Keeping Misaki Alive

[Nef]

So I have been playing Misaki exclusively since GenCon (proxying her with the book) and I must say so far I'm impressed as a whole. The issue seems to be that she can get bogged down too easily and the only way to save her is to potentially sacrifice a Torakage. I was wondering how you guys would run her?

Suggestions I've heard include moving in, attacking, and running out cheating or soulstoning the defense flip as nessecary.

Or swapping a torakage in and hoping to survive the attack.

Any other ideas?

[djkickz]

I'd imagine running an Orian for lure would help her not have to dive in so deep as well.

[Nef]

True, I don't know my friend keeps saying I "over commit" her but he also runs Collodi. So I think Misaki has some trouble against armies where she get's swarmed too easily.

[Hoyled]

Possibly strategic use of the You're Mine action will help alleviate being swamped. Locking every model except the chosen target into negative melee flips agianst a defense 7 master should alleviate some pressure.

[Iamwyrd]

Misaki is a scalpel. She needs to focus and attack one model at a time. I've found her soloing models that wonder off by themselves is her ultimate target. But like you said your friend plays Collodi so that is a rare occasion for him. Make sure to have ototo, or misaki use their pulse action to give her some room to work.

[Da Git]

I've also been playing her pretty much exclusively for a while now. I have found that there are a few sneaky tricks to making her hard to touch... some of which have been mentioned above. From blatent to ninja-like.

1. Her defence is pretty amazing, cheat in a high card or soulstone and not much will get through it. Also allows to disengage easier.

2. Bring her in with her crew and kill everyone! You can companion her with Yamziko & Shang for a decent alpha strike.

3. Toraswap. I also don't like this one so much as anything that can deal with Misaki can almost certanly deal with Torakage, still better him than her!

4. Oiran can lure her out.

5. Good use of "Your Mine". As said above giving other people to hit compined with good Df is a winner! Just make sure you remember it!! Does this last till the closing phase? If so, you may need to activate early to bring it back up.

6. Possibly the sneakiest, have Shang magical extention her "clear off*" spell on Misaki's opponent, then choose to fail Misaki's Rst and push 3' away (hopefully out of combat & forcing them to waste an AP. Can be used as part of the companion chain.

[FearLord]

2. Bring her in with her crew and kill everyone! You can companion her with Yamziko & Shang for a decent alpha strike.

You can also Companion her with Ten Thunder Brothers, and through them, any other Ten Thunders model...

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 AM ----------

5. Good use of "Your Mine". As said above giving other people to hit compined with good Df is a winner! Just make sure you remember it!! Does this last till the closing phase? If so, you may need to activate early to bring it back up.

'Your Mine' lasts until Misaki targets a different model (I assume with anything) or is no longer engaged with the enemy model, so will last past the end phase.

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------

6. Possibly the sneakiest, have Shang magical extention her "clear off*" spell on Misaki's opponent, then choose to fail Misaki's Rst and push 3' away (hopefully out of combat & forcing them to waste an AP. Can be used as part of the companion chain.

Downburst has no resist (so can be cast automatically on the target) - instead, models within 3" must win a Df -> 13 duel or be pushed, so you won't be able to automatically choose to fail (as it isn't a resist duel) - but you could cheat in a 5 or under to have her fail and push away)...

If you've got a tome, Misaki could also cast Downburst on an enemy model somewhere else within 8" and trigger 'Deadly Dance' to push 5" towards that model (and away from what she was engaged with)...

Its also worth remembering that she can put up 'Shadow' on an enemy model and it lasts for the rest of the encounter (until she uses it again) so could potentially use this to close on targets, 'Melee Expert' to kill them and 3 walks to move her afterwards to a place of safety...

Edited September 21, 2012 by FearLord

[Adran]

I've yet to use her, so its all theory, but I would make sure that she is engaged with the target of You're mine. Save the action until the end of her turn if she is in a swarm, and then target either something with paired attacks (the negative flip has less effect on them anyway), or something with a low defense (can't disengage easily).

Against Collodi I would probably consider using her to kill as many marrionettes as possible before using You're mine on something else. (Alternatively, keep her with her crew and/or pick off the straggling marionettes when Collodi does a big move)

[DeleteAccount]

What I'm seeing is that you can break "You're mine" by disingaging with the marked model and it either ends up dead or out, but in both cases Misaki loses her protection. Of course, depends on if it has activated or not or if you can live without it, but still interesting to keep in mind.

---------- Post added at 05:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 AM ----------

Hell, if it's killable enough I might kill my own model with "You're mine" on it by cheating down to expose Misaki.

[FearLord]

What you also have to keep in mind with 'You mine!' is that she has 'Wicked' so she will struggle to keep a model engaged with her without killing it herself if it tries to disengage from her...

I think Torakage swapping will save her from the worst situations, Your mine! Will help her, but won't save her from a determined assault - I think Downburst from Shang, followed by Lure from a Oiran and Smoke Bombs from a Torakage is the best bet, and will probably need a Ten Thunder's Brother so it can all be done together...

Not an every turn move, but useful for scalpelling out an enemy model or two. Ultimately, timing and misdirection are going to be key when trying to keep her safe...

[nilus]

2. Bring her in with her crew and kill everyone! You can companion her with Yamziko & Shang for a decent alpha strike..

Bring a 10T Thunder Brother and you can companion every 10 thunder model within 6"

Like others have said, she needs to pull out a lone model and kill it.

Lure someone out with Oiran, swap move Misaki up with a Torakage, Kill the model, Torakage out.

[Sholto]

What is the exact wording on Downburst? Which model are they Pushed away from - the target of the spell or the caster?

[nilus]

What is the exact wording on Downburst? Which model are they Pushed away from - the target of the spell or the caster?

Enemy model, but note its a 4" push away and not directly away so you can to some creative positioning with the models that fail.

[dgraz]

Bring a 10T Thunder Brother and you can companion every 10 thunder model within 6"

Like others have said, she needs to pull out a lone model and kill it.

Lure someone out with Oiran, swap move Misaki up with a Torakage, Kill the model, Torakage out.

That's a lot of points just to scalpel out one model. Oiran, 2 Torakage, and a 10T Bro.....21ss.

[decker_cky]

That's a lot of points just to scalpel out one model. Oiran, 2 Torakage, and a 10T Bro.....21ss.

It's not like you lose all those models in pulling off the combo. At most, 1 tokerage is put in danger per turn from this. If you're really successful, it's not even really in the thick of things. Even if it does get swarmed, as long as it survives that turn, you could then Tokerage Misaki in, have her go crazy, then Tokerage her out.

Actually...this idea is really making me consider a Mei Feng list with a few Tokerage, since she excels at jumping into a pile of enemies and jumping from target to target. Having a Tokerage back door out, or even following up by railwalking out with the casting expert AP could work really well. Railwalking out would mean that both Mei and the Tokerage are out of danger at the end of the turn.

[dgraz]

It's not like you lose all those models in pulling off the combo.

I don't mean you're losing them. You're using them. For that Misaki attack. That's it. They're not really doing anything else. 21 points (plus Misaki's value) just so Misaki can kill one thing. That's a huge investment for small return.

Not that it doesn't have it's uses. I could see maybe using it once a game. The ability to jump into the middle of the enemy crew and kill the Hungering Darkness in one or two shots (hooray for magical Bisento) and freely escape is huge, no doubt. If nothing else, just having the ability to do it makes your opponent worry about it. But I see it as more of a gimmick than something to always try to use.

When I was playing her, I used her to pick off isolated targets. Preferably positioning her so she is out of LoS to most of the enemy crew. With her reach and Diving Charge she can use severe/obscuring (read 'woods') to her advantage. I tried to have her activate later in the turn so my opponent would have less activations to deal with her that turn and activate her early in the next turn if needed (or Tora-swap her). Having a buried Torakage pop up next to her for support is nice too.

The rest of the crew focused on strats and schemes and dealing with the bulk of the enemy crew.She still pretty easily takes out one model per turn.

[nilus]

That's a lot of points just to scalpel out one model. Oiran, 2 Torakage, and a 10T Bro.....21ss.

Yeah but those models are not just there to do that one thing. Its just one tool they can pull off together. Seperatly they are all very good models that can do a number of other actions and abilities to support the crew and complete objectives.

[decker_cky]

I don't mean you're losing them. You're using them. For that Misaki attack. That's it. They're not really doing anything else. 21 points (plus Misaki's value) just so Misaki can kill one thing. That's a huge investment for small return.

Not that it doesn't have it's uses. I could see maybe using it once a game. The ability to jump into the middle of the enemy crew and kill the Hungering Darkness in one or two shots (hooray for magical Bisento) and freely escape is huge, no doubt. If nothing else, just having the ability to do it makes your opponent worry about it. But I see it as more of a gimmick than something to always try to use.

Depends on the target, but if you look at it piecemeal, what you really need is a Tokerage positioned so it's close to where a model will end up if it gets lured towards an Oiran. If the Lure works and it's a model worth putting the attention on, you can do the rest of the combo. If not, you really haven't lost anything. In a given turn, using 21 SS of models and a master to kill an 8+SS model is often well worth it to take a linchpin out of enemy lines.

[dgraz]

Yeah but those models are not just there to do that one thing. Its just one tool they can pull off together.

That's kinda what I'm trying to say. You're blurb above only mentioned the one thing...I was trying to point out that you shouldn't be building you're crew around that one trick. I guess I wasn't very clear......hadn't had enough coffee yet ;p

[Ghaz]

How about using a Student of Conflict for the totem? I know you'd lose Shang which is a shame, but it does set up for a nice slingshot unless I'm missing something.

Have the student cast fast on a Torakage then send Misaki in to do her thing. Once she is done the Torakage can use Mistaken Identity to get her out of there then Shadow Stride and unbury the by the student and Misaki ready to do it again the next turn. Toss in a 10T bro and you can alpha Misaki and the Torakage to ensure that she gets in and out without giving your opponent a chance to target her.

I haven't actually tried this so its all theory, but it should work, right? Sounds too good to me so I must be missing something...

[Da Git]

How about using a Student of Conflict for the totem? I know you'd lose Shang which is a shame, but it does set up for a nice slingshot unless I'm missing something.

Have the student cast fast on a Torakage then send Misaki in to do her thing. Once she is done the Torakage can use Mistaken Identity to get her out of there then Shadow Stride and unbury the by the student and Misaki ready to do it again the next turn. Toss in a 10T bro and you can alpha Misaki and the Torakage to ensure that she gets in and out without giving your opponent a chance to target her.

I haven't actually tried this so its all theory, but it should work, right? Sounds too good to me so I must be missing something...

This sounds really good! I can't find any fault in your logic. If you don't have the Bro then it can leave her open for an activation, but with good use of "you're mine", she should be able to mimise return harm (aside from her being hardcore in general). You could also bring in the Oiran to help isolate models.

[ommadon]

I've been thinking about mixing in Graves to use his push if your most likely dealling with bricks of crews pick a point between the master and most of the brick push them apart send in Misaki on the otherside or at angel to push even further. Through is brothers for companion and them maybe also torakage for the swap

[Adran]

Played a game yesterday -Starterbox Mei Feng vs Misaki and I see what the concern is, but its about picking targets.

Misaki had kill protogee on Kang, and she achieved this on turn 2

And despite him beign in the midst of my whole crew except Mei Feng, Misaki managed to survive all those rail worker attacks. Whilst she was eventually killed, it was only Mei Feng who go any damage on her, and she took out a fair chunk of my crew and held up the rest.

The Misaki player also used the Torkarage in force to engage me, having all 3 appear at the end of turn 1 ready for Misaki to strike at Kang.

In smaller games, there are probably only 1 or 2 models that can really hurt her in any crew anyway, so when she kills one of them off, she is probably fairly safe.

I do agree though in 35+ games you will need much more care in where to place her. at least until you don'r have as many big hitters.

But to prevent her scapel effect, your opponent will need to move en mass, allowing the rest of the board to run free so even if she never gets an isolated model she has still done her job

[EnternalVoid]

I do agree though in 35+ games you will need much more care in where to place her. at least until you don'r have as many big hitters.

But to prevent her scapel effect, your opponent will need to move en mass, allowing the rest of the board to run free so even if she never gets an isolated model she has still done her job

This about the larger games, it is why in 35ss I am going to really consider the Student of Conflict and Torakage trick from a few posts back. If you add in a 10T Brother you can make it all a single go with companion and prevent any retaliation all together. It becomes a 15ss feature but all points of of the combo can do other things if you see the need, none of them are entirely built around this one combo that they can't do anything else. It is also low enough I can build in some other tricks still and create flexible options.

The ability to have Misaki, Student, Torakage, and 10T Brother companion makes this a fairly 'safe' scaplel attack as long as you are not facing something that can charge vast distance or ignore LOS and terrain on the charge. Due to the 10T Brother and the student's companion you can have all activate together. Misaki can go on her assault, if necessary going reckless. If she is close enough, she can just diving charge, if necessary she can move once due to Reckless and then Diving charge. If you go with the second option though she can still get two attacks on her target. At which point the Student can then go, give the Torakage fast, and then the Torakage can use its 0 action for the masks and use the Mistaken Identity and Shadow Stride to get Misaki and itself out of danger. The only thing to keep in mind is the limit on the range of the Torakage's abilities and needing a 7 and 8 in hand to insure that the Torakage can properly extract Misaki and itself. The only other problem I can see with it is that it takes up 4 of your activations in one go, so unless you took some cheap options beside it, you are going to be outactivated likely and possible eat up around half of your activations in a single go.

[Kadeton]

I think the other problem with that trick, aside from the positioning, minor card requirements, and out-activation, is the ability for your opponent to shut it down by taking out key models - i.e. any of the four. You're spending a big chunk of points on a synergy trick (which is not to say that those models are useless otherwise, but you could probably take things that were more effective) which is rarely a good plan, in my opinion. Most opponents should find it easy to take out at least the Student from the sort of effective range you're talking about.

I'm not convinced it's worth spending the effort on a maneuver that should only ever work once. These kind of boomerang shots are always popular in Theoryfaux, but I find they're rarely worth it in practice.