Concern's about Ophelia's Upgrades

[hypoking]

I am intimately familiar with both crews and am thus qualified to talk about their relative strengths as masters and IMO Misaki still has the edge on the "OP" Ophelia since decapitate is so lethal and she doesn't have to spend soul stones (and wounds) on her trigger to deal decent damage.

Point of order Mouse, you were just talking about how its not reasonable to assume automatic triggers when thinking about output. I don't think you're taking into account the fact that Misaki's SA is fairly hard to pull off requiring both a stone and a suitable crow to cheat.

[rgarbonzo]

Point of order Mouse, you were just talking about how its not reasonable to assume automatic triggers when thinking about output. I don't think you're taking into account the fact that Misaki's SA is fairly hard to pull off requiring both a stone and a suitable crow to cheat.

Actually if you have no soulstones it becomes a :crows that you need to hit with. Depending on what cards you hold in hand it can become particularly effective to make your opponent discard cards, but that is a discussion on Misaki and not Ophelia.

Back on topic is it the TN12 duel required from the Threatnin Gun or the damage profile? Let's discuss one over the other.

I have no problem with a min damage 4 for this reason. Do It Like Dis! and Lenny's aura of giving rams to Bayou Gremlins. This can make a whole lot more models shooting than the 4 that can do it in an Ophelia led crew. Lenny can stand next to 3 Bayous and get the same effect add in Somers aura and you can get 12 Bayous shooting at the same Sh4 as the young with a minimum damage of 2. Add in focus and you can get to 6 damage on max with a blast to do another 4 damage to other models that may be close to the target.

Edited September 2, 2013 by rgarbonzo

[Manic Mouse]

Point of order Mouse, you were just talking about how its not reasonable to assume automatic triggers when thinking about output. I don't think you're taking into account the fact that Misaki's SA is fairly hard to pull off requiring both a stone and a suitable crow to cheat.

Run her with low soul stones, ronin for when needed and give the upgrades that give recalled training and broken promises to henchmen/enforcers. All the benefits of soul stones, without actually having them. Giving Misaki a + flip to EVERY flip (Ml and damage against stalked, Df, Wp against everyone) and a built in crow. Since you will be able to cheat any attack that lands (which they likely will) bar a draw doing severe damage is also pretty easy.

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

She shouldn't be compared to Misaki because they do their thing (killing stuff) so differently that you have to take their crew, and therefore all models available to them, into account when trying to figure out if it's balanced. It's like adding Ramos into the mix and claiming he sucks because he can't reach their killyness.

And how do you even compare Misaki's damage to Ophelia's. Trying to get actual numbers for Sudden Assassination becomes way to abstract when your opponent can discard cards or soulstones to stop the kill effect. Same with survivability, Misaki lives by avoiding hits altogether while Ophelia has access to a whole bunch of healing. How survivable they are depends almost entirely on what they're up against.

Misaki can't actually Shadow Stride, it's minions only.

Sorry, I was wrong about the shadow stride. But on the flip side Misaki also gets access to easy healing through Shang.

I agree about a lot of things going into making a crew what they are. Which is why this knee jerking irks me, let's leave it a few months and get some games in before declaring Ophelia OP.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Manic Mouse

[Guy in Suit]

Ophelia will be cuddled. I want to be as emphatic about that as I can. I am as certain about this as I've ever been about anything that has to do with this game. Writing is on the wall, ink is on the page, and the word is writ. Moses is just taking his sweet time on the way down the mountain while we cavort and revel with our shiny and blasphemous self-targeting kin-ergy zeroes and sticky upgrades. We all need to come to terms with this.

Wow, ego much?