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'Fast(1)' and Steampunk Arachnids


Baron|Roboto

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Folks,

First off I'll put to paper the definition for 'Fast':

"This model receives 1 additional general AP during its current or next activation"

Here's a scenario for you:

Student of Conflict applies 'Assist' to a Steampunk Arachnid swarm.

Performing its 4 actions (2 base, 2 melee master), it then uses the 1 Fast activation to perform 'Scatter'.

Reading the rules here, it says "Any effects on this model are applied to each Steampink Arachnid".

Since this affect has now been applied to new 3 summoned Steampunk arachnids - by my reading, this now means that they all have 'Fast', which will counteract the 'Slow' from being summoned, giving each of them 2 APs to play with...

Is my understanding correct? Because, if so, wow.

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I might be wrong, but my understanding is that the moment you activate the swarm, the "Fast" effect is applied/converted into +1 AP. So, by the time you scatter, you no longer have Fast...

I've never read anywhere about effects being 'translated' into APs etc; the wording of the rules are quite esplicit on how long the effect lasts for. At the point of use - it reads to me as simply 'If you have Fast, you have an extra general AP in your current or next activation (P34, small Rulebook), and the effect lasts until the end of the start closing phase ('Assist' - Student of Conflict)

Under your interpretation, if I granted Fast to a unit that got too close to an Alp - as long as I've used that additional AP, the Alp's ability which puts wounds on units with Fast cannot be applied, despite the rule stating that this effect with last until the start closing phase...

If you can show me some wording that demonstrates that when I use this AP, the fast effect/attribute is instantly removed, it would help me a great deal.

Edited by Baron|Roboto
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Under your interpretation, if I granted Fast to a unit that got too close to an Alp - as long as I've used that additional AP, the Alp's ability which puts wounds on units with Fast cannot be applied, despite the rule stating that this effect with last until the start closing phase...

Fast does not last until start close phase, it lasts until their current or next activation, which ever happens first. So if you grant fast to a model and that model activates it will no longer have fast when the Alps are near it, that is correct.

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Fast does not last until start close phase, it lasts until their current or next activation, which ever happens first. So if you grant fast to a model and that model activates it will no longer have fast when the Alps are near it, that is correct.

I think there's confusion between 'Fast' the effect, and the general AP it provides:

As the rulebook states on P34, the extra AP is for either the current or next Activation - but as per the ability 'Assist' which temporaly grants Fast(1) to a model, this model will still has the effect 'Fast' for the purposes of Yawning until the end of the start closing phase.

It says it in black and white that the model retains 'Fast' until the end of the start closing phase, whereby there is nowhere that states that you loose 'Fast' as soon as you use the AP or end your activation.

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Baron where is this black and white you speak of? J/k

Any read that section over again you will see you are only looking at a small part and applying broadly. It says effect last until start of closing phase or when mentioned. Fast ends when used, and as stated in fast on current or next activation. Fast can span past closing phase if models next activation phase is the next turn.

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Baron where is this black and white you speak of? J/k

Any read that section over again you will see you are only looking at a small part and applying broadly. It says effect last until start of closing phase or when mentioned. Fast ends when used, and as stated in fast on current or next activation. Fast can span past closing phase if models next activation phase is the next turn.

Aargh, sorry I can't see anything about 'Fast' ending when used - all I can see on this topic is the entry is the two line explaination of Fast on P34, but this just explains how it provides an AP for the current or next activation; is there another reference that I'm missing on this?

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It is confusing when applied AP that is when used. The closing phase portion of fast is to say this version of fast doesn't Carey to next activation if next activation is next turn. Search I think assist and reactivate in this forum. I believe the clarity was provided there, reactivating a model with assist did nor give it fast for both activations in a turn just the first after assist.

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Agree 100% with you there - no debate here as to whether you can use the additional AP if you re-activate. The rules are clear that Fast grants you just that AP for only the current or next activation; but using that AP doesn't remove 'Fast' from your effects, it just means you've used the AP it granted.

Come the closing phase, Fast is then removed from the model's characteristics, as it's written.

I'll do a quick search in case there's something there I've missed...

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http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20680&highlight=Student+Conflict

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25354&highlight=fast+reactivate&page=2

Looking at the threads I see on this, it seems in agreement that Fast from Assist lasts until the end closing phase, while providing 1 general AP for the current or next activation (whichever comes first)...

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I'm speculating here, so bear with me.

I believe you can have the Fast effect remain on you even after you've activated, it's just not doing much unless there are Alps involved. As previously stated it would disappear in the closing phase like any other effect.

As for transferring it to summoned spiders, that would surely depend on if you already used the +1 Fast AP with the swarm. If the swarm had already used Fast in it's activation, the individual spiders would pick up a "used up" Fast effect, which would do the same thing :- protect them from Alps but not grant them an extra AP.

I could be miles out, but that's how I read it.

Mike

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As for transferring it to summoned spiders, that would surely depend on if you already used the +1 Fast AP with the swarm. If the swarm had already used Fast in it's activation, the individual spiders would pick up a "used up" Fast effect, which would do the same thing :- protect them from Alps but not grant them an extra AP.

I could be miles out, but that's how I read it.

Mike

If you're applying Fast to a newly summoned model, you're also now applying the additional ap on the current or next activation...

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