Jump to content

Trapper - Anti-tech and Anti-anti-tech


Kael Hate

Recommended Posts

35SS Scrap

1x Von Schill

6x Trappers

3x SS Pool

What beats it?

What can I do to stop it from being Beaten?

In my group and games I tend to have an instict to Maximize fire and minimise losses thus I don't lose due to skill very often if ever. Its not a very dynamic list but I am trying to test Trappers and not tallented enough to play both sides of the game fairly. Give me a list and tactic that my opponent, if not an idiot, can use to waste me and force to play something different. Alos show that trappers aren't broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

35SS Scrap

1x Von Schill

6x Trappers

3x SS Pool

What beats it?

What can I do to stop it from being Beaten?

In my group and games I tend to have an instict to Maximize fire and minimise losses thus I don't lose due to skill very often if ever. Its not a very dynamic list but I am trying to test Trappers and not tallented enough to play both sides of the game fairly. Give me a list and tactic that my opponent, if not an idiot, can use to waste me and force to play something different. Alos show that trappers aren't broken.

I'm not sure, but aren't the snipers Rare or something?

I don't honestly remember.

I hope you don't get anything but Slaughter?

Your list has low mobility, and mediocre damage, even with Von Schill.

Your opponent should understand that they'll need Terrain versus snipers, but honestly all they'd have to do is single out Von schill and then pretty well AFK to win most games.

With 3 SS you won't be wasting a ton of your opponent's activations with your Slow to Die healing flip.

The problem newer players have is that you focus on strictly killing, and that's just not how Malifaux works.

Your list would honestly be fairly difficult to board, only because of how spread out they'd be.

Experienced players, however, would just take easily obtained Schemes and will more than likely be able to just evade your snipers with Terrain.

And God forbid you lose Von Schill.

I saw a similar list, it had something like 4 snipers, Von Schill, and the flamethrower guy.

It worked fine but was relatively immobile and got boarded around turn 5.

The game ended once Von Schill ran out of SS to Slow to Die heal, though. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hard to wound, or armor will also shrug at this list. Minimum damage is only one on the clockwork rifle iirc. if not, its much above that. Something to mitigate that ability would be good, taelor comes to mind, she also fills a huge beatstick option in the center.

I find that trappers vs me are fairly reliable, they can get 2 shots off a turn and still shuffle around the board. However like has been said, theres a myriad of schemes that will laugh at this list. Take a look through them and pick apart what your list would do to stop each one. When one looks tough to stop, take a look at some merc options that could help you.

Oh also.. a few strategies will be damn near unwinable for you. Supply wagon comes to mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure, but aren't the snipers Rare or something?

I don't honestly remember.

Nope.

I hope you don't get anything but Slaughter?

Your list has low mobility, and mediocre damage, even with Von Schill.

Several different Core encounters. Trappers have awesome mobility for Tresaure grabs.

Your opponent should understand that they'll need Terrain versus snipers, but honestly all they'd have to do is single out Von schill and then pretty well AFK to win most games.

With 3 SS you won't be wasting a ton of your opponent's activations with your Slow to Die healing flip.

No schemes means +4 SS

And Schills Flight means you choose who you are singling out.

Your list would honestly be fairly difficult to board, only because of how spread out they'd be.

You haven't played Trappers much. Anywhere outside 12" and not strikeable until you've gone first. With 16" range, you're getting 2 strikes straight up unless they are leaving and then still Trappers have hunter to ignore cover. Shoot the targets that haven't activated and you are in the lead.

Also, Trappers can group up. If you need to, just put 6 in a spot and cover the objective. Anyone gets close, 12 to the face brings them down.

Experienced players, however, would just take easily obtained Schemes and will more than likely be able to just evade your snipers with Terrain.

What are these schemes plz?

I saw a similar list, it had something like 4 snipers, Von Schill, and the flamethrower guy.

It worked fine but was relatively immobile and got boarded around turn 5.

Sit a trapper with the Specialist and you get mobile easy. Specialist is weaker than Trappers tho because of the limited range. In my experience that is.

Edited by Kael Hate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope.

Several different Core encounters. Trappers have awesome mobility for Tresaure grabs.

No schemes means +4 SS

And Schills Flight means you choose who you are singling out.

You haven't played Trappers much. Anywhere outside 12" and not strikeable until you've gone first. With 16" range, you're getting 2 strikes straight up unless they are leaving and then still Trappers have hunter to ignore cover. Shoot the targets that haven't activated and you are in the lead.

What are these schemes plz?

Sit a trapper with the Specialist and you get mobile easy. Specialist is weaker than Trappers tho because of the limited range. In my experience that is.

1. Yeah, its the Specialist.

2. Where is that awesome mobility coming from? 4" Wk?

3. So you don't take Schemes, but you're 5-0? Do your opponents also skip out on schemes?

So you take 7 SS Cache, so it isn't 3 as you listed. (which I'm not sure you can or not. What is Von Schills reserve? Isn't it 5?) Von Schills flight is cool, I like that he can't be locked down. My concern would be if your opponent's crew brought ranged, like the Convict Gunslinger, Lazarus, et cetera. Especially a model that can counter ranged Strikes.

4. Haha, okay. They can't be charged or shot. You can still annhilate them with spells or melee, especially with a Df of 3-4 and no real defensive capabilities. (Armor +1 is cutesy.) They do have a decent Cb of 5, but its nothing really impressive with a 1/3/5 on Dg and generally no :+fate attack flip. I guess if you're versus Ramos, Levi, C.Hoffman, Rasputina, or a couple McM lists, you'll have a :+fate on those shots, so I'll give you that. Although most of those lists have Armor or Hard to Wound, so I dunno.

5. Power ritual, hold out, break through, army of the Dead (The, I have more dudes than you, one) etc. I'd say about 80% of all schemes will be advantageous versus 6 Trappers and VS. But I don't have the patience to really list them all.

6. I can tell you and your playgroup are still fairly new because of how focal you guys are on killing each other. I'm guessing your 5-0 record with this list is because your opponents haven't really sat down and digested model strengths and weaknesses. After a couple weeks of play, come back and tell us how that record is doing. :P

Edited by Sandwich
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh also.. a few strategies will be damn near unwinable for you. Supply wagon comes to mind.

Do you allow the Supply Wagon to be Ridden?

Center Board Deployment for the 6 seems the easiest solution.

As to Hard to Wound, like Teddies etc. Is there anything that has more than 5 def and isn't a construct or beast with hard to wound?

Damage gets + flips due to the Clockwork rifle vs Beasts/Constructs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. Where is that awesome mobility coming from? 4" Wk?

Its 5 Wk with Scout.

I walk throught Any terrain faster than most opponents.

3. So you don't take Schemes, but you're 5-0? Do your opponents also skip out on schemes?

So you take 7 SS Cache, so it isn't 3 as you listed. (which I'm not sure you can or not. What is Von Schills reserve? Isn't it 5?) Von Schills flight is cool, I like that he can't be locked down. My concern would be if your crew brought ranged, like the Convict Gunslinger, Lazarus, et cetera. Especially a model that can counter ranged Strikes.

Depends. Mostly they take Kill schemes of a sort but 4 for the main usually covers it.

Schill has max 4 starting but after the list is declared, you can exceed that amount.

4. Haha, okay. They can't be charged or shot. You can still annhilate them with spells or melee, especially with a Df of 3-4 and no real defensive capabilities. (Armor +1 is cutesy.) They do have a decent Cb of 5, but its nothing really impressive with a 1/3/5 on Dg and generally no :+fate attack flip. I guess if you're versus Ramos, Levi, C.Hoffman, Rasputina, or a couple McM lists, you'll have a :+fate on those shots, so I'll give you that. Although most of those lists have Armor or Hard to Wound, so I dunno.

What spells that aren't effected by the Range strike limitations?

6. I can tell you and your playgroup are still fairly new because of how focal you guys are on killing each other. I'm guessing your 5-0 record with this list is because your opponents haven't really sat down and digested model strengths and weaknesses. After a couple weeks of play, come back and tell us how that record is doing. :P

Killing is the easiest method to achieve your gaols and deny theirs. They can't pick up loot if they have no guys left. Yes most of my opponents are not rules lawers and weak when it comes to assessing opposing figs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. Where is that awesome mobility coming from? 4" Wk?

Its 5 Wk with Scout.

I walk throught Any terrain faster than most opponents.

3. So you don't take Schemes, but you're 5-0? Do your opponents also skip out on schemes?

So you take 7 SS Cache, so it isn't 3 as you listed. (which I'm not sure you can or not. What is Von Schills reserve? Isn't it 5?) Von Schills flight is cool, I like that he can't be locked down. My concern would be if your crew brought ranged, like the Convict Gunslinger, Lazarus, et cetera. Especially a model that can counter ranged Strikes.

Depends. Mostly they take Kill schemes of a sort but 4 for the main usually covers it.

Schill has max 4 starting but after the list is declared, you can exceed that amount.

4. Haha, okay. They can't be charged or shot. You can still annhilate them with spells or melee, especially with a Df of 3-4 and no real defensive capabilities. (Armor +1 is cutesy.) They do have a decent Cb of 5, but its nothing really impressive with a 1/3/5 on Dg and generally no :+fate attack flip. I guess if you're versus Ramos, Levi, C.Hoffman, Rasputina, or a couple McM lists, you'll have a :+fate on those shots, so I'll give you that. Although most of those lists have Armor or Hard to Wound, so I dunno.

What spells that aren't effected by the Range strike limitations?

6. I can tell you and your playgroup are still fairly new because of how focal you guys are on killing each other. I'm guessing your 5-0 record with this list is because your opponents haven't really sat down and digested model strengths and weaknesses. After a couple weeks of play, come back and tell us how that record is doing. :P

Killing is the easiest method to achieve your gaols and deny theirs. They can't pick up loot if they have no guys left. Yes most of my opponents are not rules lawers and weak when it comes to assessing opposing figs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its 5 Wk with Scout.

I walk throught Any terrain faster than most opponents.

Depends. Mostly they take Kill schemes of a sort but 4 for the main usually covers it.

Schill has max 4 starting but after the list is declared, you can exceed that amount.

What spells that aren't effected by the Range strike limitations?

Killing is the easiest method to achieve your gaols and deny theirs. They can't pick up loot if they have no guys left. Yes most of my opponents are not rules lawers and weak when it comes to assessing opposing figs.

Ok, to answer your all your questions in summary.

Let your group play the game for a month or so, and the effectiveness of this list will drop as people learn how to deal with more plan intensive schemes. I play ressers and my mate plays freikorps, and he hosed me the first few times we played as we both focused on killing. When I started to work on more denial schemes and strategies our games ended up being more evenly matched. More to the point you'll realize the folly of list building in general as its not an effective way to play malifaux, every game should be absolutely tailored to your schemes, strategies and opponent

oh, and no, you cant exceed that amount. your henchman bonus is your max.

Edited by fritz the cat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh, and no, you cant exceed that amount. your henchman bonus is your max.

Page 72 of the rules seems to say otherwise.

After the encounter begins, the pool can exceed the maximum.

Can you clarify an objection, because this could be a major game changer and really force Schill to take schemes Every game lest waste SS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ridden supply wagons? That'd be a house rule I've never used.

Von Schill can take 4SS for his starting cache at most - foregoing schemes won't let you go above that.

There are certainly a few non-beast, non-construct hard to wound models. Most of them are of the undead kind and the first that comes to my own mind is Killjoy. In any case, Hard to wound 2 on models like teddy will still make it difficult to get a straight damage flip, even when their Df is 3-4. Even with a (2) focused strike you'll still need to beat the Df duel by 6 for a straight flip.

There's also the Hooded Rider - his night effect combined with your own lists reliance on sniper fire would make him a hard counter to your freikorps.

I think Trappers are mobile, but not mobile enough to claim objectives on their own. For one they need to be 12" away from other enemy models and (more critically) objectives. That means you're needing 3 Wks just to get close to it for an interact.

I don't know what makes you think Trappers are good at treasure hunt. In fact I'd say they're pretty bad. As above, they need two turns to get close enough interact, then they're walking 8" per turn, without shooting, to get it back to your deployment zone. Most good crews for Treasure hunt will get there in a turn, and one (Collodi) can get it back to their side in the same turn.

As for a slaughter mission, a trapper crew has a serious weakness against highly mobile melee crews. There are crews that should be quick enough to engage your trappers before they get a shot off. And once engaged, they'll be far harder to target.

If I was giving advice to your friends, I'd tell them that;

1. The game is not always about killing models. Ultimately it's the strategies and schemes that win you games so don't walk in front of massed Trappers unless you absolutely have to.

2. If you want to kill a trapper horde, consider taking a fast melee crew. Use your superior mobility to engage isolated elements in melee, remembering that while engaged, your opponent will have a very hard time shooting those models. Hunting knives might be decent, but so long as you can force negative flips to their damage they're not a threat.

If the trappers bunch up, all the better. Just swamp them with your own melee crew, taking advantage of companion whenever you can to engage/kill multiple models before the trapper crew can retaliate.

3. Hard to wound and armour is your friend against freikorps. Their minimum damage is pants, so anything that forces negative flips to damage is golden.

4. Von Schill is a pain in the rectum to pin down, let alone kill, but he's not quite so scary if he's having to do damage in melee rather than with his gun. Failing that, stay in cover. The trappers might ignore that cover, but Von Schill cannot.

5. Remember that you can still make melee strikes and use non-ranged (ie. those without the :ranged icon) spells and actions against trappers using From the Shadows. So they're far from invulnerable during those first few turns.

As for you Kael Hate - if your opponents are continuously losing to your trapper horde again and again, switch crews. If you keep using what they think is an invincible list (it's really not), they'll get discouraged and move onto another game system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Page 72 of the rules seems to say otherwise.

After the encounter begins, the pool can exceed the maximum.

Can you clarify an objection, because this could be a major game changer and really force Schill to take schemes Every game lest waste SS.

after the encounter begins... how are you gaining SS during the game?

other than sacrificing models using the ability to sac a model for 1ss and the -wp debuff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No schemes means +4 SS

Depends. Mostly they take Kill schemes of a sort but 4 for the main usually covers it.

Schill has max 4 starting but after the list is declared, you can exceed that amount.

This is incorrect. You are maxed out at 4 per the rules in rising powers. Also I would absolutely love it if my opponents never took schemes.

Do you allow the Supply Wagon to be Ridden?

I have no idea what this means

Center Board Deployment for the 6 seems the easiest solution.

First turn strike range for all my riders. Thanks!

As to Hard to Wound, like Teddies etc. Is there anything that has more than 5 def and isn't a construct or beast with hard to wound?

I think my hard to wound 2 Armor 2 regenerating 3 Dead Rider with attached grave spirit is plenty hard to kill. I don’t need higher than 5df.

Damage gets + flips due to the Clockwork rifle vs Beasts/Constructs.

My dead rider is still laughing. Hooded rider is about to join in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't pick the same scheme twice. I can't find the specific ruling on it but if nothing else, the assassinate and bodyguard schemes (pg 100) specify that they can be taken more than once, indicating that it's an exception rather than the norm.

Page 72 of the rules seems to say otherwise.

After the encounter begins, the pool can exceed the maximum.

Can you clarify an objection, because this could be a major game changer and really force Schill to take schemes Every game lest waste SS.

P73:

After all crews are deployed, all players re-shuffle their fate decks and start the encounter.

Note that the encounter begins AFTER revealing schemes post-deployment. So you can't drop schemes to exceed your starting cache.

And seriously - don't take the same two schemes every game. It's not challenging and you'll never grow as a player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

P73:

After all crews are deployed, all players re-shuffle their fate decks and start the encounter.

Note that the encounter begins AFTER revealing schemes post-deployment. So you can't drop schemes to exceed your starting cache.

Also to further back this up on page 35 of Rising Powers it states that "The Maximum size of a henchmans pool is equal to the henchman's reserve."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Snip...

As for you Kael Hate - if your opponents are continuously losing to your trapper horde again and again, switch crews. If you keep using what they think is an invincible list (it's really not), they'll get discouraged and move onto another game system.

Thanx for the ideas, I'll pass them on.

For the Note.

This isn't my normal list but an expression of the power level of Trapper vs Hans/Nino etc and what puts Trappers in balance with the rest of Malifaux.

I like Hans by theme but seems rather lame mechanically.

Personally I think the Perdita Gang can do everything this list can do but better, but then again, I'm mercenary and outcast at heart. Hate me because I'm not like you.

My Normal List

Schill

2x Trapper (probably swap one for a Gunslinger in the future because he is Rare 1 and thats close enough to Unique and shooty)

Hans

Laz

Jack

2x SS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What spells that aren't effected by the Range strike limitations?

All that don't have :ranged icon.

10" movement with scout is nothing special. It's slightly above average. Fast models can move up to 20~30" a turn and usually ignore terrain (and we're speaking about regular movement, not some placement tricks).

When I faced Trappers, I used Transposition to great success... and with Showgirls I simply have sent Cassandra after one (15" move with free strike at the end, after which he was locked in melee, so he couldn't shot). Sure I wouldn't be that successful against 5 of them, but every spam has a weakness.

The biggest one I see is the terrain. You realize of course that a recommended Malifaux table has up from low 20s up to 30ish pieces of terrain on it, more or less evenly spread?

Once you set up the table properly, you'll find out shooting in Malifaux is more or less utility. There are crews that can make it work, but for most crews it is merely a way to block some areas or force the opponent to take another route.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Page 72 of the rules seems to say otherwise.

After the encounter begins, the pool can exceed the maximum.

Can you clarify an objection, because this could be a major game changer and really force Schill to take schemes Every game lest waste SS.

You´re right about that page 72.

though it seems you didn´t understand that encounter setup. You have to go through all steps (steps 1 to 8; pages 62 to 72). All that happens BEFORE the encounter starts. Read page 73: "After all crews are deployed, players re-shuffle their Fate Decks and start the Encounter."

To me it´s very well written when the Encounter starts.

Page 72 is adressed to those rules who allow for additional SS gain during the game.

---

To your list: Is it possible that you play without enough terrain? Malifaux needs lots of terrain to properly work. If you´ve got enough terrain on the board, it is easy to hide while still aiming for strategies or shemes.

It seems to me you´re heavily relying on your From the Shadows rule. Reread that rule. Than read Reclaim Malifaux scheme (a Neverborn one). Stake a Claim and Sabotage both work against this rule too.

A Line in the Sand, Claim Jump, Plant Evidence (!!!) strategies all hose your deployment rule to some degree, Plant Evidence totally negates it how I understand that rule.

Then have a look at the Watcher (Guild). He totally negates your special deployment rule. Guild Austringers are also a bane of your list as well as Stitched Togethers, Steamborg Executioner, Hooded Rider.

Any crew that is able to out-activate you will rule your crew. Somer´s Mosquitos and Hamelin´s Ratcatchers come to mind.

It seems to me that your wins heavily depend on some lucky matchups.

On the other hand there seem to be some Strategies / Shemes that work to your crews strengths.

Overall I like your list, simply because I like heavily themed lists.

ZK

Edited by Zwergenkrieger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

at the end of the day, I dont believe trappers can make or break a list. However, they are EXCELLENT support pieces, able to have excellent threat vectors with their shooting to harass the enemy, aswell as being able to move while shooting with their trigger. Which is a big advantage over similar models who for the most part have to sacrifice either mobility or their offensive assets to do both. Quite a nice package for only 5 points, but at the end of the day, its still a support model.

My opponent makes great use of them to go after similar models in my own army as they tend to be fragile.

and @ Twisted metal, yes..the dead rider is an absolute unadulterated beast. Well costed at 10 points (plus the ubiquitus linked grave spirit for 1 point)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

at the end of the day, I dont believe trappers can make or break a list. However, they are EXCELLENT support pieces, able to have excellent threat vectors with their shooting to harass the enemy, aswell as being able to move while shooting with their trigger.

Yes, that´s why I was thinking about a crew with 2 Trappers led by Marcus. I think there is some synergy offered by such a crew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest one I see is the terrain. You realize of course that a recommended Malifaux table has up from low 20s up to 30ish pieces of terrain on it, more or less evenly spread?

We follow the 2-4 pieces of 3"x3" terrain per sqr Foot.

And then allow any additional decleraations or added extra terrain. Like How think/thin trees are, how deep water is etc.

The Shop I play at has tonnes of terrain from Mordheim, Necromunda, 40k, Warmachine/Hordes games so nearly every bit of board is covered. Only thing really lacking is really high elevation cliffs/mountains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information