the Governor seemed like a scary guy. New edition imo is making him look like a bumbling pawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSchlock Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 In the older fluff the Governor seemed like a scary guy. New edition imo is making him look like a bumbling pawn See, I don't think that. I'm pretty sure the Governor knows exactly what Lucius is, but is trying to use him while Lucius is using the Governor. The Governor is at least an Avatar of a Tyrant anyway. He's got the glowy eyes and a ton of magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Mcmold Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Every time the Dragon is mentioned this scene/intro pops to my mind (at least the first four minutes):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MS9_oRYURU The movie itself isn't anything special... Western dragons from various mythologies either represent a male counterpart to snakes or they represent earth gods in various pantheic trinities of leading gods. In this Trinity there is always a god that represents the sky (thunder, strenght, destruction...) and cosmic order , the god of the middle world of the mortals (usually female) which stands for changes(seasons, life & death...) and mortality and the chtonic god of the underground usually represented by the dragon which stands for fertility (cattle, but also war, because he has big armies) and chaos. The two male gods always fight over the middle one which is married to the sky god, but usually bears children to the earth god. You could say the two gods fight for the influence over mortals. These concepts are shared in most of the western mythologies, which had strong influence from Eastern mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard-Miri Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 The Governor is at least an Avatar of a Tyrant anyway. He's got the glowy eyes and a ton of magic. Isn't he a viceroy in a guild of mages? I would hope he has a ton of magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Barrows Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I think Peridita has a good chance of being connected to Witness. Her Avatar *manifestation was "The Witness." *As of her latest Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 ^ Yep. The Grave Spirit coming into Malifaux created the Neverborn, if I remember that story correctly. Everyone who didn't die from the touch of the Grave Spirit was twisted / corrupted into the modern Neverborn. Do you happen to remember where you saw this? I don't recall ever reading anything about a connection between the Grave Spirit's arrival and the Neverborn's creation. Far as I know, all the Grave Spirit did was basically kill everything and they immediately tried to lock it away in Kythera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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