10T Mei Feng

[nix]

So, tonight I am rolling out to my Tuesday game night with Mei Feng as 10 Thunders. I have a core crew together for her, but am looking for suggestions, pros/cons, and ideas about where to flesh out her crew. Keep in mind, I am looking at 10T here, and pretty much piecing together a general list to play in any scenario.

So, the basics:

Mei Feng + 8 stones

Emberling

Metal Gamin

Rail Golem

That makes the core of my crew 19 points. We typically play at 30ss, so I have 11 left to fill in. I am fairly tempted to just bring in the Torekage and a 10T Brother to flesh out the 11 points. This gives me companion and the Torekage's swapping ability. It leaves me with 2 Rail Walker points to jump to. The other option is to add in a Rail Worker (not a fan) for an additional jump point, or add in a second Metal Gamin for the same purpose. Overall, I have everything released so far for 10T, with the exception of only 1 Rail Worker painted.

Thoughts? Pro's/Cons?

[Ebonstar]

I'm kinda with you on the Rail worker. I tend to go 0-1, unless I am aware of certain scenarios like lots of Slow to Die models, but even then 1 seems to be efficient. Shovel faster is also decent for your core, though.

Willie is someone that is seeing more action for me of late. I like the board control he brings and many opponents feel they have to try to deal with him early, so he will often get the nod for me. Torakage are gonna be great for the placement and the occasional use of smoke bombs to further veil your crew.

[Joel]

I'd be thinking torakage and rail worker myself. The 3rd jump point is important and the torakage swap tricks can really help too. The rail workers are great against armour too.

[nix]

Willie is the one other model who is not painted up (I always forget him....) so will not make it out tonight. I am looking forward to getting him into a couple crews as he seems a ton of fun from both sides of the table.

On the Rail Worker, do you guys feel that the 3rd jump point is still important even through I already have the Torekage for positioning? As I look at it, being able to companion swap with the 10T and Torekage gives me as much reach as a third jump point, and is more flexible for positioning. Basically, it gives Mei 2 ways to position, pre-set Rail Walker spots with the Golem and Gamin, or an alpha strike with the 10T Brother/Torekage. And the Torekage may not burn off a mask from my hand, while Rail Walker will.

[Adran]

I've become more and more impressed with the rail workers as I use them. And I'm still waiting for my Golem, which makes their shovel faster that much better.

They aren't good for getting you to exactly 11 points though, so unless you are prepared to sacrifice some soulstone you might be better off without them.

I would imagine you'll be too spread out to make much of companion.

[Ebonstar]

The way my attack runs with Mei Feng have been working lately is with 2 jump points, so I don't find it critical to have a third, personally, especially with the swap available from Torakage as you pointed out.

[Tograth]

Are you adverse to proxying some models?

if yes, then drop Mei to 7 SS cache and give her 1x wastrel, 1x torakage, and 1x trap.

So, the list:

Mei Feng + 7 stones

Emberling

Metal Gamin

Rail Golem

trap

wastrel

torakage

this gives you 3 jump points, one of which you can preposition, as well as two very fast moving models that you can switch with using the torakage.

Also, taking the torakage and trap combo means that you can use the torakage to go for a turn 2 objective grab if there is something you need to go for.

The other big benefit of the wastrel is that it gives you another hard hitter, as you are currently relying on Mei and the golem to do most of the heavy hitting in the crew.

One thing to also remember is the metal gamin's ability to Heat Metal (iirc). The action that drains burning counters to inflict wounds on a target model.

[nix]

I am trying to stay away from proxying models at this point. I have played a lot of games proxying models from this book so am settling into playing what I have actual (painted) models for at this point.

I agree, the traps brings a whole new view on Mei as 10T, once they release. I am certainly looking forward to that. And my guild, while being slowly evicted from my carry case, is certainly looking forward to Wastrels coming out.

[djkickz]

Yamaziko is another option, you could give up a stone and run Torekage and her.

[FearLord]

If he isn't willing to use unpainted models, I'm guessing proxies are out...I think a Rail worker is a good move personally - I've been pretty pleased with their performance really - their weapons have decent damage and some great abilities (paired is always nice to have even if you don't need the others). I also feel like shovel faster will be important in getting best use out of the Rail Golem... Finally, they are additional Ten Thunder models that can be swapped with Mistaken identity - the Golem and Gamin aren't and do can find themselves not synergising so well with some other models.

That said, I have mostly been okay with just 2 Rail walk targets and have found 10 Thunder Brothers extremely useful (but have been playing lists that are heavy on Ten Thunder models). I have also been using an Archer for some ranged support, but that is mostly because I play Guild mostly and felt weird without some shooting...With my Misaki box finally turning up on last Friday, I'm looking forward to trying Torakage out with her...

Edited November 6, 2012 by FearLord

[ukrocky]

Depends on match up and strategy, any idea what you may be facing?

[Tograth]

Ok then. In that case, go for a torakage and either an archer or Yamaziko. The archer will give you the ranged oomph the crew as a whole is lacking, while Yama will give you some more melee plus a decent heal as well.

The other option instead is Willie plus Yamaziko. You lose out on the swapping with the torakage, but you have the healing and melee aspects of yamaziko while Willie gives you a bit of board control, a really nice ranged attack, and some pretty good melee as well. The biggest thing to worry about is his fragility.

[Odin1981]

I would drop a ss from your cache and roll out a torakage+willie. But thats just me. I think mei is similiar to viks in that you want to handsculpt first 2 turns a bit so you don't have to burn ss's on attempts at triggers. I believe with willie (i think he gives burning counters on ranged book isn't handy so guessing) you can hand out burning via range then adjust your rail line for port in and terminus in to pick up pose (via the kick) then blast away with +damage flips on models that willie burning countered.

[decker_cky]

I don't think Rail Workers are getting enough credit. Aren't they the only models which are eligible both to be used as a railwalking point and to swap places with a tokerage? In terms of mobility, that seems like pretty much the cats pajamas, since they can flexibly be used in different roles. Combines nicely with their attacks, which also are as flexible as can be. When taken away from the competition of large steampunk arachnids, I think rail workers are very good value.

I think it'd be worth testing something like this:

Mei Feng + 8 stones

Emberling

Rail Golem

Rail Worker/Metal Gamin

Rail Worker

Tokerage

[Rameses]

Ten Thunders Crew - 30 - Scrap

Mei Feng

--

7 Pool

Emberling [2ss]

• Metal Gamin
  [5ss]
  
  
• Rail Golem
  [9ss]
  
  
• Ten Thunders Archer
  [6ss]
  
  
• Torakage
  [6ss]
  
  

I guess this is pretty generic for a 10t list, but use the archer/neenja to clean up as Mei is doing her thing bouncing around kicking ash on different minions.

[nix]

Got 2 games in last night to open up out Achievement league. I took some of the advice from this thread for both games.

First game, 30ss. I had Supply Wagon, he had Line in the Sand. Standard Deployment.

Mei v Kaeris

My list:

Mei Feng + 8 stones

Emberling

Rail Golem

Metal Gamin (protecting Mei)

Torekage

10T Brother

I was facing:

Kaeris

2x Fire Gamin

Gunsmith

Willie

Rail Golem

I took exterminate Constructs and Kill Protege.

I ended up moving forward on turn 1, with the intention to craft my hand as much as possible across turns 1 and 2. He pushed Willie forward and pulled the Rail Golem to the far side of the board, so I had the opportunity to go after Willie early. Was able to position the 10T brother and Torekage to take Willie out turn 2 with turn 1 bury shenanigans. Overall the crew worked as I expected. Mei and the Rail Golem were my hitters and big threats. Torekage ended up protecting the Wagon after assassinating Willie. Mei and the Golem went after Kaeris and beat her down, then Mei cleaned up the gunsmith.

Of note, in a Rail Golem on Rail Golem match-up, it really comes down to activation and timing. Its a dicey proposition as a Rail Golem starting in combat with its twin can beat down its twin with the right cards. At the same time, the Rail Golem who charges into combat is not likely to take out the target Golem, leaving itself very vulnerable.

In my first game, having the Torekage for Swapping and then only 2 constructs for Rail Walker worked just fine. My biggest challenge was a plan to use the Torekage to soften up Willie, then swap with Mei. Torekage ended up hitting for severe, leaving me with a reliable kill on Willie without the swap, but leaving the Torekage in the middle of the board and vulnerable.

Game ended with a win to me.

Game 2

This was 10T Mei v 10T Mei. We had different crews, I had Line in the Sand and he had Contain Power. This was a 35ss game, diagonal deployment.

My list:

Mei Feng + 8 stones

Emberling

Rail Golem

Metal Gamin (protecting Mei)

Torekage

10T Brother

Rail Worker

His list:

Mei Feng + 7 Stones

Emberling

2x Rail Workers

Rail Golem

2x 10T Archers

I took grudge on one of the archers and hold out.

I have decided to swap off every other game for the first couple games between 10T brothers and Rail Workers. I am still not a fan of Rail Workers, but there is so much push-back on the boards I figure I will run then through one more try. This game let me put them both in the crew, providing a side-by-side comparison of the Brothers and Workers.

Overall in this game my opponent was hampered a fair bit by not being overly familiar with Archers. I gave him some advice through the game but the archer just did not click for him overall. He had a lot of trouble figuring out when to use Yajiri v Reading the wind, and kept combining a single shot of Focus plus Reading the Wind for very little effect. The game would have been less one sided had he been more comfortable with the archers.

I deployed into three groups, 10T brother/Torekage/Rail Worker to my left, Mei/Metal Gamin/Emberling in the middle and Rail Golem to my right. Each group headed out to handle the markers on thier side of the table. He deployed in a group in the middle of the deployment one and pushed to my left with Archer/Mei/Rail worker group to go after my Torekage/10T brother/Worker group. The Rail Golem/Emberling/Archer went right, going after my Rail Golem but keeping the middle of the board covered.

I was able to flip over the 2 left dynamite markers just as Mei/Archer/Worker started engaging my crew on that side. My Mei positioned outside a ruin, in range of companion from the 10T brother. He was able to kill off the Torekage and the 10T brother over turns 2 and 3 before I could activate in turn 3 and jump into the attack. In return, I was only able to remove the archer, and pulled the rest back toward the middle of the board.

This game had Mei face off with his Golem, being able to do enough damage and bounce between one of his Rail Workers and Golem enough to kill the Golem. The killing blow actually went to the Metal gamin, which black jokered its healing flip or would have lived through the combat. A Metal Gamin/Mei/Emberling alpha strike can be pretty nasty, in this case taking out a Rail Golem at near full health and a Rail Worker at full health. My Rail golem went after his Mei Feng when she moved in, which ended up closer to a draw combat than not. Paired 5 v Df 7 is not an overly favorable match.

As for the comparison of the 10T Brother v Rail Worker. The Rail worker was able to end up using his implacable assault signature attack once v another rail worker. It was ok, but not overly impressive. The 10T brother out performed the Worker on movement, its push attack, and its number of attacks overall. While I did not get a chance to use the companion ability, had I gotten initiative that turn I would have been able to alpha strike 10T Brother/Rail Worker/Mei Feng/Emberling/Torekage against his Mei Feng/Rail Worker, which would have made the 10T brother far more useful and turned the game on turn 2.

Game ended with a win to me.

Overall, I still weigh heavily toward the 10T Brother over the rail worker. Paired/:+fate Damage for 2 attacks at the cost of a low discard was not bad, but not great.

I do very much like Torekage with Mei, at least 1 paired with a 10T brother. I need to try out Yamaziko and some archers still.

[rancor709]

Im having trouble not taking a torekage in virtually every 10t list

[nix]

Im having trouble not taking a torekage in virtually every 10t list

That indicates that your trying not to take them?

The torekage are just great models overall. They are not heavy damage dealers but can get off some surprising hits. They are incredibly flexible and add nicely to combo's while still standing firmly on their own.

Plus, its just fun to say "Neeeenja"

[rancor709]

I wasnt complaining simply hate presenting predictabe patterns of crew selection. They are phenomenal models and open up a lot of options

[Odin1981]

To me they seem like witchling stalkers. In that if you can take them you almost always should include at least 1 in a list.

Question for you Bill. Did you use the melee spell against the rail golem? You know the one that ignores armor and gives out easy to wound 1?

[nix]

I did. It worked well, I was able to bounce it through the Rail Golem and place the blast onto the Rail Worker behind him.

I think the biggest challenge with timing on the Rail Golem is keeping the last attack to kill it through its Hard to Kill so it is not alive to either heal or kill you back.

[Ausplosions]

What is the issue with Rail workers?

I find them to be very good. They have a great defense trigger, weapons for any situation, and they allow Mei to rail walk.

A lot of these lists have 1-2 constructs.

What the hell is Mei doing if you can't rail walk?!

Edited November 7, 2012 by Ausplosions

[DeleteAccount]

My ideas for Mei Feng as a 10 thunders mostly go into this area

Ten Thunders Crew - 35 - Scrap

Mei Feng -- 7 Pool

Emberling [2ss]

Clockwork Trap [2ss]

Clockwork Trap [2ss]

Clockwork Trap [2ss]

Metal Gamin [5ss]

Rail Golem [9ss]

Rail Worker [5ss]

Willie, the Demolitionist [6ss]

I like having a lot of jumping points since I noticed that the moment my jumping points died, Mei Feng felt grounded and it forces me to walk instead of using my casting expert action to move about and with a tome start pilling some damage. I'm hoping that having so many jump points will let me have her where I need her with no trouble. Willie is there mostly for ranged and since I have him though I'd like to consider a Ten Thunders archer or Yamaziko as other optiones.

[Fetid Strumpet]

One of the recent gamers lounge podcasts had a large section on this. Essentially it boiled down to the fact that the Rail worker wasn't bad, per say, it's just that for the limited crews that would use it there are better options that fill the role that the rail workers bring to the table.

In summery the rail workers don't bring anything new and awesome enough to the table to make them a better, or more interesting (mechanically) choice than other models already out who currently exceed the rail workers in those mechanical aspects.

[Ausplosions]

What?

---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 AM ----------

What, if for Mei, is a better option?

They can be the target of a railwalk, the can hand out burning tokens, they can gain armour. They have shapes in the steam.

Another construct can only do some of that, and a Torakage/Archer/etc can't do any of that....

Granted, they may not be the best choice outside a Mei crew, and but we are not discussing that.