Going to start a Leviticus Crew

[Adran]

And there it is - I haven't even pinned the models yet and I'm being accused of playing ANOTHER broken crew

Hi, problems with that from what I can see -

1. SS Miner takes the wounds from Melee Master at the end of the turn so if it's buried before then (i.e. 1AP, Melee Master and then bury) it won't take any damage throughout the game and will keep Melee Master.

2. Whereas Burn Out happens at the end of your activation so if you're not buried end of your first activation you drop to 1 wound, and if you're buried at the end of your first activation to avoid it there is no unbury mechanism so you waste the second activation.

Haven't got the rule book to hand but I'm pretty sure after a day of theoryfauxing yesterday that this is right.

Re bringing the watcher instead, with my idea you're only in effect paying 1ss to give Bette (+1) Fast (3 for a Stolen - the two you get back) which seems like a good trade off if she can keep burying herself to avoid losing it.

Few errors.

Firstly you've got the damage timings from Burn out and Melee master the wrong way round.

Burn out is in the closing phase, getting melee master is at the end of the activation.

Not sure on bete being fast when she un-buries. She'll keep the other bonus' but she will have already activated and gained the extra AP.

I was sure it wouldn't work until I read her V2 Card which does contain a bizarre line about until the start closing phase.

Even If I'm wrong, you're using her fast action to bury her each time, so not really gaining a huge amount (but keeping the :crows which might be a huge amount if you can use her each turn)

[magicpockets]

Few errors.

Firstly you've got the damage timings from Burn out and Melee master the wrong way round.

Burn out is in the closing phase, getting melee master is at the end of the activation.

Okay, cool I remember where my issue was now - if you give it reactivate and melee master you're going to take 2 wounds at the end of your first activation each turn from Melee Master, which you don't get if you bury at the end of your first turn. That's why I decided to drop the idea of chasing reactivate, and therefore Alyce.

Plus I'm not keen on leaving the miner exposed for longer than I have to though which is why I wanted to attack and bury asap rather than haging around for another activation.

Not sure on bete being fast when she un-buries. She'll keep the other bonus' but she will have already activated and gained the extra AP.

I was sure it wouldn't work until I read her V2 Card which does contain a bizarre line about until the start closing phase.

Even If I'm wrong, you're using her fast action to bury her each time, so not really gaining a huge amount (but keeping the :crows which might be a huge amount if you can use her each turn)

(+1) Fast ends at the end of the models activation (discussed a few times from the search I just did) so if Bette is buried before then it won't end as effects don't resolve whilst you are buried.

Plus the idea of burying her is to keep the :crows and Blessings and enable her to pop up in different places each turn.

[Twisted Metal]

(+1) Fast ends at the end of the models activation (discussed a few times from the search I just did) so if Bette is buried before then it won't end as effects don't resolve whilst you are buried.

Actually yeah now that I think about it I don’t think the fast would remain on her for the exact reason you mentioned. A models activation ends as soon as its buried and the results are applied. That’s different from effects being removed at the end close phase. This is the exact reason why the Soul Stone Miner still takes the wounds for the melee master even if it has buries its self.

[magicpockets]

Actually yeah now that I think about it I don’t think the fast would remain on her for the exact reason you mentioned. A models activation ends as soon as its buried and the results are applied. That’s different from effects being removed at the end close phase. This is the exact reason why the Soul Stone Miner still takes the wounds for the melee master even if it has buries its self.

Okay, the way I see it logically, to both bury Bette and the SS Miner you need to do a (1) action. By default the (1) action needs to be fully resolved before the models activation can end (an activation can't end whilst the model is still activated). Therefore the model is buried "at the end of its activation" so effects remain -

1. Declare (1) bury action

2. Bury Model

3. Finish (1) bury action

4. End Activation

5. Resolve effects which happen on end of activation

6. Model is buried so effects don't resolve

Edited November 29, 2011 by magicpockets

[magicpockets]

Played my first 30ss game last night against Lucious. We did a few things wrong (I destroyed evidence with a SPA and he took an 8ss cache) but really got a feel for how brutal he's going to be. Few stand out "ahh" moments -

1. He'd killed all of my SPAs so I had 3x scrap counters in play. Between Alyce and Levi I managed to turn all three back into SPAs and turn his Governer's Proxy into an SPA in one turn, wlak/drag them down the board and summon a Desolation Engine 15" (ish) inches away in Lucious' face. Take away is that the difference between scrap counters and a Desolation engine is very small

2. Death's Lessons is brilliant for getting spells off. Example, I had a 4, 2 and 12 on top and put the 4 and 12 on top. Cast Entropic Unmaking (or whatever it's called) with the 4, cheated a 13 and then my ss was (surprise surprise) the 12 - that's very very powerful.

3. Necropunks are great for objective grabbing, but leap is impossible to cast without the :masks on the Ca stat

4. Rusty Alyce isn't very useful for 8ss

Hopefully will play again this week (and have more models arriving) so will get a better feel for him.

[Twisted Metal]

Hmm interesting. I just seems strange that the SS mines overdrive rule is worded the way it is if it could easily be circumvented by something as simple as a one action. This would also make the miner practically unkillable and it will appear, carry out its three attacks, and then bury again without repercussions or casting costs.

[Adran]

Fast says

This model recieves 1 additional general action point during its current or next activation, which ever comes first.

I've performed a search, but short of reading all the minutia is those threads, I can't see a ruling which says that a fast model can keep fast if it is buried.

I understand what you are saying, as I can't get fast several times during my turn, once I've got it once, further effects don't give me extra AP. But it feels wrong that fast should apply its effect multiple times just because I've been buried.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that burying a model ends its activation, and the end of activation effects will happen before the buried model is removed from play, but can't prove that that is correct.

[Twisted Metal]

He'd killed all of my SPAs so I had 3x scrap counters in play. Between Alyce and Levi I managed to turn all three back into SPAs and turn his Governer's Proxy into an SPA in one turn, wlak/drag them down the board and summon a Desolation Engine 15" (ish) inches away in Lucious' face. Take away is that the difference between scrap counters and a Desolation engine is very small

What was the sequence of spells you used to accomplish this? It seems like an awful lot to pull off with in one sequence. Im not saying you did it wrong but with your first game its is understandable if you did. I know I made plenty of mistakes in this department my first few games with him. Here are some points to remember while using levi to summon SPA.

Entropic transformation is the only spell of Levi’s that can turn scrap into a SPA and its going to cost you three wounds. This means he can only cast it twice in one turn. With ET the SPA is summoned within six inches of Levi.

Necrotic unmaking can be used to make SPA but the SPA is summoned into base contact with the killed model. This causes the occasional hiccup because it then needs to be picked up by its buddies instead of starting in the diamond formation.

Yes Rusty can two summon of them but at the cost of 2/3 of your hand.

Another essential Levi tip is NEVER FORGET his trigger. When casting any spell with a tome such as unnatural wasting and entropic transformation you draw a card.

Death's Lessons is brilliant for getting spells off. Example, I had a 4, 2 and 12 on top and put the 4 and 12 on top. Cast Entropic Unmaking (or whatever it's called) with the 4, cheated a 13 and then my ss was (surprise surprise) the 12 - that's very very powerful.

Yes it is. It can also be used to stack you hand for the next turn or loading the deck for incomming attacks.

Necropunks are great for objective grabbing, but leap is impossible to cast without the on the Ca stat

I agree on this point as well. I would also consider watchers. They allow further card manipulation which levi loves. Have a standard move which gers you further than the the punks, and denies trappers from setting up within snipping range of your waifs.

Rusty Alyce isn't very useful for 8ss

Im so so on her. In most circumstances I think there are better things to spend 8 ss on but every now and then in run a crew that really calls for her. The ability to filter your starting hand is nice andI have punched her for cards before when I was low. This help when running Jack Daw and my hand is getting short. She also tends to surprise me every now and then. For instance I have gotten a triple head shot during rapis fire and inflicted some serious depletion of SS and cards on my opponent. Overall I think she is worth 8 ss but only in very specific roles.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Twisted Metal

[magicpockets]

Re the summoning -

1. Alyce turned one couter into a SPA and put it next to the governer's proxy (within 6 inches)

2. Canine Remains hit governers proxy for 2wds

3. Levi did ET on the two scrap counters and put them towards the GovProxy

4. Levi killed the GovProxy and turned him into a SPA (was it Necrotic Unmaking??)

5. They walked/dragged each other enroute to Luciosus as I'd planned their placement to do that

[magicpockets]

Fast says

This model recieves 1 additional general action point during its current or next activation, which ever comes first.

I've performed a search, but short of reading all the minutia is those threads, I can't see a ruling which says that a fast model can keep fast if it is buried.

I understand what you are saying, as I can't get fast several times during my turn, once I've got it once, further effects don't give me extra AP. But it feels wrong that fast should apply its effect multiple times just because I've been buried.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that burying a model ends its activation, and the end of activation effects will happen before the buried model is removed from play, but can't prove that that is correct.

It was ruled that a model gaining a trait such as Slow counts as having that effect printed on it's card for the entire activation. Therefore depending on how the bury/effect resolution sequence resolves the model would keep (+1) Fast "on it's card" when it is unburied the next turn.

[Buck Dog]

4. Rusty Alyce isn't very useful for 8ss

Yeah, I find her a little underwhelming at times too.

Her card mechanic is nice but I only ever really find it useful on the first turn, as after that Levi is summoned up field leaving her behind. She then spends most of the game playing catch up and occasionally shooting Levi in the back of the head when I don't get his spell casting order quite right..... all in all, not a great use of 8ss.

Then again, there are those times that you just HAVE to summon one more SPA and up pops Alyce and saves the day !

[magicpockets]

To be fair if I didn't have her I wouldn't have got my Desolation Engine out

[Twisted Metal]

Re the summoning -

1. Alyce turned one couter into a SPA and put it next to the governer's proxy (within 6 inches)

2. Canine Remains hit governers proxy for 2wds

3. Levi did ET on the two scrap counters and put them towards the GovProxy

4. Levi killed the GovProxy and turned him into a SPA (was it Necrotic Unmaking??)

5. They walked/dragged each other enroute to Luciosus as I'd planned their placement to do that

Yup that would do it. Thats some luck of cards to pull it off with out the use of death lessons and losing two from Rusty.

[magicpockets]

Actually yeah now that I think about it I don’t think the fast would remain on her for the exact reason you mentioned. A models activation ends as soon as its buried and the results are applied. That’s different from effects being removed at the end close phase. This is the exact reason why the Soul Stone Miner still takes the wounds for the melee master even if it has buries its self.

Fast says

This model recieves 1 additional general action point during its current or next activation, which ever comes first.

I've performed a search, but short of reading all the minutia is those threads, I can't see a ruling which says that a fast model can keep fast if it is buried.

I understand what you are saying, as I can't get fast several times during my turn, once I've got it once, further effects don't give me extra AP. But it feels wrong that fast should apply its effect multiple times just because I've been buried.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that burying a model ends its activation, and the end of activation effects will happen before the buried model is removed from play, but can't prove that that is correct.

Ruled. Model is buried, then activation ends, effects can't resolve -

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=342678&postcount=5

[Twisted Metal]

Huzzah!! A victory for all Levi players.

[magicpockets]

Huzzah!! A victory for all Levi players.

Yep, SS Miner keeps Melee Master and avoid wounds, and Bette keeps (+1) Fast - I'll break Levi yet

[Twisted Metal]

Hmm interesting. I just seems strange that the SS mines overdrive rule is worded the way it is if it could easily be circumvented by something as simple as a one action. This would also make the miner practically unkillable and it will appear, carry out its three attacks, and then bury again without repercussions or casting costs.

I hate to quote myself but after reading the rule book (original idea huh) I discovered that if you bring the SS miner into play it has to be done before the init flip. This radically changes how I use him. Before hand myself and everyone else in my group thought he came in before the first model activates but after the init flip. I just wanted to point this out in case others were making the same mistake.

[magicpockets]

^^That's a good catch, you def need to be ready for losing initiative

[magicpockets]

Update: Just ordered a Guardian and Collodis box set. Will update with progress in this or the Levi vs Dreamer thread when I test it out

[Dink_Meeker]

Hi. Im thinking in start a Leveticus crew. I have Nicodem and McMourning so i have a lot of undeads and also some constructs of Guild (watcher,Ryle). Its a hard master?

But Im thinking far away, about Levi+Collodi ¿would be that usefull? I like a lot the style vision but i cant know if its too expensive and actually all my crew will be Collodi and marionettes and leveticus with her hollows.

[magicpockets]

For certain schemes I think Collodi is great, but not found him to be an auto include just yet. But you're right, it's 16ss for Collodi and dolls so a heavy investment (and it uses your special forces slot)

[Joel]

I've been trying to get my head around a levi/collodi list. I cant figure out what other minions he should hire. Rusty Alice seems like a good fit, but the costs!

What do you use?

[magicpockets]

In 35ss Collodi, Marionettes and a Canine Remains will cost 18ss, so you have 17ss left. With that I like picking from -

Bette and a Stolen (12ss)

Killjoy with optional Wicked Doll or Watcher delivery (11ss/14ss)

Dead Rider and Grave Spirit (11ss)

4x SPAs (12ss)

With the remaining ss for Levi and maybe Collodi.

[easternheretic]

I thought the Grave Spirit is a Rezzie's totem?

Won't you need a Rezzie's leader to hire it in a Levi list?

Perhaps if you hired Molly, you can then hire the Grave Spirit. She counts as a Rezzie leader doesn't she? I know Levi can hire her to his crew.

I too ma just starting out with Levi, and have been trying out the vanilla Levi list with SPA's, Alice and the Canine remains. I've rounded the crew off with Bete.

So far results have all been close loses. The Lack of mobility is the biggest problem so far, so I might be trying some Rotten Belles or the watcher in the future. Bete always makes back her points, and the DE is very violent but squishy to the extreme.

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers.

Edited March 21, 2012 by easternheretic

[Kadeton]

I thought the Grave Spirit is a Rezzie's totem?

Won't you need a Rezzie's leader to hire it in a Levi list?

Levi can hire any model from any faction as long as it's Undead, Construct or Soulless.