Absolution Black Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 As others have said, why shoud the game need to be feminist? Shouldn't the game be judged on its ability to play well, have strong characters, great fluff and the potential to play it so many ways? In this sense Malifaux has got the winning formula. And to be honest, i think most if not all the female 'leads', show very strong, independent women. I wouldn't say they were role models for todays society (I mean, I wouldn't want my wife to suddenly declare an interest for shootin' 'Borners and wearing a cowboy hat) but the roles they hold in the malifaux world are pivotal. Lady J, Sonnia and Perdita are all basically running branches of the Guild. No-one has said they have got there because they may be showing a bit of cleavage. It is assumed from their fluff that they have had to work to get where they are now. They hold the respect of everyone, male and female. The fact their models and artwork has a sexy edge is obviously a seller, but if we are talking about the 'characters' I can't see too many women having a problem. To be honest i would still choose Lady J as my main crew even if she wore a turtleneck sweater! The lady just rocks! Different people have differing views. We should respect that even if we don't agree. Signing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolution Black Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 You are, perhaps unintentionally, trying to mix multiple stances into a single one. A woman is free to dress however she desires, barring any dress codes and/or public decency laws (and, in those cases, the issue is legality, not morality). A miniature war game, on the other hand, gets creepy if all the women are half-naked. But I think that is what everyone is trying to argue. The women AREN'T all half naked! LAdy J and Perdita show a little cleavage (no big deal). Sonnia is virtually covered up. Lilith has a bit of cleavage and a bit of thigh. Pandora shows a bit of leg. Colette and the showgirls are flasing a little bit of leg etc etc. I hardly think half naked covers this! Yes, I think if the characters all ran around with their norks out (zoraida style) the game would be seen as a joke, and not a little creepy. But cleavage and leg is not the end of the world. Ask most women if they are fine with showing either, and the majority would say yes. And possibly, it is to attract male attention, but I bet several say it makes them feel sexy and empowered. But I thought your original point was that you wouldn't want kids exposed to the type of minis in Malifaux? So you would be fine with a real woman standing next to the gaming table in a teeny bikini, but would have problems with the minis on the table, if kids were around? I think kids know the difference between real life and 'games'. Or at least they should, but i guess that is down to us as parents, and thats a whole different debate!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poko Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why on earth shouldn't it? Because even feminists (in europe at least) avoid the word "feminist" like a plague because of how negative connotations it holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 . A miniature war game, on the other hand, gets creepy if all the women are half-naked. Define half naked. And then with that definition prove to me that 100%(hell I will even give you 75%) of the woman in the game fit your description Then as a counter point use that same definition on the men in the game and see what percent fit that. If you think its creepy then don't play the game, but it seems like the majority of people here and buying the game have no problem with it. I have female players in my group who don't mind the models. My wife has no problem with the sexy models in the game(She isn't to keen on letting my 3 year old son see the monsters in the book like Killjoy, but the blind chick with a little cleavage is fine). I've never once seen a parent shield there eyes from the Malifaux display at my FLGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Erm hold on one tick. I have been called a feminist, and i personally think this game IS JUST A GAME!!! i know bad hayzel. At the end of the day Malifaux isn't degrading women, to me they are doing the opposite. Making them powerful. Look at Pandora! She is a beast when in battle! Lady Justice?! awesome. Just because they want to show off their assets, like guys like to show off their pecs doesnt mean its a bad thing. And as Sketch says since when did malifaux state its "feminist friendly" This post should cease now i think. Just wanted bring up, a women's opinion back on this, remember she might be crazy, she's the advage gaming girl, if it doesn't upset her, then we as men have no right to complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 But I think that is what everyone is trying to argue. The women AREN'T all half naked! LAdy J and Perdita show a little cleavage (no big deal). Sonnia is virtually covered up. Lilith has a bit of cleavage and a bit of thigh. Pandora shows a bit of leg. Colette and the showgirls are flasing a little bit of leg etc etc. Did I say that the Malifaux girls are half-naked? No. Specifically, the type of "creepy" army I would be talking about there would be something like a Slaanesh army using the Diaz Daemonettes and one of the non-GW Keeper of Secrets models. The Malifaux models don't compare, but I do see where a parent could get upset. But I thought your original point was that you wouldn't want kids exposed to the type of minis in Malifaux? So you would be fine with a real woman standing next to the gaming table in a teeny bikini, but would have problems with the minis on the table, if kids were around? Actually, my point was that children could come into the game store and a parent may be offended, not that I could care less what a kid sees. I'm not a parent, it's not my job to watch children (anymore--thank goodness I got out of that particular field of work). Furthermore, if a woman went into a store with a teensy-weensy, teeny-weeny, yellow polka dot bikini on, that's her choice and any reactions would be directed her way. If I was sitting at a table pushing around little inappropriate models, the reactions would be sent my way. Two completely different targets there, two completely different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just wanted bring up, a women's opinion back on this, remember she might be crazy, she's the advage gaming girl, if it doesn't upset her, then we as men have no right to complain Fallacy. One woman being okay with something does not mean that it is okay with all women, or that men have no right to discuss things. I know you're all about Hayzel, but she does not have the final say in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poko Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 the type of "creepy" army I would be talking about there would be something like a Slaanesh army using the Diaz Daemonettes and one of the non-GW Keeper of Secrets models. Terribly creepy indeed, just that no one knows why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Fallacy. One woman being okay with something does not mean that it is okay with all women, or that men have no right to discuss things. I know you're all about Hayzel, but she does not have the final say in this. Only more say than you She is a girl And you are, as far as I now not, yes some of the women show a little boob, but look at the front of any women's magazine and they're cover the front page with idealist views on women that hell of a lot worse than Malifaux Why Because women like sexy women Why Who knows, perhaps they just read the gossip Society these days has sexy women everywhere, that's just part of life and not it's going change because you want it to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Only more say than you She is a girl And you are, as far as I now not, Again, this is a logical fallacy. One person's opinion is not weighted more due to their gender, nor can it be discounted. The only thing can can be stated is that Hayzel does not mind any of the miniatures in Malifaux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katcher Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Gee, again, had enough. So for JPRoth1980 : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Gee, again, had enough. So for JPRoth1980 : Couldn't of put it better myself Noob by name Noob by nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Wow everyone come on stop! This is way way way to far out of hand and not exactly what this forum is about! I suggest everyone take a step back and cool your heals and hands before you come back to this. This is spiraling into another back and forth rage post. Stop with the name calling to guys and gals. This is just out of control. A healthy discussion of this is fine surely, but the resorting to acidic retorts and even direct insults is to much. So please, take a step back and cool off before you get yourselves in trouble. Everyone is getting way to hot headed and heated under the collar about this. Your all entitled to your opinions and to voice them, but you don't have to do it like this nor should you. Edited February 25, 2011 by karn987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry, it's been a bad day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry, it's been a bad day It's alright, but just think before you post everyone. We don't need nor really want this kind of out of control argument on here right? So just to reiterate: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katcher Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Red Panda cuteness pauze.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXhayzelXxx Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 haha! CUTE!!!! XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Sorry, it's been a bad day Apology accepted. Sorry if I said anything to set you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXhayzelXxx Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 *coughs* so whats everyone having for tea?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 It's alright, but just think before you post everyone. We don't need nor really want this kind of out of control argument on here right? So just to reiterate: Dd you force that storm trooper to dress like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Red Panda cuteness pauze.. Red pandas my true weekness haha! CUTE!!!! XD Uber cute Apology accepted. Sorry if I said anything to set you off. No problem *coughs* so whats everyone having for tea?? Pizza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katcher Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Chmm, Tea....my second water. Usually Earl grey with milk or PaiMuTan (White tea) for normal day drinking, maté with home made caramel when I lack sweet.Milky Oolong is another choice as well as it is Puerh. But that´s propably off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I put up this question on facebook. The general opinion of men was, oh maybe it's a bit sexist but it's a wargame and that's normal. The general female opinion, was Wow Lady J looks cool. I think this supports my belief which is men are not entirely sure what they should think about this kind of thing in a post-feminist world and so immediately start hedging their comments. The women don't really care. I know that I've always been quite open with my beliefs on these type of things, I don't make assumptions about what other people think and don't change my views to pacify them. I've never had an issue with a feminist or been declared a misogynist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Hey all, I think this has been a great thread, but we've hit that point where it's now circled around on itself 3-4 times, and people are getting frustrated and frustration is leading to personal attacks. And of course, we don't like personal attacks. This is why I'm closing this thread down. Feel free to take any points from it which you might feel deserve continued discussions and give them their own threads, but leave the attacks behind. Also remember that with subjects such as this, that people are all colored by their own background, experiences, society around them, and to really change their minds on how they view the world would require a bit more than a 3-4 paragraph forum post on the subject by someone with no more an authority on the subject than they have. But of course people still get frustrated when their forum posts don't change opinions. Basically, accept other peoples opinions, accept they see the world different than you, and accept that probably no one is going to be changing their minds once they have them made up on the subject because of a thread like this. Enjoy discussing the subject with people of different opinions, as there is so much more value in that than just sitting around and everyone agreeing. That is all Eric Edited February 25, 2011 by EricJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts