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Some thoughts on the new Sonnia


AgentRock

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I'm not sure how much more useful it will be using pine box.

To start, any plan involving pine box means I need to bring a Death Martial. This isn't a bad choice, but I can bring a witchling for 1SS less, and I find with Sonnia I never have enough SS to hire, purchase upgrades, and still have what I want in game.

And then, by the time I do the pine box trick, I could have models dead already, with damage spread around to 2-3 other models. At minimum, it requires 3AP across at least 2 models, with the ability to counter in between. It might be useful against some of the bigger enforcer models though.

I will keep it in mind, and I'll definitely try it out against some of the scarier models and models with healing.

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Making a model Everburning also "tags" them for Sonnia for the rest of the game (or until they stop burning), letting her ignore cover and LoS when she makes future attacks against them. If you light up a model and it runs away from her, back towards the rest of its crew, you can just have Sonnia drop Fire Blasts of Dooooom onto the opponent's crew from behind a building, wall, or line of witchhunters without having to worry about repositioning for a clear shot.

It's also pretty good if you can tag an enemy Master or beatstick early on; the Burning condition (and the subsequent damage) just keeps stacking higher and higher...

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I love the new Sonnia, she was my favorite master in the last edition, and she made the transition well. She's like the other Guild masters in that she's a do it yourselfer with her amazing bread and butter spell.

Her upgrades are pretty good, though I've had some difficulty getting the maximum efficiency out of them (as stuff seems to die from so far away for Reincarnation) and she plays really nice with her base crew, and other solid beating pieces. I've been enjoying bringing some family along in her crews for awhile now.

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Making a model Everburning also "tags" them for Sonnia for the rest of the game (or until they stop burning), letting her ignore cover and LoS when she makes future attacks against them. If you light up a model and it runs away from her, back towards the rest of its crew, you can just have Sonnia drop Fire Blasts of Dooooom onto the opponent's crew from behind a building, wall, or line of witchhunters without having to worry about repositioning for a clear shot.

It's also pretty good if you can tag an enemy Master or beatstick early on; the Burning condition (and the subsequent damage) just keeps stacking higher and higher...

I actually had thought of that. there are 2 problems with that. Either I'm putting it on a model that will be dead by the end of the second round after I put it on them, (between burning damage, and the damage of actual spells and attacks, very few models can take 2 turns of Sonnia and co) or I only have 1-2 burning on them, and they take their actions to get rid of it. it's annoying, but in that same AP, I can fire off another fireblast at them, or hit somebody else.

As for targeting them after they run back to the horde, while I likely have the range, after I've been hit with it once or twice, as an opponent, I'm going to do the opposite; if the damage from burning is significant enough I can't ignore it for a round or two, I'll suicide charge into Sonnia's crew. The model is dead anyway, and Sonnia's box is not exactly renowned for their ability to survive. Every model I can get rid of from her crew makes it that much harder for her to target me with impunity. The also tend not to have much if anything in the way of healing, so there's a chance I can take Sonnia out. What I am saying is that it strikes me as a trick that'll only work once or twice, and then your opponent will be ready for it. In fact, that is generally my opinion of the upgrade. It does some neat things, but the costs (upgrade slot, AP to use) are too high for an effect that will tend to only work well when your opponent isn't expecting it.

I find that the rest of her upgrades offer either a way to change your abilities to open new roles, or something better for the costs. I would say that the generic upgrades don't interest me much with her either, and for the same reason. they add nice things, but the upgrade slot and the price to use just make them less interesting and useful than some of her specific upgrades or the equivalent price in models.

Tl;DR: if Sonnia had no other upgrades, I might see using it occasionally, but no use I've heard for everburning really justifies taking it over other options, or just dealing more damage.

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I had a game- Sonnia against Seamus- And Seamus Back alleyed up to just behind a column that I had a witchcling stalker behind- So- I starget the stalker. He relents (or maybe I did the old cheat low trick- I don't remember...) Cheated in severe, dropped blast templates (Starting 2" away because of pyromancy) and lit him on fire. At which point I "Chose to ignore LoS and Cover" on my "Attach [action my] model made against targets with the burning condition". Like Cherufe's Shackle. Cheated high, got the burning to stick on him, and then shot again.

Next turn, I won initiative, had Sam activate, and rapid fire. Upon further reflection- I probably should've tried to drop Witchhunt on him twice... >.<;

But, after that, you were right. He was "tagged" so to speak, so sam and Sonnia could just go to town on him, and even if he tried to clear fire, he couldn't fast enough. And if the fire goes away, he's still got Shackle on him, so if you paint him again, he still doesn't stop burning.

I remember being mad about Ophelia because SHE could shoot through walls. I wish I had taken time to beta test this- but don't let your master get shackled is the bottom line. (Unless you got a cleanse- Lady Justice, Monk of Low River, Witchling Stalker, etc)

ENinja

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Entrepe: You must have cheated low, because if you concede, you can't cheat damage.

Also, I'm not sure that Witch hunt twice is the way to go. Maybe once, in that situation, and really only because Seamus has access to some self healing/damage reduction stuff, but with Sam's gun, you can deal more than 8 wounds in a turn, especially if they have burning. I'm not saying that the shackle has no uses...just that once you've used it a couple of times, it is going to be very difficult to continue getting the use out of it, because either you can put out enough damage to make the burning moot(my usual experience) or they won't let you get it off on the target unless you get very lucky(because hard experience is the best teacher)

It's easier just to use a witchling or the specialist to paint your target, then get 3 flamebursts and a rapid fire off on them. Assuming you hit with 4 out of 6 of those, you probably killed anything you were aiming at. and if not, it isn't difficult to paint them next round, or add a few more points of burning to the mix to finish them off.

Really, the only Major exceptions I see are big, tank-style models(high Df, High wounds), and Henchmen/Masters--and those are going to be difficult to get the shackle on half the time anyway. You've convinced me it can be worth taking, but I think that unless you have a pretty good idea what your opponent is bringing, it probably isn't worth risking in a lot of the time, because there are other upgrades you can take that are going to be more generally useful.

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...the only Major exceptions I see are big, tank-style models(high Df, High wounds), and Henchmen/Masters--and those are going to be difficult to get the shackle on half the time anyway...

True dat. I think that because Shackle is casting 7 vs WP, if you've got the card to cheat- 12+ probably- it's more than likely a perma-burn on a tanky model. At this point, if my opponent declares ressur, and I'm inclined to go Sonnia (for some reason...?) then they've either got models that are nigh-unkillable (Doug/Seamus(7wp... >,<;), or big smashy monsters that will take a bit to kill (Sybelle, Flesh Construct). It's probably a good thing that things like "one with the night" and (presumably) levi's death/bury mechanic remove all conditions before healing, otherwise burying bette with everburning and 4 burning tokens might be a perma-death. :P

ENinja

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  • 1 month later...

played 3 games with sonnia against lylith last night.

first game was a battle box duel (new one vs my old one) 30SS. i managed to get a lucky shot off and set lylith, and 2 terror tots on fire turn 1 and kill one tot. killed cherub turn 2 along with another tot and like 3 damage to barbaros. was pretty easy to wrap up after that. made a witchling that i had lost.

game 2 was box sets and he added a mature neph. i added an austringer and guild guard. i got a lucky hit on the mature neph with a witchling and put burning on him after he moved up behind cover. sonnia dealt enough damage with the burning to ensure his death on turn 2 making another stalker. i threw stalkers up to melee tots and cause damage taking out 2 for 1 dead for me. in the end lylith was meleeing like a beast but eventually fell.

third game he came up on me quick. same lists. i shot/cast but had some very low flips and black joker and drew 7 and below for all my cards. third turn sam put 4 burn on mature and melee'd him to ensure death for new stalker. sonnia got tied up in melee by tots and lylith. i swung on lylith putting her at 3 with both of us expending our cache. remembered later that she couldnt have used them but oh well. in the end he grew a tot all the way to a mature. he had a mature, lylith, and barbaros; i had 2 stalkers and an austringer. in the last 2 turns the austringer shot mature for 3 after armor and took 4. he then disengaged and got severe damage with crit to ace him (like 2 previous damage from a stalker). stalker survived by 1hp against lylith with decent flips and a black joker. and managed to kill her. other stalker got into largely a whiff match with barbaros that led to me doing all but 1 damge, black blood killing me, and me exploding to kill him. i only pulled that one out due to quality flips.

new sonnia is a beast with range 14. the increase in almost all of the guild's ranges by 2" is likely to be a huge change. sonnia's ability to pop out more stalkers can be huge. stalkers causing burning on all damage is huge. confiscated lore for +2 Ca or Df is a game changer often leading to me hoping at all costs to win initiative to get the Df bonus. the flame wall helps to funnel the enemies to make your flame blasts hit more targets. seriously, on severe damage you can get 4 models pretty easily. sonnia's melee ability is not bad since the opponent can't benefit from soulstones with the right upgrade and since you can increase her Df for the counter-attack and you get to sift more cards.

i need to get another pack of stalkers to use 4 in games and keep 2 for creating.

i find the guild guard to be very lackluster. even in numbers they don't seem to be an effective use of 4 points. for one more point you get a stalker or a rifleman who has a Sh 6 and useful rules.

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played another game with sonnia today against the lynch boxset with 2 beckoners. i had sonnia box with an extra witchling and an austringer.

i lost a witchling first turn but made a new one from blowing up an illuminated by first burning it with sam and then finishing it up with sonnia.

second turn was pretty terrible for me with a 1,1,2,3,4,6 draw. i managed to put 2 wounds and 4 burning onto the darkness. and put some burning and 2 damage on lynch and a beckoner. beckoner pulled sam in so darkness could charge and kill him. with the help of an illuminated.

next turn the darkness charged sonnia and did 9 damage. luckily sonnia killed the darkness and healed 5 damage and drew a bunch of cards and then discarded for Df. witchlings did a good amount of damage to the remaining illuminated. at this point my opponent conceded saying he had no real way to deal with sonnia.

post game musings:

witch hunt on sam is amazing at times. for 2 ss i wasnt sure it would see regular use and that is still questionable but.... it is nice to have an attack that does not worry about cover. and after it works, his next shot can shoot unimpeded. i will stick to this upgrade.

yet again, violation of magic is ridiculously useful. only popped out one stalker this game but almost had 2 more.

stalkers are a constant threat to the enemy. shooting that can't be ignored (or it marks targets for sonnia), quality melee, condition removal, damage upon death, and a trigger to get them close to counter-attack or explode onto the enemy. these guys have a lot going for them even after the ss cost bump.

the austringer can create nice card advantage. i found myself cheating with a mid range mask just to force the discard so lynch couldnt sift as readily. combined with the stalker trigger it can be a pain for the enemy. sonnia's ability to sift in melee is not trivial either. even if you pull crap, you are just sifting it from your future flips. if the cards were good, you now have them to cheat with. card advantage was a huge boon in this last game.

Ca 9 is just ridiculous. perhaps it should have stayed just a ss to use and not have the 2 card alternative. going to Df 6 is nice much of the time as well if you activate early.

some of the triggers/abilities on the darkened models lead to high damage on even moderate flips; like 5-6 damage moderates. if they stack the right triggers and conditions it is deadly.

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played a game against rasputina. 50ss

i had sonnia, 5 witchlings, austringer and sam with reincarnation, flame wall and counter magic. he had 2 ice elementals, 5 gamin, wendigo.

i killed a gamin and wounded 2 more turn 1. he rushed up stuff to ice mirror turn 2 and killed 2 stalkers. i killed a gamin popping out one stalker and killed wendigo. did damage to the elementals. turn 3 i killed off enough things that were on fire to put out 2 more stalkers and killed an elemental. he called it.

played a 35ss game against lady J. she used the box set, i had sonnia, sam, 3 stalkers and an austringer. i played a bit coy since it was my opponents first game of M2E. lady J eventually moved up to kill a stalker. sonnia failed to hit lady J 2 out of 3 times (no real idea how) and only does 3 damage. lady J kills sonnia with a red joker damage cheat and sam finishes her up. judge, and 2 marshals finish off sam for the victory.

people have come to hate playing against my sonnia force. she is really really good. I've even started hamstringing myself by not using confiscated lore to add to Ca.

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played a game against rasputina. 50ss

i had sonnia, 5 witchlings, austringer and sam with reincarnation, flame wall and counter magic. he had 2 ice elementals, 5 gamin, wendigo.

i killed a gamin and wounded 2 more turn 1. he rushed up stuff to ice mirror turn 2 and killed 2 stalkers. i killed a gamin popping out one stalker and killed wendigo. did damage to the elementals. turn 3 i killed off enough things that were on fire to put out 2 more stalkers and killed an elemental. he called it.

played a 35ss game against lady J. she used the box set, i had sonnia, sam, 3 stalkers and an austringer. i played a bit coy since it was my opponents first game of M2E. lady J eventually moved up to kill a stalker. sonnia failed to hit lady J 2 out of 3 times (no real idea how) and only does 3 damage. lady J kills sonnia with a red joker damage cheat and sam finishes her up. judge, and 2 marshals finish off sam for the victory.

people have come to hate playing against my sonnia force. she is really really good. I've even started hamstringing myself by not using confiscated lore to add to Ca.

i usually use it to add to my Df. I don't really need a 9 Ca most of the time, any way, and having a decent Df is great..

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I'm going to get neoSonnia come December (the month, not Raspy's powaz!) and I have 3 guild riflemen waiting (to add some reach) but I'm wondering what else to add to her to give some more options. Sue is pretty synergistic but has anyone got any ideas of who or what would be good things to get in addition to sue and a witchling handler?

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  • 2 months later...

Sonnia was my first love in 1.5, I just never started a crew in Malifaux, now with 2.0 I'm torn between Marcus and Sonnia because they have always been the crews that appealed to me the most in this game, My girlfriend has gone with Seamus on the Rezzors so I'm looking for either a melee or shooty army to go after Seamus with, and no I'm not interested in playing lady j , I don't hate her she's a bad ass and all just don't want to play her or her crew.

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I decided on purchasing Sonnia, but One thing I don't understand is what is the purifying flame supposed to do, how are you supposed to use him?

 

Run him forward into the range of an enemy master of henchman. He hands burning when he dies and prevents soulstone use within 3 inches. Then blast into combat with Soniia and watch him and whatever is in that combat dying. It is one of the most annoying totems in my opinion

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lol, so wait , your telling me the only purpose of Purifying flame is do die? lol OK then. not knocking it just its an odd play style. :P

It's not just meant to die. It's a disruptor, mostly. By throwing it in combat with enemy masters/henchmen, it prevents them from shooting, using soulstones, and can tie them up with a decent of Ml 5. If they ignore it, cool , it will just follow them around or give them burning, continuing to disrupt. If they kill it, they're wasting AP and they get burning afterwards, forcing them to take damage (potentially lots of damage if Sonnia or Samael are in range, and they should be) or waste more AP getting rid of it.

One thing I've thought of doing and tried a couple of times is giving the Flame Everburning and hitting it with a Witchling on the first turn. Now it has burning for the rest of the game and won't take any damage. With Incorporeal, it can then run off to do it's disruption stuff wherever it wants, and then Sonna can blast off/shoot into combat through walls without having to target the enemy first. I've only done it twice, I think, and the second time really made my opponent waste a lot of AP across multiple models that they could have spent on getting VPs, even though they managed to kill it without taking burning (McMourning pushing around).

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It's not just meant to die. It's a disruptor, mostly. By throwing it in combat with enemy masters/henchmen, it prevents them from shooting, using soulstones, and can tie them up with a decent of Ml 5. If they ignore it, cool , it will just follow them around or give them burning, continuing to disrupt. If they kill it, they're wasting AP and they get burning afterwards, forcing them to take damage (potentially lots of damage if Sonnia or Samael are in range, and they should be) or waste more AP getting rid of it.

One thing I've thought of doing and tried a couple of times is giving the Flame Everburning and hitting it with a Witchling on the first turn. Now it has burning for the rest of the game and won't take any damage. With Incorporeal, it can then run off to do it's disruption stuff wherever it wants, and then Sonna can blast off/shoot into combat through walls without having to target the enemy first. I've only done it twice, I think, and the second time really made my opponent waste a lot of AP across multiple models that they could have spent on getting VPs, even though they managed to kill it without taking burning (McMourning pushing around).

.

Now that is a bad ass tactic for the Purifying flame, I will have to try that out

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