What's the best 'pound for pound' model in the game

[NeuroFire]

Tough call. I think I have to second the Ronin as wildly good. Even at out-of-faction cost, I have never been disappointed I took a Ronin.

I mainly play Guild, and there are some great models in that faction (Santiago, Watcher, and Witchlings are definitely up there) but I have to say I think the best Guild model for the cost is the Brutal Effigy. Melee Expert, Object, Magical weapon, potential to give Slow, and a Healing flip? Yes, please. It's a good thing they're Unique, or I would probably just fill a crew with them.

Now for Ressers, I think I'd have to say, again, that the Rotten Belles are pretty fantastic. However, if you decide to include totems, it has to be the Grave Spirit. I would never take a different totem with any Resser crew. It's ridiculously good, and I still find it hard to believe it only costs 1 SS. Punk Zombies also scare me, because if they can get to anything I have, they're probably going to mess it up badly.

I'm not terribly familiar with Neverborn, but I have to say the Stitched Together have given me some real headaches.

Arcanists are tricky, because a lot of the minions are so specific to the master leading them. However, I think I'd have to pick the Arachnid Swarm. It's a Melee Master that has no trouble with terrain, sits on a large base able to block movement or LoS, and it can break apart for activation control if necessary. Obviously best with Ramos, but I think it could be a pretty good threat with most masters.

[digitald3vil]

I feel the Witchling Stalkers are probably the best for me. I tend to at least throw 1 in every crew for guild. And I would seriously consider tossing them in anyone Else's crew if I could. Killjoy is another just phenomenal guy/thing/whatever. He rarely if ever fails to make his presence known. The sheer amount of havoc he can cause is phenomenal.

I have to give a special shout out though to Teddy. He's probably not by far the best or even close to the best in the game but, I just love him. He's one of the main reason I love this game. Creepy teddy bears full of huge teeth. Oh and cuddles.

[Hunter-thom]

Terror Tots... For a 3ss model that can move a long long way with the right card and dmg output with flay is pretty big.

BUT... the ability to halfway through the game without to much trouble to turn into a 10ss damage monster has to go down as the cheapest, most highest potential model in the whole game. even without grow you take them. i even take them in a kirai crew with hamlin just to grow them and turn them into a spirit.... love them.

[Hallowed1]

for me stitched togethers, I have taken out an absurd amount of higher priced models with them.

[sssk]

I can't help thinking my opponents must be playing the twins wrong. I tend to see them (particularly Lelu) as a juicy kill protogee target. I'm sure sooner or later someone will prove me wrong and mulch my entire crew with 2 models, but until then, I'm afraid they don't make my cut. Also bear in mind I don't have experience with/against a lot of stuff, so this is a list from what I've played (and please read this like the rundown on top of the pops).

5. In at number 5 we have the Resurectionists with "flesh construct". This gribbly golem hits like a ton of bricks, and when he dies, he leaves enough corpse counters to make himself new again.

4. At number 4 it's a new entry from the Resurectionists with "Von Schill" (yep, I went there). Fast, shooty, hitty, and resilient. What more do you want?

3. Brand new, and straight to number 3, it's the Arcanists with "steampunk arachnid swarm". Super agile, melee master, self healing, paralyze on a trigger, great damage, and sacrifice themselves to cause an explosion if they are suffering in a game of slaughter (and great for Mei Feng railwalking). All round useful model.

2. Up one place at number 2 this week, from only one experience against them, we have the Arcanists, with "Coryphee duet". It's just an objective grabbing, point denying, (0) action spending, blender.

1. And this week's number 1, it's a non-mover, for the 4th book running, It's the Outcasts, with "Ronin". 5SS for a model which moves like a breeze, hits like a person with a big sword, defends like an adamantium ball, and generally ruins lives wherever it goes. Even for 6SS out of faction, Ronin are well worth the points.

So there you go, that's my run down. As I say, it's only models I have experience against, but even I am quite surprised to not see any Neverborn in there. Disclaimer: I haven't played with/against Guild yet, hence their absence.

[Mordeqai]

I'm really surprised I haven't seen Izamu in this thread. He's ended up being the cornerstone of almost every game I've been in with his as a minion. Sure, he's 10SS, which is incredibly expensive, but I can't think of any composition of models adding to 10 that I'd rather take (2 Belles and a Canine, Dead Rider, etc). He can't be targeted by most spells, is arguably the scariest model to be in melee with (Riposte and Wicked), and with a Grave Spirit, can have one of the most effective damage mitigations in the game. With self healing on Severe, negating triggers, and making the opponent scared to miss him, he's almost an auto-include for me.

Of course, take this from someone who has had minimal experience outside hiring Rezzers. I just really, really love me some Izamu

[edonil]

Izamu is significantly younger than this thread, lol.

[NeuroFire]

Izamu is significantly younger than this thread, lol.

Indeed, but a pretty good nomination. I just played against it for the first time this weekend. Thing has basically no weakness. I got it down to half wounds almost exclusively with Immolating Demise. Then it healed when it got a severe flip against Sonnia. Just... yeah. Easily worth the ten stones.

[Kalkris]

Can we just say that the Hungering Darkness is a wonderful "pound-for-pound" *Master*? He's terribly resilient (he keeps coming back!) and terribly offensive (his attacks are quite scary, i mean); he comes with 2 soulstones (although that's for all Masters, so...) and even comes with another Master attached to it!

All silliness aside, because technically HD isn't a master and comes for 0 stones, I suggest that HD wins, hands down, even considering the hiring restrictions (that is, only one Master can hire it).

~Lil Kalki

[Sybarite]

Indeed, but a pretty good nomination. I just played against it for the first time this weekend. Thing has basically no weakness. I got it down to half wounds almost exclusively with Immolating Demise. Then it healed when it got a severe flip against Sonnia. Just... yeah. Easily worth the ten stones.

Yeah it seems really scary :/ and hard to take down... i'm tempted to disappearing act it and let it unbury far from the action... preferably in a building ... preferably completely without any doors. Yeah, that'd be fun. Then i woud feel safe!

[edonil]

I have to say, it does my heart good as a Resser/Ten Thunders player to hear that Izamu is so feared...not that I expect it to last long, we have some very inventive players who will find ways. But after a couple years of hearing all the complaints about 'How do I take out (insert Neverborn of choice)' it's quite nice to see the Neverborn players wondering how to take out a Resser model... *grin*

[Evilbleachman]

There are still beckoners... D:

[Sybarite]

i hate beckoners >.<

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You just ignore izamu. With an effective 11" threat and minimum amount of delivery systems he is easy to ignore. Great option very scary and extremely hard to kill. Mitigated by the fact he is slow. Executioner is far better for cheaper.

My list per faction is:

Guild hound dogs cheap effective vp earners. They are also decent in combat at cb 5. 5 as for a model I can almost always count on betting 2 vp yes please.

Belles just great models in every way.

Metal gamin hard to kill fast and great at keep other models alive.

Stitched just too good.

Student of conflict add an ap to almost ANY model amazing. Makes those slow powerful beat sticks scary... Imagine the sexecutioner with 3ap & Melee expert, threat range went from 8" to 14".

Kang/yin both amazing models.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[Fetid Strumpet]

Izamu's speed really depends on the Master he is with.

He's frighteningly quick with Yan Lo and the Soul Porter.

(I would like to point out however he is not immune to most spells, just ones that cause him to use Wp as a defender. And he doesn't have Wicked.)

[Mehter]

You just ignore izamu. With an effective 11" threat and minimum amount of delivery systems he is easy to ignore. Great option very scary and extremely hard to kill. Mitigated by the fact he is slow.

Have you not played against/with him with Yan Lo, Kirai or Nicodem? He's not slow, nor does he have a minimum amount of delivery systems.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I am not saying he is bad nor am I saying he mediocre. I think he is a great model.

You can get support models that can get him in quicker:

Soul porter best and probably most reliable

Dead rider decent choice

Mortimer not always easy to cast with mask requirement

Kirai uber fast if you can get 1 of 4 cards to flip or in hand not very reliable

All of these deliver systems offer no ability to simultaneous activate. This to me is a big deal I can drop you but I can't follow it up with the kill, without giving an opportunity to your opponent to strike (i know ressers can usually up the activation count high enough to preven this). This is what I mean by minimal systems. 11" without support is about average.

Again great model just a bit one sided. He kills like the best of them and is very hard to put down. I need a crew that scores me vp and does just Killy. Rail golem a comparable model can do a lot more to get vp than izamu.

[NeuroFire]

I would argue that a durable tank of a beatstick isn't about getting victory points, it's about denying them to your opponent. Or, if points are kill-based rather than objective based, totally about both. (I would not want to face Izamu on a Slaughter field, and I might rank him second to the Arachnid Swarm on the list of models that make Kill Protege pointless.)

[Mehter]

You're correct that Izamu might not get a lot of VPs.

But when we can just make other models that will collect VP as the game goes on, I don't see that as much of a downside.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

The armor is 10ss it should be badass, no one can argue its not. I just think he is a bit overhyped. Again great model I will run him in my resser crews. I see your point that you can bring cheap or summon cheap objective grabbers. Those cheap need to last a round to have slow fall off. Only two masters can summon with any kind of effectiveness, though he fits well with both. To me he is best utilized in a Nico crew linked with grave spirit. Keep in bolster range and this guy will take essentially ten hits to kill, trying to overcome def 7.

Correct he is probably resser's best kill protege denial. Great you are denying one scheme. Second though his 3" range allows him to be very flexible at engaging multiple models to deny objective based strategies.

Compared to dead rider at same cost. I will take rider more often because he is bit more flexible at earning vp the key to winning.

Again he is to me a great model tied for best new resser with yin, but belle takes the cake for best pound for pound resser model

[Gruesome]

The armor is 10ss it should be badass, no one can argue its not. I just think he is a bit overhyped.

...

To me he is best utilized in a Nico crew linked with grave spirit. Keep in bolster range and this guy will take essentially ten hits to kill, trying to overcome def 7.

I have only used him in 5 games so far, but as of those 5 games, I cannot call him over-hyped.

I can understand the allure of Nicodem(My sole master for over a year), but Yan Lo and Soul Porter have been absolute money with him. SP because of the crazy movement Spam-Zamu gets and Yan Lo... well... because with Yan Lo that's when I call him Spam-Zamu.

You really don't care if he gets killed. Its an ENORMOUS amount of attention that the rest of your crew did not get and Yan Lo just brings him right back.

I understand the thought that Bolster and Grave Spirit will make him into something that is more difficult to take out, but recognize that with Yan Lo, he is still pretty hard to take out AND you know he is coming back immediately. And whats worse(better) is that if he has been doing what he does best, the field is littered with Corpses and:

1. Yan Lo is becoming beastly

2. Spam-Zamu is coming back at or near full wounds and your opponent has to start all over.

3. If its the right time in the game, Soul Porter can also Soul Cage Chiaki and you just helped hand Yan Lo his personal scheme.

Until first hand experience teaches me different, Izamu has moved into contender status in my head... And for a 10SS model, that is pretty fantastic.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gruesome

[M_Ruckuss]

I too would agree that masters and Henchmen fall outside this category. If we are talking Henchmen Von Schill is simply the best 'minion' when used with many masters and Collodi is just...Blitzkrieg/awesome, allowing you to achieve SO MANY schemes and strategies.

I would also split unique and non-unique minions.

Unique:

Izamu- he is expensive but an absolute beast. Very good with Yan and Kirai.

Brutal Effigy- Has never let me or my regular guild opponent down. Such a flexible model for a 4ss investment. A staple in any NB list I take which isnt using non-doll special forces.

Grave Spirit- Why wouldn't you ever take this model?

Primordial Magic- A superb pick with most NB masters, lethal with Collodi (Disassemble anyone?!)

Widow Weaver- My 'wildcard pick'. Some will disagree, which is fair enough. Take Zoraida, Avatar, Brutal Effigy and Sue in 25ss. Summon 8 wicked dolls and a teddy. Smash stuff. Now disagree again, if you like.......

Base/non-unique minions

Stitched- One of the best models in the game offensively, even after the cuddle. Synergise with all their faction masters.

Witchlings- Possibly the most rounded base infantry in the game, especially considering the are book 1 models.

Punk Zombies- One of the best base melee units in the game.

My 2 cents...

[IDislexiaHave]

1. Von Schill (9-10ss) not only is he amazingly fast, adds ranged threat to a lot of melee heavy lists, but he can disengage for free and is super resilient. But the main reason he is my number one pick is the fact he can be hired in almost every single crew!

2. Ronin (5-6ss) thier defensive and offensiive capabilities are outstanding for a 5 point model and thus they receive the second spot on my list not to mention sebaku to gain two ss can be huge in some situations. They also can be hired in almost any crew as well and they are still good at 6ss.

3. The grave spirit (1ss) he brings so much to the table at 1pt it's almost an auto include in most resser lists.

4. The twins (14ss) the twins are amazing don't get me wrong but there are the rare occasions that I bring them to the game and think to myself ... What a waste of soulstones. But that is very rare that it happens earning them the 4th slot on my top 5.

5. I'm going to have to go with mechanical doves (2ss - 1ss in game) these things are quintessential to colleges crew along with the duet, but these puppies are awesome being able to cast magicians duel as well as discharging soulstone. Not only that they can also be used as a positive soulstone flip for any showgirl that it's near?! These little buggers are amazing!

[Trevelyan]

I'd like to give Ashes & Dust an honourable mention. You need to play Levi to get full value, and the 13ss cost is initially daunting, but for that price you get a minion who is fast, nearly indestructible, highly mobile (with SPAs), can heal in burst 3 for a 0 action, has good melee range and damage, churns out SPAs and can give you three activations per turn.

[PokiePrawn]

1. Stiched - as said before, they can do everything well and are cheap. They combo with Neverborn masters with devistating effect.

2. Twins - as said before, are melee monsters, come back with ease, heal, can do it all well and are a steal a 7 points (keep in mind Hans is 8!).

3. Night Terrors - objective mission winners that have some many other little abilities that make them great.

4. Marrionettes - another minion that can do it all and are great melee monsters. If they get the jump they can get objectives with ease and take out almost any model (s) in the game easily.

Clearly models that are cheap, are able to do it all, have at least solid attacks, and able to get objectives and have board control are important. These models do it all and then have great synergy with thier masters as well.