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Some thoughts on the new Sonnia


AgentRock

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On Sam..........

If you think his Upgrade is "situational at best" then you're not using the recommended amount of terrain. Enough terrain to cover almost half the table is A LOT of terrain....and most models will always be close enough to something......or, they can stand out in the open so that Sam and Sonnia can ignore cover whether you have burning or not.

Sam is the epitome of the 'glass cannon' now...with pretty low defense and low wounds for a Henchman. Don't disregard the effectiveness of using SS for defense and / or damage prevention to keep him alive.

His Ml skills are no joke either. Ml 6 with built in Crit Strike.......+2 damage vs burning.

If the enemy is burning he does a massive amount of weak damage. I faced it not long ago........charged Sam with a Cerberus but SS saved him......Sam went, used the Witch Hunt on it then smacked it once....with a cheated Ram for the crit strike trigger........that's 6 damage on a weak hit....plus the 4 for burning at the end of the turn.

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I don't think I've managed to lose a game with Sonnia in M2E yet, but my opponents testing out new crews instead of their main ones probably played a part in that. She was my main Master in 1.5 and she got a lot better, and I really like that her way of dealing damage involves targeting my opponents models now. Definitely looking forward to the Witchling Handler and her Avatar.

And Reincarnation is overhyped, enemies don't get within 10" of Sonnia.

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Well they won't go within range, but she can walk 8 inches and then cast the spell, so that opens up some possibilities for sniping people when they're on low wounds if you need a witchling replacement.

It's possible we just haven't gotten the right uses out of Sam, I suppose. In the games I've seen involving him, I haven't been blown away with his performance. Part of it may end up being a situation not unlike what you saw with the Neverborn at the end of 1.5, where there were models that were reasonable but there were better choices. Austringers are incredibly good, Francisco is an amazing henchman, and I'm really interested in seeing the specialist on the board. I'm not sure I would conclude that Sam is in the same ballpark as those models.

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  • 2 weeks later...

how is Francisco amazingly better than poor old sam.... Hehehe there stat lines are almost the same the only difference being Fran has a 2inch longer charge and his Ml is a 7 vs a 6..... they do different things.. (sam can go crazy if you keep him in a terrain heavy area with sonnia about, He turns into a witchling stalker making machine) but as things stand in the staying alive area they are the same...

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Well they won't go within range, but she can walk 8 inches and then cast the spell, so that opens up some possibilities for sniping people when they're on low wounds if you need a witchling replacement.

It's possible we just haven't gotten the right uses out of Sam, I suppose. In the games I've seen involving him, I haven't been blown away with his performance. Part of it may end up being a situation not unlike what you saw with the Neverborn at the end of 1.5, where there were models that were reasonable but there were better choices. Austringers are incredibly good, Francisco is an amazing henchman, and I'm really interested in seeing the specialist on the board. I'm not sure I would conclude that Sam is in the same ballpark as those models.

I have had my best luck with sam in a perdita list. Granted I don't know if shackled (from the totem) will be friendly model or friendly family model but between shackled, and obey perdita gets sam in to where you need him to do his thing. Sam in the right conditions is one of the few guild models I'd say that it is worth having full amount of upgrades on. I would normally use him with witch hunt and the bullet of death upgrade (don't know the name think it started with a v). He was a great keep my master away from this area (his threat range model +1-2 obey's) due to not many masters would be long for the world with a rapid fire from him + 2 obeys one a walk getting him in range, second one to witch hunt target, then rapid fire away on said model.

Edited by Odin1981
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how is Francisco amazingly better than poor old sam.... Hehehe there stat lines are almost the same the only difference being Fran has a 2inch longer charge and his Ml is a 7 vs a 6..... they do different things.. (sam can go crazy if you keep him in a terrain heavy area with sonnia about, He turns into a witchling stalker making machine) but as things stand in the staying alive area they are the same...

Francisco's stat-line is not what I'm referring to when I say he's significantly better. It's good, but it's not amazing. Most of what I enjoy about him comes from the very strong utility of his...I want to say duelist ability? The 0 action that gives the opponent :-fate on attack flips. This makes him a very potent off tank. This, paired up with his upgrades to provide the crew with mobility (cover me, I believe) and the hard to kill/healing flip upgrade make it so he can provide a lot of added mobility to the crew and turns him into quite a potent tanking model.

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Fair enough, but given that witchlings and Sonnia are not terribly tanky, I think adding him in for that job is very viable. I've just not been overwhelmed with what Sam's done on the table in games I've played or witnessed, but will be giving him some more time to see if I missed something.

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Awol you said :

Fair enough, but given that witchlings and Sonnia are not terribly tanky, I think adding him in for that job is very viable. I've just not been overwhelmed with what Sam's done on the table in games I've played or witnessed, but will be giving him some more time to see if I missed something.

In my eyes this leads to this problem below:

The problem with that line of thought is this: to do his job he needs to get into place and have his full 2 ap to do what he does (ie offensive piece so kill/threaten areas and models). With sonnia specifically if you do not go out of witchunter theme he cannot do this. At the worst case scenario he needs the judge with the upgrade/spell to move him around out of activation to get him in place to deliever his 2 ap to a target worth burning down. Without dita/her totem/judge he struggles to do his job due to only getting into position in his own activation with at most 1 ap. And even then will struggle to threaten a 4-5 point 6 wound model with only 1 ap. So basically without a external means of positioning him you are limiting yourself to being "lucky" to do his job (ie flipping red joker on attack or damage flip and hoping your opponent doesn't flip/cheat a card in to put him at a - flip for damage.

To get the most out of him you need a external piece to "preposition" him to be ready to pluck 2-3 ap (rapid fire) to threaten at a minimum 3 damage per ap spent on successful hits. If you do not do this he will fail at his damage dealer role. And if you notice on his card he doesn't have anything else on it other than doing damage.

Edited by Odin1981
typo damn computer
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You and I have different definitions of "tank." He's not a damage dealer at all, frankly, though his attacks are decent. His tankiness comes from walking into melee/using "Face Me" to get into melee and then 0 actioning for Duelist. The opponent is now on negative flips for ML actions and anybody who may have been locked in can be pushed out of melee to do rangy things/charge something else/whatever. You have to make a choice between duelist or healing or his reposition ability, certainly, but I like that utility much more (thus far) than Sam's "I do damage, and if you're on fire I do more damage." Frankly, I feel Sonnia and her default crew have lots of damage dealing in it already but not a lot of utility outside of that.

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I classify them as cheap sacrificials. They generally don't hit above their weight class with effieciency anymore (no crit strike) but they are good at still drawing models above their weight class to kill them (costs more than they do).

They give what kills them a burning counter when they die on their aura effect and that then gives sonnia/samuel clear los to them because of that. So often depending on how many you take in your list they can force uneven value trades so you can have a advantage in attrition throughout a game.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I usually bring an executioner with Sonnia so Sam can do his thing on his own.
Exactly this. Sam is not a tank. If you are playing him as a tank, you are playing him wrong. He is a damage dealing monster. If you want a tank, take the Executioner or the Peacekeeper along.Sam is best used hanging at the back with Sonnia, dishing out burning so Sonnia does even more damage and has fun making more Stalkers. And if things get too close, he's pretty decent at ML. In my experience, if Sonnia and Sam gang up on a model in ML, few things survive. But that is a last resort.
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Honestly, I like sam more as a tracer for Sonnia than a straight damage dealer--don't get me wrong, he excels at that, but using him to put burning on 2 or 3 models before Sonnia goes means that I can place blasts pretty much where I want them.

I also tend to place him at least 4-8 inches away from Sonnia so he can target around corners that Sonnia can't see.

I also tend to use Lead lined coat on Sam if he is going to be anywhere near combat. Armor 1 does wonders for his survivability. However, that's more of an always consider than an always take.

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Just got a game in as Tara against Sonnia and Sam this week. My takeaway is, if he's not getting to shoot out some damage, I'm just not sure he's worth taking. The Freikorps Specialist is a less flavorful but significantly more effectively source of burning.

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Well, I haven't faced Tara, nor used the specialist. I also use Sonnia as a tracer for Sam when necessary. I find that him having the versatility to do both is just extremely useful to me, and the extra damage and the ability to place burning on a model 12 inches away and barely visible and then shoot them in the face, followed up by 2 or three flameblasts to the face by Sonnia is a pretty awesome thing. That being said, i may have to pick up a specialist--taking out a few witchlings to put one in might actually give me a better game. It could certainly make certain games more burny, and might actually convince me it is worth the AP to make something everburning.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I've just played a game vs rasputina and my friend (who's a new player) didn't like the new sam. To give out burning +4 is very nasty. He couldn't flip to save his life and I got all the right cards.

The ice golem was brought down in 2 turns, just by burning counters.

But he did manage to smash Sonnia into the ground with a whopping 12 damage (he even had the red joker in hand for cheating :)).

I think this crew will be tough to beat. It's a slow crew, but dishes out the damage in the mid to late game.

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speaking of burning, while Cheruf's shackle from "The Mask" upgrade sounds nice, I don't feel like it is worth taking all that often. I say this because by the time I put it on a model and build up burning, I could have killed or blocked the model already with my crew. Has anyone found it to be worth taking the upgrade for?

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