ThePandaDirector Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Aces have been the subject of much debate. In First Edition they counted as a value of 1 and double suit, with a opptional extra flip to replace its value (the flipped card's suit was ignored). In my opinion that was a convoluted contradiction of the rules, and I'm happy to see it change. The Unstitched Rules have it as a value of 1 and double suit, and that's it. Reduces its use some, but is still good for Dodging and meeting certain Action Costs. However, some time ago I tested an alternative. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough time to test it thoroughly, but now I thought I'd post it up for some feedback. It's quite simple really. The rule for adding cards has always been "choose a value, add suits", and since I enjoy the extra flip more than the double suit, I thought that Aces could embody that rule. So here it is: Aces have a value of 1. When you Flip or play an Ace, you may Flip an additional Card. Choose between the Value of the Ace and the Flipped Card, then add the Suits together. If you Flip an additional Ace, do not Flip again. Example: Ace of Rams has a value 1:rams. If 10:masks is Flipped then the final total can be either 1:rams:masks or 10:rams:masks. The reason I like this is because in all the games I played, there was at least one occassion when I was desperate (win or lose moments) flipping an Ace of the wrong suit, hoping for both the right value and the right suit. Situations like that really make the Ace the... unreliable Ace up your sleeve. Of course it is really effective for dodging, but you're opponent is more likely to have two different suits than two of the same. Maybe give it a go, and let me know what you think. Edited October 22, 2012 by ThePandaDirector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crohn Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 It's a nice idea, but I have a (stupid?) question: why, referring to your example, should someone choose the value 1 instead of 10? This only makes sense to me during animation to have a lower (possibly lowest) value and animate first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Seems to similar to the "old" mechanic that was universally lauded as to clunky and confusing for players (I dont agree with that however). In the old system it could have had some merit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach_5 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 The old ace rule was confusing only because you were asked to ignore the suit of the second card. Panda's proposed alternative is quick and easy. An ace flipped/played let's you flip an additional card and add it to the total as normal; pick the numerical value you want and add all the suits. You still end up with an ace being worth two suits(though not always the same suit in this case) and you still have the added benefit of a higher numerical value which was a nice perk the old ace rule had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 @crohn: You'll probably never choose the value to be 1*, but that's how the rule for adding cards goes. As Mach-5 points out, the old version ignored the suit, which was a contradiction. Adding suits, but replacing the value would also be a contradiction, because the rules state "choose a value"; doesn't matter how obvious the choice is. *saying that, if you're trying to animate an AR1 puppet first and you flip an Ace of the wrong suit, you could always try and get the right suit in the flip, before picking the value 1 to go first. Unlikely scenario I know. @Omenbringer: The old Ace was too clunky, because it was a contradiction (at least imo). A minor issue I also had was that it was supposed to be double suit, but an Ace's card (regardless of the deck) always has the image of a single suit; a minor visual irritation. It seems from initial feedback, that people miss the extra flip. The double suit is likely to be less effective in this version than last. Plus, it's always nice to have the second chance of flipping the card you need. Anyway, play with the original version a few times, then try this version if you want. This isn't Theory Wars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I don't mind the recommendation as it does reduce the strength of Dodges (in the original rules) which would be a good thing. I agree that it is a bit easier in implementation to just say the Ace flips an additional card and you chose the value and add the Suits. I also agree that the Puppet Decks could have had a double suit printed on them to drive the piint home (but then it would be cinfusing for Malifaux players). Edited October 22, 2012 by Omenbringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damore Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I like the idea flipping an extra card over the double suit. I will test both hopefully this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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