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Yan Lo, our new friend


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Well, I do hope I can manage to keep my ancestors alive at least the first couple of turns before I need to resurrect, that and spiritfying them will help a TON with their survibability. Still both amazing spells no doubt. To top it off, is the heal a normal healing flip on an ancestor that requires a ram or is there more to it?

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so hyped for this guy. Is building a swarm list with him, trying to lvl him as much as possible, viable or more of a gimick?

a swarm style list works very well with him with Toshiro. lots of punk zombies / ashigaru, or even dogs, works well with the paired he gives out. The big thing to realise with Yan lo is that you want ot run him with toshiro - toshiro fills the normal rezzer summoner role much more than Yan does, and the two complement each other well.

The one thing that *doesnt* tend to work out in Yans favour is the whole rezzer farming technique where they kill their own models for stuff. Since yan does not gain chi from ancestors or mindless zombies, the main two methods for corpse counter use are not effective (read: killing ancestors for corpse counters, and using rafkin to farm doggies).

Datsu ba works ok with Yan, and can give a limited method of early chi generation, but even that is very crow intensive and doesnt really work out that effective.

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

Well, I do hope I can manage to keep my ancestors alive at least the first couple of turns before I need to resurrect, that and spiritfying them will help a TON with their survibability. Still both amazing spells no doubt. To top it off, is the heal a normal healing flip on an ancestor that requires a ram or is there more to it?

the heal needs a 4 :crows to cast, and heals an ancestor 2 Wd.

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Well, cheap enough of a heal and reliable, nice dump spell if you don't have anything better to do. I am noticing that he is mostly about the tomes and crows then.

As for list wise, he seems very varied on what he can reach for. Do you feel Toshiro will be a necesity? I was warming to the idea of spirit heavy core with Izamu and maybe Yin as ancestors running about to try and break with my initiol preconception of Toshiro.

Also, changing it a bit, what relic bonuses do all the ancestors give out to Yan Lo? I know toshiro's and Izamu's, but no idea on Chiaki and Yin.

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I dont think Toshiro will be necessary, no. I think Yan has a wide variety of different options, most of which are viable in game, and that just gets better when you take into account the fact he can run as a 10 thunder master as well.

The big thing with Toshiro is that he's very strong all round as a buff piece. He doesnt have the greatest damage, but can really help the entire crew with his daimyo aura and teki o juden (his movement 0). That, coupled with his summon makes him awesome. I've turned games around when Yan has died and Toshiro performed almost like a second master.

I can see all of the ancestors beign viable in their own right, either by themselves or with other ancestors. The main exception to that is chiaki - she's very much a support piece, but by gods is she good at it.

She has a 1 action that forces non living models in range to take a Df duel or receive slow. That, coupled with her healing`, pushes and effect removal abilities makes her really nice.

so, with regards ancestors and their relics:

toshiro gives teki o juden and daimyo

izamu gives spiritual fortitude and the eternal warrior trigger

chiaki gives pull of the grave (the pulse slow)

yin gives anathema, wicked and terrifying->12.

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Mmmm, anathema and terrifying are damn sweet bonuses indeed, though I'd imagine most times it's better to reraise the ancestor than keep the extra rules unless you plan to shoot a lot, right?

I've heard a lot of people praising the hell out of Chiaki's support abilities. I think from what I understand her condition removal is a pulse that removes conditions for each crow in the cast I believe or something like that, but her heal I have no idea. Is it AOE ir single target? and any weird restrictions with it?

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Weight of Ages is his best ability. That damage output can get scary fast. There is no :ranged icon on it, so blast it into Melee.

And holy cow Melee master!! 5ap on this guy once he gets going. Charge for a (1), attack 2 more times and then start busting out the Weight of Ages.

The Chi paths are gonna be a lot of fun for him. Do I want to be a full on caster and get Riggor Mortis? or do I want to get Def 7 and go charge into Melee and bust up some fools.

So... when does he release?

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chiakis heal is an ability on her. Any friendly model activating within 2" of her heals 1 wound. This also means she heals at the start of her activation...

you are correct about her removal too. its one non sacrifice effect per crow on the casting from *each* model in range.

one thing with her is that she becomes much more mobile and semi survivable when she is ressurected, as she drops to 6 Wd and gains spirit when she is brought back.

She also has two different methods for removing undead. If a friendly model is in btb with her, they lose undead while in btb, and the other option is a spell - an aura that does the same thing.

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McMourning should also appreciate Toshiro too seeing how they don't parasite each other's resources and lets the punks keep up with McMourning and the dogs.

As for Chiaki, she is huuuuuuge, giving efective regen 1 to everybody 3" from her is nice enough, but being able to remove insignificant, burning tokens, slow, paralize and similar shenanigans makes her almost an autoinclude from the avoiding unexpected evils standpoint.

Though a very dumb question I hadn't thought of yet. Is Yan Lo living?

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Chiaki has a spell to push away all undead units, my guess is thats what purity is. Embrace death is Nicodem's ability to count as undead for spells.

So Chiaki can shove nicodem up the table up to 6 inches with a single casting of purity (huge push by the way)

Or I'm totally wrong.

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Chiaki has a spell to push away all undead units, my guess is thats what purity is. Embrace death is Nicodem's ability to count as undead for spells.

So Chiaki can shove nicodem up the table up to 6 inches with a single casting of purity (huge push by the way)

Or I'm totally wrong.

I believe it affects "Non-Living". So that's not Nicodem, as he can choose to be Undead, he can't choose to be "Non-Living".

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The moment you are undead you are intermediately considered to be a non living model. Basically, treat Nicodem as if he was an undead piece (ignores morale duels, buffs) except for the things that explicitly are bad for him.

That is true, but if that spell (Whose wording I do NOT have) affects non-living, then Nicodem would not be affected as his ability allows him to be affected by things that target undead. That spell does not, apparently.

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I believe it affects "Non-Living". So that's not Nicodem, as he can choose to be Undead, he can't choose to be "Non-Living".

Actually Undead are non-living, so when he chooses to be undead, he automatically becomes non-living.

The controversial issue, if you are right about the spell affecting "non-living", is whether he can choose to take the spell as an Undead model even when the spell doesn't specify it affects Undead. I'd say if the spell's effect changes due to him taking it as an Undead, it's enough, but I'm not sure.

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My thought process on Nicodem and the Purity-push:

Nicodem can choose to take on the Undead characteristic (thereby becoming non-living) when affected by a talent or spell that affects Undead.

Purity's push works on non-living (affects non-living)

Undead are non-living, therefore the push affects Undead.

Nicodem can choose to be Undead when the push is cast.

Things would be very different if Nicodem's ability said "when affected by a spell or talent that targets Undead", but it doesn't say that.

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Embrace Death says that he can choose to be affected by spells and abilities that affect Undead. That spell does not.

He is also affected by terrifying.

Terryfying is a different issue though. It is something Undead wouldn't be affected by, so he cannot choose to take it as Undead. The discussed spell may not target Undead, but it still affects them and that is all the Embrace Death requires to work.

As I said, issue isn't as straight-forward as you may think, because Embrace Death is not about spell wording, but about Undead being affected by a spell. As long as it is a spell and it affects Undead, he can choose to be Undead.

Let's say you have a spell which paralyzes any type of model. Does it affect Undead? Yes it does. Can he take it as Undead? Yes he can, though it makes absolutely no difference. See?

As it is worded the spell doesn't need to have a specific Undead-targetting component for him to use Embrace Death. All it needs to be is something Undead aren't immune to or non-affected by, so he cannot use it to avoid getting affected by spells or talents (as those do not affect Undead).

This seems to be the RAW, anyway.

---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Things would be very different if Nicodem's ability said "when affected by a spell or talent that targets Undead", but it doesn't say that.

Exactly my point, put in much clearer way.

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I am not saying that terrifying proves anything, just giving another instance of how embrace death does not do something that I have found some people to believe that it does.

Terrifying is an ability. Its "affecting" Nicodem, if he were undead he would not be affected.

Edited by Gruesome
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I am not saying that terrifying proves anything, just giving another instance of how embrace death does not do something that I have found some people to believe that it does.

My first sentence in the original post closes the book on the spell in question and Embrace death. It does not target undead, so Embrace death is never an option.

Please go and read Embrace Death again. I'm sorry to say that, but you do not understand why Nicodem cannot avoid Terrifying through Embrace Death and you are entirely wrong on the second part of your post.

Embrace Death works whether spell targets Undead or not. It requires spells to affect Undead. It doesn't work on Terrifying, because Terrifying doesn't affect Undead at all.

If you cast the spell in question on a regular Undead model, would it be affected? Yes, since it is non-living. Since it affects Undead, Nicodem can use Embrace Death. As simple as that. Word "target" does not appear in here at all.

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