Diving in, need some advice

[i_like_tool]

So after talking up this game for a while, I haven't played yet honestly but will be doing a lot of testing of different masters tonight, I talked some other friends to joining in too. The idea of no dice plus the look of the game, and relatively cheap to get a force going, has us all hooked to try it some.

We've kicked around the idea of who to get and what not and decided we will start off by buying 4 different "starter" boxes. Basically one from each faction and that is what brings me here. What are some good starters from each of the factions?

Mind you we aren't wanting "the most broken"(I don't buy into the whole broken thing anyways just adapt and learn) and we are not afraid of complicated casters.

If we were to grab one of the henchmen boxes as one of the 4, are they at a disadvantage against the Masters right away or with the right the playstyle/experience can they hang just fine with them?

Some of the Masters/Henchmen I was considering, based really soley on look and generic descriptions, was:

Neverborn:

1) Collodi - His look is fantastic and the rules seem quite interesting. I know his army selection will be somewhat limited but still. Very intriguing.

2) Zoradi - Great looking model can cast Obey and mess with your opponent. Awesome sounding stuff. Will she end up $$$$$$$$ing off people learning the game though? That's my only concern

3) Lilith - The alt sculpt is nice and her minions are diverse.

Arcanist:

1) Ramos - Constructs? Check. Great looking model? Check. And his rules seem solid enough

2) Marcus - Beast master has my gf excited but I hear he is somewhat weak. Bad first master to learn from or can he be strong with the right support?

Ressurectionist

1) Seamus - Nice model and henchmen

2) McMourning - Can create Frakenstein model and likes getting into melee some? Sweet

Outcast:

1) Gremelin master. Can't remember his name. Not "beginner" friendly but looks fun and spawns more minions.

2) The Viktorias - 2 model masters and seems intriguing

Guild:

1) Lady Justice - Seems relatively straight forward to play

2) Perdita Ortega - Gun slinging chick with triggers to shoot more. Cool

Out of those I listed, or those I didn't, should any be avoided as they might be hard to play against starting out? Any advice for getting people into the game? The more info you can all give me the more I'll love you

Thanks for reading my long post btw

[Bruglyother]

If you are really looking into a crew, don't let it's complexity put you off. Any crew can be learned by anyone of any experience if they really want to learn.

Besides, none of the Masters you listed would fall into the hugely complicated category. For some of them, there are levels of play that may take you a while to grasp, but the basics of each of them are pretty straight forward.

Regarding the Arcanists, Ramos is a good choice. Marcus can be quite powerful, but in order to do so, you have to invest in a lot of different models so he has the options he needs for each circumstance. Ramos can be a lot more straightfoward.

Viktorias are very easy to learn. Not much subtlety to the crew.

I only have played outcast and arcanist so far, so I will leave the others for other people to give you feedback. One suggestion I would make though is don't get Lilith, Lady J, and the Viktorias. Any one or two of them would be fine, but all three will get a bit repetetive. While they each have their own distinctions, on the surface they are all face beating Masters. If you are looking for variety for learning, the combination of those three would not really accomplish that. Otherwise, lot's of variation in your list of considerations, so have fun with it.

[i_like_tool]

Thanks for the response!! We are leaning toward

Perdita Ortega for some ranged goodness.

The Viktorias for melee goodness

Collodi strictly based upon his amazing look. I can't get over how creepy he looks and is sorta a swarm army?

The 4th person we are somewhat stuck on. I am leaning toward Ramos but not sure how much of a "caster" he is compared to say Rasputina who is just a caster basically

Seem like a good mix so far or are the point values so skewed with these list?

Digging into it I see

Ortega 25

Ramos would be 28

Viktorias 24

and Collodi only 17

That strikes me as HUGE point difference? Should I add models to get him closer in point cost or will this be somewhat balanced still? Really need advice here please

[Bruglyother]

Ramos is a bit of a combination of Summoner and Caster.

The Viktoria Box set lacks synergy. Not to say it isn't good, just no real synergy. You will also find that the Viktorias need a soulstone pool, but they have no cache.

Essentially, the three Master based boxes you list will run fairly well at 30 stone level. Well enough to learn the game and be fairly balanced against each other. In time you will want to add to them and make substitutions, but you probably already figured that out.

As for Collodi, there is no getting around the fact that he does not match up stone wise. So, in short, yes, you will have to add models to bring him up to the stone level of the others. You might actually be better going with Zoraida with the intent of adding Collodi later. Zoraida on her own isn't too nasty of an opponent, especially if you are focusing on her box set. If you do have your heart set on Collodi, look into the effigies as ways to boost his stone count.

Ultimately, no matter what you get, you will want more models in time just for variety. Ramos in particular will need an electrical creation just to be able to use one of his spells, as will the Viktorias with Ronin (although Ramos will get more use out of his spell.)

Hope this helps more.

[Clement]

I might reccommend against collodi only because of the point difference going in will need lots of extra models to balance it out. Take a look at zorida's box again. She will dovetail nicely with collodi when you get him (and it will happen).

And if your looking at obey against only your oponents models... your missing half the fun

[Cats Laughing]

You will want more models for collodi to balance the points. Shoot for 25 for starters.

As for Ramos, since he can summon more spiders, consider dropping a few from your beginning list to even out the points there as well and give you extra models to summon.

Remember that for Masters, unspent "stones" get added to their soulstone cache. Henchmen have slightly different rules there.

[i_like_tool]

Ramos is a bit of a combination of Summoner and Caster.

The Viktoria Box set lacks synergy. Not to say it isn't good, just no real synergy. You will also find that the Viktorias need a soulstone pool, but they have no cache.

Interesting. May drop them for a Resurrectionist starter than. Thank you!

Essentially, the three Master based boxes you list will run fairly well at 30 stone level. Well enough to learn the game and be fairly balanced against each other. In time you will want to add to them and make substitutions, but you probably already figured that out.

As for Collodi, there is no getting around the fact that he does not match up stone wise. So, in short, yes, you will have to add models to bring him up to the stone level of the others. You might actually be better going with Zoraida with the intent of adding Collodi later. Zoraida on her own isn't too nasty of an opponent, especially if you are focusing on her box set. If you do have your heart set on Collodi, look into the effigies as ways to boost his stone count.

Ultimately, no matter what you get, you will want more models in time just for variety. Ramos in particular will need an electrical creation just to be able to use one of his spells, as will the Viktorias with Ronin (although Ramos will get more use out of his spell.)

Hope this helps more.

We aren't opposed to grabbing another model or 2 out of the gate to ensure we get the most use out of our casters. I know Z will need the terror totem(think that's the name, don't have the book next to me)

Any suggestions for a Resurrectionist caster to try out instead of the Viktorias?

I might reccommend against collodi only because of the point difference going in will need lots of extra models to balance it out. Take a look at zorida's box again. She will dovetail nicely with collodi when you get him (and it will happen).

And if your looking at obey against only your oponents models... your missing half the fun

I actually completely love Zorida but wasn't sure how much she might $$$$$$$$ off other newer players to the game lol. From her fluff, to model choices and spells....very very nice looking. I am sure my friends will figure out very quickly how to beat/get around her as I will adapt too but don't want someone that might drain the fun out of the game too quickly lol

You will want more models for collodi to balance the points. Shoot for 25 for starters.

As for Ramos, since he can summon more spiders, consider dropping a few from your beginning list to even out the points there as well and give you extra models to summon.

Remember that for Masters, unspent "stones" get added to their soulstone cache. Henchmen have slightly different rules there.

More points should be easy enough if I go Collodi. Drop in something like

Collodi

- 4 Marionettes

-3 Wicked things

-2 or 3 Stitched togethers

and or a Effigy

Should give a interesting mobile force of doom. But might jade my opponets some with very high movement/high activation order out of the gate.

The more I think of it the more I think maybe Lilith of Zoridia will be better for starting off although Lilith will want a Young Nephilim for the Terror tots to change into

BTW thank you for the replies, it is much appreciated while we hammer out exactly what to get.

Good to see that our Guild Choice seems solid enough just to need to tweak the Outcast and Nevermore

[dgraz]

Perdita is great.

Viktorias are great...although I would advise a blister of ronin to start with.

Zoraida is great....she is a little bit more complicated but I don't think she is too bad and I don't believe she would sap the fun out of the game. Especially if you're all learning at the same time....as Zoraida is learning how to use her cool tricks, the others are learning how to mitigate them. She does need her totem to start with...the Voodoo Doll. When you get Collodi, he works insanely well if he is led by Zoraida and is a lot of fun.

I personally prefer Raspy for magic blasting goodness but you would need to get at least one Silent One to run with her and the Essence of Power totem would be great also.

[Barnaberible]

Personally I would be tempted to go with

Resser - seamus

Arcanists - kaeris (henchman)

Outcasts - Vicks

Guild - sonya criid or Perdita

The reason being is that these box sets contain the most models that are reasonably simple to learn with and also (and more importantly) contain models that you will want to use with other masters.

Seamus has rotten belles that run great with mcmourning (where as the mcmourning box has 2 nurses, and you'll be pushed to use one)

Kaeris has gunsmiths which fit in well with all other Arcanist crews, Vicks have Johan and tailor which can be used elsewhere and Sonia has witching stalkers / Perdita has niño which are often used with other maters.

I can't really comment on neverborne

[Gruesome]

For initial boxes to get into the game, we like:

Guild - Perdita or LadyJ. Both so solid and fundamental. Hard to choose. I might lean towards Perdita simply because of what I'd recommend for Neverborn covering Melee pretty well.

Rezzer - Seamus. So much flavor. Avoid the "balance" debates and all that when starting out. For a new group, Seamus will do fine and there is not a weak model in the box.

Arcanist - Rasputina. Nice to have a nuker and ice walls bring a fun and different mechanic to your games for some variety.

Neverborn - Lillith. some very nice beatdown capability while also starting to introduce some of the Neverborn tricksiness...

Outcast - I do not have an opinion here.

With the four boxes recommended above, you cover ranged, melee, nukes and a little undead hooker action, which is pretty much the pyramid of goodness if I remember correctly.

[Bruglyother]

I knew it was just a matter of time before others jumped in on this.

The most important thing is that the models and/or fluff appeal to you. Don't forget that in all your deliberation. I have seen players get into a crew because others have suggested it, only to be turned off later due to lack of interest/inspiration.

If you are not against picking up additional models to get full use of box-sets without going overboard, here are some suggestions based on your interest.

Perdita - Nothing is really needed as far as I've seen. She really is one of the best learning crews because she is straightforward and good out of the box.

Ramos - An Electrical Creation is a must as you can't use one of his spells without it. A mobile toolkit is a very good idea as it makes him easier to use effectively.

Viktorias - (if you are still going this route) They can play out of the box well enough. Ronin are often a good starting addition due to one of the Viks spells.

Zoraida - Voodoo Doll. Like Ramos, one of her abilities is useless without the model.

If you are dropping the viks, Lilith would be a good choice to fill in on the melee crew side of things. For her, add a blister of young and you are good to go for starting out.

As you have seen, lots of people recommend Seamus for a starting Resser. He's pretty good out of the box and fairly straightforward at the basics, although there is plenty of subtlety to learn as time goes by.

[Saint Norton]

I'm a big fan of the starter box + a blister for starting crews. Lets you make up much more rounded crews right off the bat and can give a little diversity to games.

For the different factions my reccemendations would be:

Resser:

Seamus box + punk zombie/crooked man blister - Some good control from the belles, the zombie/crooked man blister will add some nice combat punch or ranged attacks depending on which you take.

Arcanist:

Ramos box + electrical creation - the EC is one of ramos's best spells and not having thhe model / card for it really hamstrings him, i'd probably add the mobile toolkit here as well as both are cheap blisters. Helps add to the feel of ramos as a 'caster' as well getting the extra spell / turn out of the totem.

Neverborn:

Lillith box + young nephilim - Gives you options to grow, adds a pair of very solid mid-point minions.

Outcasts:

Victorias box + ronin blister - Gives some diversity to the crew, adds the addition of some magic weapons and mid-range shooting.

guild:

Lady justice + austringer - good mix of mellee beater masters with some solid henchmen.

Each box + blister should be around $50-55 off the top of my head? All should be able to play 30 ss games iwth a little variation too.

[nurglez]

I prefer Perdita to Lady j, as you have decent shooting + semi decent melee, and teaches you that your own models are disposable (papa loco).

Viktoria's are nice, I really want to collect them, though as a friend of mine already has them I will have to wait, and maybe just get some to include in brawls.

Lillith is great, fought against her many times. Melee beat stick plus a few other abilities and very tough (like perdita).

I'm awaiting delivery of Collodi, the master of puppets (eat your breakfast off a mirror!) himself sounds great fun to play with, and as I have the dreamer I don't need to buy stiched together for him

I have been looking at seamus, as the only res master I'm interested in, but as I have several models to glue together, yet alone paint, he will have to wait (along with the Vik's). Seamus seem's quite a good choice for a beginner, as he has a lot of healing abilities.

[i_like_tool]

First off thanks again for all the new replies, makes me feel all warm and coozy inside lol

For initial boxes to get into the game, we like:

Guild - Perdita or LadyJ. Both so solid and fundamental. Hard to choose. I might lean towards Perdita simply because of what I'd recommend for Neverborn covering Melee pretty well.

Arcanist - Rasputina. Nice to have a nuker and ice walls bring a fun and different mechanic to your games for some variety.

Neverborn - Lillith. some very nice beatdown capability while also starting to introduce some of the Neverborn tricksiness...

With the four boxes recommended above, you cover ranged, melee, nukes and a little undead hooker action, which is pretty much the pyramid of goodness if I remember correctly.

Sweet thanks. This settles the Guild choice with Perdita and Neverborn with Lililth. I'll personally expand to all of the other ones, except Pandora, within the next month or 2. I simply say no to pandora as I don't care for her model. I'll be the main neverborn player and love so much of the look of the models and perceived playstyle of the faction.

I knew it was just a matter of time before others jumped in on this.

Once again, very glad for more replies lol

The most important thing is that the models and/or fluff appeal to you. Don't forget that in all your deliberation. I have seen players get into a crew because others have suggested it, only to be turned off later due to lack of interest/inspiration.

If you are not against picking up additional models to get full use of box-sets without going overboard, here are some suggestions based on your interest.

Perdita - Nothing is really needed as far as I've seen. She really is one of the best learning crews because she is straightforward and good out of the box.

Ramos - An Electrical Creation is a must as you can't use one of his spells without it. A mobile toolkit is a very good idea as it makes him easier to use effectively.

Viktorias - (if you are still going this route) They can play out of the box well enough. Ronin are often a good starting addition due to one of the Viks spells.

Zoraida - Voodoo Doll. Like Ramos, one of her abilities is useless without the model.

If you are dropping the viks, Lilith would be a good choice to fill in on the melee crew side of things. For her, add a blister of young and you are good to go for starting out.

As you have seen, lots of people recommend Seamus for a starting Resser. He's pretty good out of the box and fairly straightforward at the basics, although there is plenty of subtlety to learn as time goes by.

Very very true in terms of picking what we like/want and not necessarily what others think is "best" or what not. We are going to drop Viks for Lilith and contemplating dropping Ramos for Rasputina for a straight out caster. I'm letting another friend decide this one as he'll most likely play them

I'm a big fan of the starter box + a blister for starting crews. Lets you make up much more rounded crews right off the bat and can give a little diversity to games.

For the different factions my reccemendations would be:

Arcanist:

Ramos box + electrical creation - the EC is one of ramos's best spells and not having thhe model / card for it really hamstrings him, i'd probably add the mobile toolkit here as well as both are cheap blisters. Helps add to the feel of ramos as a 'caster' as well getting the extra spell / turn out of the totem.

Neverborn:

Lillith box + young nephilim - Gives you options to grow, adds a pair of very solid mid-point minions.

Thanks! Glad to know my idea to need/want the Young Nephilim is correct. Also good to know what to grab Ramos if we stick with him, a few people suggested some other models and we will look into all of them!!!

So another question!!!! Since everyone has been so helpful, figured I'd throw out one more

So we settled on the Guild Box Ortega and Neverborn box Lilith

A buddy of mine is deciding the Arcanist box between Ramos and Rasputina which.....

Leaves us with one more box between Outcast or the Resurrectionist. I know everyone is suggesting Seamus(think that's his name) but how about......

Kirai. We just got done reading the fluff and my girl LOVES the whole horror theme, specifically has a soft spot for Japanese style horror, and is thrilled looking at the model. I'm pretty sure that means I'll be going her route. I know she can summon more models as the game progresses.....

What models are MUST HAVE purchases with her starter?

Gaki? Onryo? A Ikiryo?

Also, as I might be missing some rules here, how is she getting back the wds she seems to bleed to get new spirits?

Is there a interaction with her spirits or is she using actions to get healing flips? Thanks again so much

[Gruesome]

Kirai is fantastic on all fronts. She gets a little grief now and then because of her stark differences from other Rezzers, but that does not matter.

She is quite powerful, even for newer players.

If you get her box, you need at a minimum:

Lost Love

2 blisters of Seishin

At least one blister of Gaki

At least one Shikome.

[dgraz]

Kirai is awesome, not my choice but there's no denying her wow-factor. The only trouble I can foresee with her is that all of the other masters you have chosen are book 1 masters and Kirai relies heavily on a characteristic that wasn't as big in book one....thus there are less counters to it in the book 1 box sets.

The spirits are difficult to battle without some form of magic attack and not much you all will have is magical. Ramos and Raspy being the only exception. I think the Gunslingers might have 2, I know Santiago has Leadstorm but it is hard to really use well and maybe Papa with Take Ya With Me (I haven't used him in a long time so I forget) and I don't think there is anything magical in a Lilith crew.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. It may just force you to pick up some of the newer models sooner than you had planned so you can have some counters to the newer abilities. Or you may find that as the Kirai player learns her abilities she may far surpass the rest of you.