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[Errata Request] Pandora


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Now that we finally got that shiny bury and Dreamer errata, I'd like to express my wish for an errata on 2 of Pandoras skills that keep getting abused (yes by me too... ashes on my head)

(1) Dementia: Target ENEMY model must succeed in a Wp13 Duel before taking any Action, or the Action automatically fails.

Keeping sorrows or totems from casting Dementia on Pandora making her literally fast as a lightning bolt.

Friendly Woes in base contact with PANDORA receive +1 Wp, receive the effects of any spells affecting it, and may use its (0) Actions as if they were their own.

Keeps the Doppelganger from copiing this ability to enable any woe to use his (0)Mimic

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Keeping sorrows or totems from casting Dementia on Pandora making her literally fast as a lightning bolt.

Sorry to derail the thread, but I've seen players making Pandora cast Dementia on herself... I thought it was a valid target... is it not?

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Sorry to derail the thread, but I've seen players making Pandora cast Dementia on herself... I thought it was a valid target... is it not?

Because there's a resist involved it counts as an attack, and models may not target themselves with an attack. This is why Lilith can no longer Transposition herself.

Edit: Ninja'd.

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They aren't without cost, I understand where it can feel a bit overpowered, but each action she needs a 6 or it fails, i have seen the dementia trick back fire many times giving me the upper hand. Doppleganger is expensive, limiting mimic would be a bumper.

I am not seeing where these abilities need review. Just to point out, Pandora's perceived negative play experience is from her overall thousand cut style, and ability to generate numerous opposed duels.

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They aren't without cost, I understand where it can feel a bit overpowered, but each action she needs a 6 or it fails, i have seen the dementia trick back fire many times giving me the upper hand. Doppleganger is expensive, limiting mimic would be a bumper.

I am not seeing where these abilities need review. Just to point out, Pandora's perceived negative play experience is from her overall thousand cut style, and ability to generate numerous opposed duels.

Then you've never been hit by pacify for 7+ dmg after pandora ran over half the table ;)

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We're only talking about limiting the Mimicability of one talent - nothing that's going to break the Doppelgänger.

Pandora's style of play is what defines her - it doesn't need changing at all. The very fact she's *meant* to be death by a thousand cuts is justification for shutting off a combo which can potentially inflict 7Wd Pacifys to your entire crew every turn. Thats death by one very large bludgeon - not Pandy's style.

And the dementia "trick" goes against the spirit of both the abilities it involves. It's clearly not within the designers intent.

Mike

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Then you've never been hit by pacify for 7+ dmg after pandora ran over half the table ;)

I have been on both sides *grin*. I understand its brutal, but it is avoidable, to prevent your whole crew to be at risk. You have to spread out and use blocking terrain. This doesnt work for every crew, any crew that needs to bw close like collodi or Nico is hosed.

I can see a need overhaul in malifaux 2.0, but not to the point of a v3 for her. I think Pandora is maybe third best neverborn master which i know means she is still great, but I just don't see this change as necessary, it mitigates one of her many styles of play.

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I have been on both sides *grin*. I understand its brutal, but it is avoidable, to prevent your whole crew to be at risk. You have to spread out and use blocking terrain. This doesnt work for every crew, any crew that needs to bw close like collodi or Nico is hosed.

I can see a need overhaul in malifaux 2.0, but not to the point of a v3 for her. I think Pandora is maybe third best neverborn master which i know means she is still great, but I just don't see this change as necessary, it mitigates one of her many styles of play.

Pandora, when not copied and duplicated is not overpowered, but as the ability gets copied the power of it goes up exponentially. it reaches a point where a fresh model needing to attack Pandora won't even attempt because you know the WP duel will be SSed and they will fail and die. The only hope is win INI and take a shot, but I really don't think its a reliable counter.

On another note, if we are going to prioritize the Erratas I would focus on the following.

  1. Stiched together in Slaughter
  2. Slaughter in general (self sacking own crew is not in spirit of game)
  3. Hamelin
  4. Pandora
  5. Jack Daw (OK this is a personal thing for me.. did I mention I really hate him)

Other pet peeve rulings I'd like to see rechecked are the following, I can live with them as it is, but I feel they are not in line with the spirit of the ability.

  • Mercs hired with Zoraida ability (WP<=4) should not count as mercs (2 limit).
  • Hamelin the rat catcher should be able to be in a a Vikis/Vonschills crew and bring non-mercs.

Last Note: I like the new approach to Rules, still hoping for a Living FAQ to be published. I'm in no rush for mass changes, I'm happy with knowing there is movement, and feedback is taken.

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I'm talking about 7 in 12"... thats the whole point of using the doppelganger to mimic unhealthy relationship alowing every woe in bascontact with him (4 when he still wants to move, 6 if not) to copy emotional trauma from pandora.

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Oh yeah ok i forgot about that combo, been a while since i have messed with Pandora. This is sonething that takes time to prime and bunches up a crew. Still avoidable or managable. Flood pandora with attack early on take a few wds, but burn her stones, cause she cant take a hit. Or pop her crew. That bubble cant move until turn two. It is no more dangerous than other masters when she is light with stones. Save a high card so you stop her pacify chain.

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